J. Williams & LSO, The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK AUDIOPHILE EDITION - Restored & Remastered Score (Released) — Page 4

ABC,

Just dropping by to let you know how much I'm looking forward to this.  I've been listening to your OEv3 on/off since New Years and it's quality stuff indeed.  If this can trump that, then I will be very grateful.

I'm especially looking forward to CD3.  I practically wore those records out back in the day, and it will be outstanding to have a high quality version of it again!

Keep up the good work, my friend.

ABC said:

EyeShotFirst said:

Need any colour correction on that booklet? LOL

You may be surprised if I told you what is my real area for living... So thank you but you won't have too much to complain about this I think :).  I'm not here to spend my most precious skills in vain however, but only to share the fruit of an aside hobby ! ;) 

Edit: btw, I have to thank you again for your first comments in the thread, what I'll do in a next post. You'll understand soon...

I definitely see some quality work on your part.

EmpireSB said:

I've heard some alternate sound clips that were used in the 70mm cut of the film such as the "You're lucky you don't taste very good" line, but I'm sure it captured from a source other than the 70mm cut.

As far as the quality goes for the 70mm... what I was asking was if the same soundtrack masters were used for both the 70mm cut of the film and 35mm cut of the film?  Why was the 35mm version edited differently than the 70mm version?  The only reason I don't like the "Departure of Boba Fett" scene in the 35mm cut is because the music cue was hacked up and it ended abruptly.  That always bothered me, but it is nice to watch the scene without music, at least the latter part of it.

I'm pretty sure they used the same master, I would be very surprised if they did more than one master edit of the score, I'm not an expert on how this things worked but maybe you are being confused by previous posts in this thread for an example: "The 35mm magnetic film mixes". As I understand it, it was common in those days to record the music to 35mm magnetic film as well as tape, some would run tape and film, others were done only on film but I've read that the mag film was a better quality choice. On STAR WARS it was recorded directly to magnetic film during the sessions this was not done on Empire, instead 8-track & 24-track tapes were made, (so I'm not confusing you, the 6-track is derived from the 8-track with track 8 containing a 50Hz tone used for film sync and track 7 empty for avoidance of cross-talk between the tone and music tracks) and once the master edits was done on Empire the 6-channel film mixes was transferred to 35mm magnetic film for conformance with the picture. Sorry but that's all the info I have.

Why the 35mm cut of the film's score was edited differently I don't know. (besides the ending scenes that were recut) I'm not so sure it was until I hear some proof, because I find it strange that those musical differences in the SE was tracked in the 35mm cut when they had much more time to work on that release, but who knows? Lucas has done some bad choices in the years since then ;)

msycamore said:

I'm pretty sure they used the same master, I would be very surprised if they did more than one master edit of the score.

Agreed. It wouldn' t make sense unless there was a new "enhancing" technology to explore.

The only "mix" word creates confusion making a few people think it has been redone (it seems).

This project as its roots here... The "OE" was made undirectly available for months from here... If you try to find feedbacks in the thread nevertheless, there are not easy to find. That explains the "bizarre" discussions we had one or two pages ago...

Note that there are no more feedbacks besides for a set that was yet quite a piece of work (excepted the one from Savage here a few posts before and the one from Jaxon I allowed me to quote before).

I must say I love the alternate mix on "The Rebels Escape" with its louder layer, both are very good, but I think this one is the winner, I'm starting to see what you mean by saying CD3 is the real gem ;) Powerful & dynamic! Somehow I missed that sample before. Thank you.

msycamore said:

I must say I love the alternate mix on "The Rebels Escape" with its louder layer, both are very good, but I think this one is the winner...

 

 The most difficult part of the work is the final step: to choose the versions that fit the most together (and the more natural) in a way your eyes won't pop out from their orbit while listening to the score...

Among the many versions I have for "The Rebels Escape" actually, four of them are the winners and this alternate mix with louder layer, though it sounds quite good (and more !) as an isolated track, doesn't sound as natural as it seems next to the two lower layered mixes I have. It sounds a bit too much like if you listened to it through a huge horn or a seashell, notably because of the extension of the general echo through the RSO mix with its reverb superposed to the different way I found to retrieve/render somehow the "missing informations" on the film mix. All this is a question of tight equilibrium.

So from the samples, this is the most unsure track to be used as this in the set. But I don't know yet...

Just to let you know, "Escape from Bespin" will be finally used as it is in the samples (no question anymore of a further balance "correction") with the difference I plan to manage the invasive low hum in it's final segment.

... More samples to come soon...

ABC said:

msycamore said:

I must say I love the alternate mix on "The Rebels Escape" with its louder layer, both are very good, but I think this one is the winner...

 

 The most difficult part of the work is the final step: to choose the versions that fit the most together (and the more natural) in a way your eyes won't pop out from their orbit while listening to the score...

Among the many versions I have for "The Rebels Escape" actually, four of them are the winners and this alternate mix with louder layer, though it sounds quite good (and more !) as an isolated track, doesn't sound as natural as it seems next to the two lower layered mixes I have. It sounds a bit too much like if you listened to it through a huge horn or a seashell, notably because of the extension of the general echo through the RSO mix with its reverb superposed to the different way I found to retrieve/render somehow the "missing informations" on the film mix. All this is a question of tight equilibrium.

So from the samples, this is the most unsure track to be used as this in the set. But I don't know yet...

Oh, I really should compare them again then, maybe I was just fooled by the new powerful layer, but as you know by now, I've listened more to the CD1 version now and you heard what I said about that one;)

msycamore said:

Oh, I really should compare them again then, maybe I was just fooled by the new powerful layer

Don't worry, it happened to me too. What strikes you at first may reveal not as good on the long.

I still have one of the OE sets on my desktop, but I can't remember which version it is! :p The date is November 30, 2009, so would that be version 2 or 3? I think it's 3. At any rate, this Audiophile Edition is the one I'm looking forward to the most! Great project!

P.S. That's a Mussorgsky LP in your avatar, isn't it? :)

Ripplin said:

I still have one of the OE sets on my desktop, but I can't remember which version it is! :p The date is November 30, 2009, so would that be version 2 or 3? I think it's 3. At any rate, this Audiophile Edition is the one I'm looking forward to the most! Great project!

P.S. That's a Mussorgsky LP in your avatar, isn't it? :)

Well, I thought I was the only one who appreciated Pictures At An Exhibition. That is the best recording ever, and Claudio Abbado delivers.

EyeShotFirst said:

Ripplin said:

I still have one of the OE sets on my desktop, but I can't remember which version it is! :p The date is November 30, 2009, so would that be version 2 or 3? I think it's 3. At any rate, this Audiophile Edition is the one I'm looking forward to the most! Great project!

P.S. That's a Mussorgsky LP in your avatar, isn't it? :)

Well, I thought I was the only one who appreciated Pictures At An Exhibition. That is the best recording ever, and Claudio Abbado delivers.

I noticed your classic LP avatar afterwards. Good stuff.

Ripplin said:

... would that be version 2 or 3? I think it's 3.

It's 2.

At any rate, this Audiophile Edition is the one I'm looking forward to the most! Great project!

You're welcome ! ;)

I plan to reup a bunch of updated samples in a very few days, notably with confrontation against the other releases.

P.S. That's a Mussorgsky LP in your avatar, isn't it? :)

Yes it was... A few hours ago ! We agree on this one with Eyeshotfirst :)

Nice to read you again guys.

The main difference between the previous OEv.2 and OEv.3 was about the choices for EQ's... v3 was mostly rounder. But no big editing difference. 

Well, taking my time for the new ESB set was not too much a luxury. I've gone deeper into the balance matter for many tracks of the Anthology and SE and found out (now for sure) that it is one major fault that spoils the sound of many of these cues, and that fixed balances allow you to find most accurate EQ's.

I also corrected all the balances on the "Rebel Fleet/End Titles" and it now really seems to be played in one stroke (sample will be updated soon).

Not mentionning the huge improvement thanks to the use of the whole RSO LP... Don't want to make you starving guys but I bet you may be stunned by the new layers. Msycamore has heard the half of it and admited he didn't bielieve since the first OE the whole sound could become that "great" (... So far I didn't believe myself !). ;)

Besides, I wouldn't have dared to use the word of "audiophile" if it was not the case.

That sounds more awesome than hot wings and nachos.

ABC said:

I also corrected all the balances on the "Rebel Fleet/End Titles" and it now really seems to be played in one stroke (sample will be updated soon).

Looking forward to hearing that.  After listening to that track with headphones a few days ago, it was pretty apparent different sources were used to compile it.  Especially so when the Imperial March kicks in.  It wasn't very noticeable through floor speakers, though.  If you've got that all smoothed out, it should be fantastic!

Savage said:

... it was pretty apparent different sources were used to compile it.  Especially so when the Imperial March kicks in.

 I, myself, used the "same" source (but of course the recording doesn't).

That is apparent on all releases (thought quite hidden with noise perhaps) ;) ... So, yep. I'd be glad you let me know if I made a miracle. Beside, you'll be able to compare for yourself with the original.

Perhaps I haven't listened to the scores enough on headphones, me thinks! :)

What I was referring to was when the Imperial March transitions to the cue taken from the RSO CD Imperial March track during the credits sequence.  To me, it was a noticeable transition.  After comparing the two now (your edit and the finale on the SE set) what stands out to me is the fact that the original cue (from the SE soundtrack) lacks snare drums in the background starting around 3:51, while your edit from the Imperial March standalone track does have snares.

I've listened to this credits sequence about a million times over the years (it is, after all, the best medley in the series!), so I guess that's why it just seemed off.

Still, I can't wait for this release!

I also wanted to check if the snares are present on any other versions of the finale.  As far as I can tell, they're only present on the vinyl album.  The snares aren't present (or drowned out to be nearly inaudible, if that's possible) on the SE, the anthology, or the 1980 or 2004 version of the movie itself.  I don't have the RSO CD handy to compare at this moment.  So it would seem that the vinyl album mix may be in error.  A shock, to be sure!

Please Savage, read about the two versions of the End Title in the remixing details... (And note that I mentionned both film & album version).

Also we had 3 pages of discussion about this in the OE thread, and my last post about it is here.

EDIT:

 

 22. The Rebel Fleet / Finale (Film Version)
· Same as track 13, expended with intro from "Yoda And The Force", the "Imperial March" is replaced here with its alternate from the film version End Titles (Anthology bonus track).