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J. Williams & LSO, The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK AUDIOPHILE EDITION - Restored & Remastered Score (Released) — Page 2

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ABC, there seems to be problems with a few links to the new samples:(

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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msycamore said:

ABC, there seems to be problems with a few links to the new samples:(

 

 I know that Megaup use to check the sources of the downloads and don't like forums too much... Try something: copy and paste the URL in your nagigator field. Someone who couldn't download the OE through PM links finally tried this way and it worked.

Otherwise I suggest you wait and try again later as it seems they're not really dead.

... That reminds me I have to remove "Escape from Bespin" from the samples.

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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To my ears the speed/pitch seems wrong in your latest "The Duel". I'm sorry to say this but I prefer your previous one.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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 (Edited)

"The Revelation" and "The Imperial March" sounds very natural and good. Great job, thanks for posting them!

I'm just wondering (maybe a dumb question, as I don't have the knowledge about this sort of thing) but when you say you have recentered the stereo on some tracks don't you degrade the quality of the audiofile if you work with the previous equalized one?

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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msycamore said:

To my ears the speed/pitch seems wrong in your latest "The Duel". I'm sorry to say this but I prefer your previous one.

 Possible you ears are too much used to the previous version. I'll check against the movie, it'll be easy to know and to have it back if needed.

To notice, "Escape From Bespin" has had a light stereo correction since the sample (left channel up of about 1db).

I'm just wondering (maybe a dumb question, as I don't have the knowledge about this sort of thing) but when you say you have recentered the stereo on some tracks don't you degrade the quality of the audiofile if you work with the previous equalized one?

The "recentering" consists in lifting the volume of the lower channel. I don't degrade the quality of the track, nor its sound but indeed most of the time the left and right channels don't give exactly the same results through EQ because of their orchestration. I took back a lot of tracks from the beginning recently thinking I would have better results if I recentered the stereo first and I found out that it was not necessarily the case, so no worries.

However there may be particular cases: "Darth Vader's Trap" has its right channel completely f..ked up with over modulation and clipping, and is around 4 to 6db louder than it should on some parts (next to 1 or 2db for other tracks). It also misses medium frequencies on the same channel and I had to re-EQ it isolately. So yes, for this one I had to take it back fom the beginning.

The difference then is that the OE version of this track was equalized segment by segment considering the background hiss difference where in fact the real problem from wich was due these differences was the balance for each of these parts. The new one has been corrected first and equalized as a whole track and there's no more background noise difference... It's sounds the same everywhere.

Here are for comparison my best version of it, next to the OE3 version. It can't sound "excellent" but it gives a better idea of what it may give through an uncorrupted recording I think. The cut at the end of the track will stay as I did it on the AE version, not to melt the awesome track that follows it:

DARTH VADER'S TRAP (new try/ OE3 comparison)

... if you work with the previous equalized one?

A precision on this: I don't work from the OE3 equalized tracks, but most of the time from my first mixings: A basic equalization meant to remove the more obvious abuses or noise. And also I can balance a track and keep my EQ settings as filters that are not definitively applyed on the track.

However if I balance a track that is definitive what is rare, the lifting is generally too low to really affect the final result, or when it does it always gives a better one, as for "The Duel".

... But you're right to ask, one must pay attention to these little details.

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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 (Edited)

As a sidenote, you don't have idea how much tracks from the Anthology are corrupted and clipped ! The "Recording the Star Wars Saga" doc doesn't give the whole statement about ESB. Not mentionning the convertion of the Tomlinson mixes as 2-channel stereo tracks: did you ever notice there's almost all the orchestra sounding on the left with mostly isolated instruments and a far echo of the bunch on the right...? (Looks like it's mainly the left channel wich sounds saturated, wich is clipped and recorded too strong, as it looks to be mostly this one containing the 50hz tone for the film synchro too).

Then I can't sincerely tell if my stereo corrections on the Anthology are a real "restoration", or just a compensation. Anyway, sure it's better and sounds fair.

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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ABC said:

The "recentering" consists in lifting the volume of the lower channel. I don't degrade the quality of the track, nor its sound but indeed most of the time the left and right channels don't give exactly the same results through EQ because of their orchestration. I took back a lot of tracks from the beginning recently thinking I would have better results if I recentered the stereo first and I found out that it was not necessarily the case, so no worries.

A precision on this: I don't work from the OE3 equalized tracks, but most of the time from my first mixings: A basic equalization meant to remove the more obvious abuses or noise. And also I can balance a track and keep my EQ settings as filters that are not definitively applyed on the track.

However if I balance a track that is definitive what is rare, the lifting is generally too low to really affect the final result, or when it does it always gives a better one, as for "The Duel".

... But you're right to ask, one must pay attention to these little details.

 

Oh, now I understand what you mean by "recentering". Sorry, I was a little confused over what this exactly meant, thanks for your detailed explanation. I listenened again to your new samples with higher volume as I couldn't do that earlier or I would have woked up the neighbours, and I can't believe this is actually sourced from the official CD's, it sounds so different! in a really good way. This score is in good hands ;)

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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ABC said:

"Darth Vader's Trap" has its right channel completely f..ked up with over modulation and clipping, and is around 4 to 6db louder than it should on some parts (next to 1 or 2db for other tracks). It also misses medium frequencies on the same channel and I had to re-EQ it isolately. So yes, for this one I had to take it back fom the beginning.

The difference then is that the OE version of this track was equalized segment by segment considering the background hiss difference where in fact the real problem from wich was due these differences was the balance for each of these parts. The new one has been corrected first and equalized as a whole track and there's no more background noise difference... It's sounds the same everywhere.

Yes, I've noticed the problems with that track, this must really be a headache for you! But I think you have done some wonders to it already.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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msycamore said:

Yes, I've noticed the problems with that track, this must really be a headache for you! But I think you have done some wonders to it already.

 Thanks. However I only corrected the stereo on "carbon Freeze" and "Departure" on the previous OE versions, I haven't dared touching "Darth Vader's Trap" before as I wasn't aware enough of these problems.

If you listen the comparison sample posted above your left ear will be pleased to discover what is to be heard from this side of the orchestra. It really changes the cue.

... And yes, that's a headache to go back because you realise you missed something that you haven't caught before. You have no idea ! ;) ... I think some tracks have seen more than 30 versions since the beginning !

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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ABC said:

msycamore said:

Yes, I've noticed the problems with that track, this must really be a headache for you! But I think you have done some wonders to it already.

 Thanks. However I only corrected the stereo on "carbon Freeze" and "Departure" on the previous OE versions, I haven't dared touching "Darth Vader's Trap" before as I wasn't aware enough of these problems.

If you listen the comparison sample posted above your left ear will be pleased to discover what is to be heard from this side of the orchestra. It really changes the cue.

... And yes, that's a headache to go back because you realise you missed something that you haven't caught before. You have no idea ! ;) ... I think some tracks have seen more than 30 versions since the beginning !

Ahh, sorry for my sloppy writing;) my comment was directed to the sample above wich I think shows quite an improvement. But you're right, I have not exactly noticed what the real problem with this track actually was before, (just the clipping and dynamic range) I understand that you're working with the best one but do the SE version of this track suffers from exactly the same problems? They're perhaps from the same source, just curious.

30 versions! Well, this shows what an incredible job you are doing to this score and it will be very interesting to hear the difference when you are finished with it. Again, thanks for saving this score! and for the album you sent me. :) 

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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ABC said:

As a sidenote, you don't have idea how much tracks from the Anthology are corrupted and clipped ! The "Recording the Star Wars Saga" doc doesn't give the whole statement about ESB.

I'm sure it doesn't, but it is a very interesting and well written document, but you have lived with this score quite some time now, so you are also an expert here;) Have you got any reply from him?

ABC said:

Not mentionning the convertion of the Tomlinson mixes as 2-channel stereo tracks: did you ever notice there's almost all the orchestra sounding on the left with mostly isolated instruments and a far echo of the bunch on the right...? (Looks like it's mainly the left channel wich sounds saturated, wich is clipped and recorded too strong, as it looks to be mostly this one containing the 50hz tone for the film synchro too).

Then I can't sincerely tell if my stereo corrections on the Anthology are a real "restoration", or just a compensation. Anyway, sure it's better and sounds fair.

No, I haven't noticed this. Interesting, there seems to be no end to how many f***ups they've done to this score!

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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msycamore said:

.... do the SE version of this track suffers from exactly the same problems?

 Yes, it is the exact same transfer, and it is the transfer wich is missed up. Besides we both know that they didn't use any settings (almost) to improve the tracks on the Anthology.

I tryed e.v.e.r.y. thing you can imagine, like layering the SE tracks on the Anthology to borrow some frequencies wich were rendered in an other way. The SE looks to be a little better on a few points from time to time but in the end they have the same blocked sound and potential.

... Again, thanks for saving this score!

CD3 is the real gem on this set, and having listened to some classical and world music next to it two days ago, it left nothing to be desired next to them. Actually its sonicality blew them all. I mean: it's more than a salvage ! ;)

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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msycamore said:

I'm sure it doesn't, but it is a very interesting and well written document, but you have lived with this score quite some time now, so you are also an expert here;) Have you got any reply from him?

 

I think "experts" don't like each other if I may say :) And the guy looks to have such an involvement in analysing those recordings, their history and their problems that I'm convinced he won't pay attention to my work.

True that technically I wouldn't bring him nothing new, but having listened to his sample EQ's for "the Asteroid Field" I'm affraid he missed something more important than technical knowledge and appreciation.

... But for what is to call me an expert, just know that I'm unable to talk with a sound enginer so my vision for sound is personal. I have - justly - more a visual or aesthetic way to work with the sound, and I had to learn a lot of things for ESB I may forget soon enough ! I'm just working a piece of Art. My most precious skill for that is observation.

No, I haven't noticed this. Interesting, there seems to be no end to how many f***ups they've done to this score!

 Well, it could have been worst. To notice the guys who made the Anthology haven't been helped very much about this it seems.

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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ABC said:

msycamore said:

To my ears the speed/pitch seems wrong in your latest "The Duel". I'm sorry to say this but I prefer your previous one.

 Possible you ears are too much used to the previous version. I'll check against the movie, it'll be easy to know and to have it back if needed.

 That may actually be the case, if so I'm ashamed ;)

ABC said:

 Yes, it is the exact same transfer, and it is the transfer wich is missed up. Besides we both know that they didn't use any settings (almost) to improve the tracks on the Anthology.

I tryed e.v.e.r.y. thing you can imagine, like layering the SE tracks on the Anthology to borrow some frequencies wich were rendered in an other way. The SE looks to be a little better on a few points from time to time but in the end they have the same blocked sound and potential.

I see, when I read what you're doing I'm glad you don't have given up on this, as long as you enjoy what you're doing and it's not starting to feel like a work for you...

ABC said:

 CD3 is the real gem on this set, and having listened to some classical and world music next to it two days ago, it left nothing to be desired next to them. Actually its sonicality blew them all. I mean: it's more than a salvage ! ;)

...but I guess this is what keeps you going, I can imagine the end results are rewarding :)

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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ABC said:

... But for what is to call me an expert, just know that I'm unable to talk with a sound enginer so my vision for sound is personal. I have - justly - more a visual or aesthetic way to work with the sound, and I had to learn a lot of things for ESB I may forget soon enough ! I'm just working a piece of Art. My most precious skill for that is observation.

And what an observation that is:) Enough with the flattery! When is this set finished?;)

Ok, a serious question, how much of this set do you consider is finished? I can't wait to hear some more...

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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msycamore said:

Ok, a serious question, how much of this set do you consider is finished? I can't wait to hear some more...

 Aha. I'm actually in the final selection (for best EQ's) of the tracks for CD3. I think I have all needed for CD1. CD2 is the most difficult: I still have to choose the final versions for tracks from 4 to 7 (and even 8, Darth Vader's Trap), and that's all.

But these last tracks have such a sound that it requires a lot of concentration to catch the subtleties where there are not so many, and I must say this part of the score is a bit exhausting to listen too much... It's like: "how do you want it corrupted ? That way, or the other ?". But I don't want to choose and close the case just to get rid of that. That 's why it takes a lot of time, not mentionning the booklet I fill from time to time.

I'll send you CD3 when ready.

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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ABC said:

I'll send you CD3 when ready.

So this is not for everyone I take it?

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dark_jedi said:

So this is not for everyone I take it?

 Msycamore follows the work closely and also shared some precious infos and stuff that maked me go forward into some details, or wich actually help to present this work the best way possible. His participation makes him for sure part of it. I just meant I was ready to upload CD3 isolately for him before the entire set to be actualised... It was in some way also a question, because knowing him as far as I can do I bet he'll tell me he prefers to wait until the whole set is ready.

So you got it, this one proposition was especially for him.

You shouldn't worry you know... Even though you look interested in only two tracks ! :)

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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you know you love to provoke don't you,so I am ONLY interested in 2 tracks,well so you know I also torrented some sets for you and helped share your work,or did you not know this,or refuse to see this,either way,forget I even asked,I was asked if I was going to torrent this version for people,well I can't if I don't have it,so I will just guide all PM's straight to you and you can deal with it then,since you are so personable.

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dark_jedi said:

you know you love to provoke don't you... so I am ONLY interested in 2 tracks...

 Eeerrr... I admit I like to provoke a bit, but hey come on... That was a joke => :)

Looks like you love when it smells fire too.

... well so you know I also torrented some sets for you and helped share your work,or did you not know this,or refuse to see this....

Well sincerely I just don't realise... Thanks for these people should I say ?

People grab but don't feedback anyway (reminds me of the last one I saw you help). A member named "Beatho" has shared the "OT ST Salvage" for months and told me he had a lot of requests each weeks. The number of feedbacks from those who had the set through him is:

............................................. 1 !

___

I think I've done an exceptional job on this score this time and well... my poor friend, if it stays unknown I really don't care ! I would even say it finally deserves to be rare. If we could find gems everywhere they wouldn't have anymore value.

But don't misunderstand me, and please: don't make me say what I haven't say...

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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whatever all that means,cool keep it rare,better that way,but I really don't understand why the open thread and discussion if it was meant to be private for you and sycamore,what a waste of space.

you really should add that to your topic title that it is "private" and not to be shared.

now I can stop looking in on this.

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dark_jedi said:

you really should add that to your topic title that it is "private" and not to be shared.

ABC said:

But don't misunderstand me, and please: don't make me say what I haven't say...

... Again !

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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You're trying to make me react to your pessimistic inputs, still worrying to have an answer to your first question in this thread, am I right ? I still don't have one and I really don't care for now.

Then instead of drawing your darkest conclusions based on your emotivity and giving this thread a bitter feeling, why don't you just relax and be patient ? The full set won't be ready before weeks anyway.

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.