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Give Lucas A Run For His Money...

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I'm kind of interested in hearing some ideas...

I've read plenty of stuff saying that the PT sucked and could have been better....so let's hear some ideas.
Get serious about it. Write a short treatment for each episode and post it, if you dare. Even better, if you think you can improve the OT, post that too (espcially ROTJ).

Even if you have just some little ideas, let's hear them.

Here's mine for ROTS:

I think it would have worked better if Palpatine would have been working Anakin up and then putting him in that position on the Jedi Council like he did, then naturally tempted Anakin with the power to save Padme...only to secretly inform the Jedi about Anakin's marriage to Padme and her pregnancy, of course. Anakin would have been expelled from the Jedi and then is some sort of incident, Padme would have been killed and it would have looked to Anakin that the Jedi did it. Naturally, he would have gone ape shit on the Jedi, turned to the dark side and killed everyone. But we see that Yoda actually made off with Padme to Dagobah, she has the twins, dies in childbirth. Yoda gives Leia to Organa and then after the big duel, Obi goes to Dagobah where Yoda gives him Luke and tells him to go to Tatooine.

I left out a bunch of stuff, but you get the idea. Doesn't have to be perfect, but give it a shot. I think we'll find that there was infinitely better ideas than what Lucas did.

And if anyone want to post a totally reworked storyline of the whole saga....I would love to read it.
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Funny. I actually just started working on a treatment of "my version" of Episode One. It's completely different from Lucas' ideas, and uses only the OT as a reference.

I'll post some for you once I get a little deeper into it.

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Sounds good...that's what I want to hear.

I seriously think that there are fan versions out there that could lay waste to anything Lucas could have done.
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well out with the megadork that is within...

Me and a couple of other former SW geek(no longer are due to the PT) friends of mine have been over time formulating a story arc for how we would have liked the PT to be. Maybe in time they will be written down and fleshed out, but i dont see that happening until retirement...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/Kingsama/samasig.jpg
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Same here... we might have a race on our hands, gentlemen!
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Well I think George missed a big opportunity with Jar-Jar. In TPM he comes across as a bumbling fool and everyone hates him. In AotC after being put in the senate, Jar-Jar was going to have a few lines which gave the appearance that he was learning. Then he proposed the bill in the Senate which gave Palpatine emergency powers. Now imagine if in RotS, Jar-Jar is a token in the meetings of Palpatine in regards to the Clone War actions and behind the scenes Senate activites. Now Palpatine most likely still thinks Jar-Jar is the fool everyone in the audience thinks he is, well let's say Jar-Jar either walks into a meeting he shouldn't have (Sid/Grevious) or he connects the dots with some of Palpatines statements and Jar-Jar figures out that Palpatine is the Sith Lord. Jar-Jar immediately heads for the Jedi Temple to inform them, but Palpatine learns of this and sends his new apprentice to silence the annoying Gungan. Imagine the audience reaction to getting the death they wanted but also realizing that the doom of the jedi is near because of it. (you want the jedi to survive but for that to happen Jar-Jar needs to complete his mission...)

You could have replaced the Grevious wheel bike/Boga chase sequence with a short Jar-Jar running to the Temple as the newly crowned DV hunts him down. When catching up to Jar-Jar, DV calms down the excited Gungan, convincing him that what he believes is not true, then with a heavy heart, kills one of his oldest friends. Then we move on to the temple and the murder of the younglings.

What this sequence would also add to the story is that it would give Qui-Gon a little more credibility. He saw something in that Gungan (as did George) and as the PT evolved so would Jar-Jar.

George was so close, i'm surprised he didn't come up with something like that.
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Originally posted by: none
Well I think George missed a big opportunity with Jar-Jar. In TPM he comes across as a bumbling fool and everyone hates him. In AotC after being put in the senate, Jar-Jar was going to have a few lines which gave the appearance that he was learning. Then he proposed the bill in the Senate which gave Palpatine emergency powers. Now imagine if in RotS, Jar-Jar is a token in the meetings of Palpatine in regards to the Clone War actions and behind the scenes Senate activites. Now Palpatine most likely still thinks Jar-Jar is the fool everyone in the audience thinks he is, well let's say Jar-Jar either walks into a meeting he shouldn't have (Sid/Grevious) or he connects the dots with some of Palpatines statements and Jar-Jar figures out that Palpatine is the Sith Lord. Jar-Jar immediately heads for the Jedi Temple to inform them, but Palpatine learns of this and sends his new apprentice to silence the annoying Gungan. Imagine the audience reaction to getting the death they wanted but also realizing that the doom of the jedi is near because of it. (you want the jedi to survive but for that to happen Jar-Jar needs to complete his mission...)

You could have replaced the Grevious wheel bike/Boga chase sequence with a short Jar-Jar running to the Temple as the newly crowned DV hunts him down. When catching up to Jar-Jar, DV calms down the excited Gungan, convincing him that what he believes is not true, then with a heavy heart, kills one of his oldest friends. Then we move on to the temple and the murder of the younglings.

What this sequence would also add to the story is that it would give Qui-Gon a little more credibility. He saw something in that Gungan (as did George) and as the PT evolved so would Jar-Jar.

George was so close, i'm surprised he didn't come up with something like that.
none


OH. MY. GOD. Now THAT is a unique idea that could have brought the whole concept of TPM up a few notches. Awesome idea dude! Seriously.
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Why didn't the red guards fight? Actually fight? What a missed opportunity. Tarkin should have been given a MUCH larger role. All I keep thinking is this should have been EP.II and "II" should have been EP.I. Giving the PT a chance to build on something interesting, instead of all this chaotic, character-switching, boring bullshit.
"I fart in your general direction!"
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These are just some ideas I've accumulated over the years since the release of TPM, and only related to TPM and AOTC. Not all of these are my suggestions/ideas, I just happen to agree with them:

1.) As far as Hayden and Jake go, if you realize that they are going to struggle with many lines, you should cut out all unnecessary lines from these two. The less said by Anakin the better. I think a more minimalist style to Anakin's dialogue would allow the character to blend in better with Darth Vader, who was always a calculating and efficient with his word choice (examples: "I find your lack of faith disturbing" to Motti, "Perhaps you think you're being treated unfairly?" to Lando, and "The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" to Jerjerrod). Anakin definitey has way too much dialogue in the prequels. If Anakin were more of a minor character in the Phantom Menace and a man of fewer words, he could have been much more effective. I think Obi-Wan should be the hero of all three prequel trilogies, and the scripts should have been written to reflect this. First scene on the chopping block (one of many): "It's working, it's working!" No kid actor could have delivered this line well.

2.) Instead of putting Anakin in the cockpit of the Naboo starfighter in Phantom Menace, Anakin should have stayed with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon to watch them fight Darth Maul. This change would have removed the utter lack of seriousness for the space portions of the battle and would have furthered Anakin's character development, by having him witness a traumatic event and be exposed to both sides of the Force. I actually expected this to happen in the movie. Lines like "No one can kill a Jedi ... I wish that were so" and "It's a hard life" from Qui-Gon hint that Anakin will be exposed to these challenges within the movie. The scene would not have required any dialogue from Anakin, but merely a few telling glances from Qui-Gon and Maul. Instead he goes off and destroys the Federation battleships and delivers the line "This is podracing". Horrible stuff. Luke's attack on the Death Star was heroic and required maturity, but Anakin's attack on the Federation ships is idiotic and impossibly lucky, not heroic.

3.) Remove the Midi-Chlorians. Qui-Gon's senses should be proof enough that Anakin is powerful, we don't need a blood test. I don't mind the Prophecy, but it would have been much better without the Midi-chlorian explanation. This change to the lore also contradicts the view of the Force shown by Obi-Wan in ANH and Yoda in Empire.

We would much rather have Qui-Gon's explanation of the Force be consistent with the explanations given by Obi-Wan in A New Hope and Yoda in Empire, but with his character's own personal touches. Here are their explanations of the Force, which is not unexplainable magic, as most people seem to understand it.

Obi-Wan : "The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."

Obi-Wan's explanation seems to imply that the Force is universal. Midi-chlorians do not create the ability to use the Force, but other living things create it. Any being can use the Force with enough training, focus, and patience. Specifically, your ability to use the Force stems from your mind, not from the number of symbiotic organisms within your body.

Yoda: "Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."

Notice how Yoda specifically made the contrast between matter and humanity. Yoda says that humans are more than just the sum of their cells. Explaining one's ability to use the Force through the results of a blood test means that the Force does boil down to 'crude matter'. He also repeats Obi-Wan's assertion that all life creates the Force.

The Midi-Chlorian explanation in Episode I specifically refutes the explanations of the Force given in the original two Star Wars films. In the OT, we could say that Yoda is the wisest and most powerful Jedi because of his faith, dedication, focus, patience, intelligence, etc. In the PT, we say that Yoda and Anakin are the two most powerful Jedi because they were born with the highest number of Midi-chlorians in their body. This is almost a Social Darwinist theory of the Force.

Qui-Gon says that without Midi-chlorians, life would not be possible and we would have no knowledge of the Force. Therefore, all living things possess midi-chlorians, and all living things should have access to the Force.

The film would have been superior if the midi-chlorians were never mentioned, though. The Force definitely has changed since Obi-Wan described it in Episode IV (Lucas was trying to make a positive change, but hurt the films instead). In Episode IV, Obi-Wan comments: "When I first met your father, I was amazed at how strongly the Force was with him." In Episode I, this comment seems to have changed to "I was amazed at how high his midi-chlorian count was." The descriptions from the original trilogy imply that your ability to use the Force is limited only by the strength of your mind and will. Yoda makes it abundantly clear that NO PHYSICAL LIMITATIONS can be placed on the Force, including a Midi-chlorian count. In the PT, this is no longer the case.

Lucas has treated his audience like complete idiots throughout the prequels. The audience understands exactly what Lucas is TRYING to do with the Midi-chlorians (all too well), but it does not have the desired effect. This is a clear-cut example of one of the main problems with the PT: Lucas explaining the story through expository dialogue instead of demonstrating things through action. (ie- Lucas tells us Anakin is strong with the Force through prolonged dialogue, while Luke demonstrates his strength through actions; Anakin and Padme tell us their feelings in words, while Han and Leia demonstrate their feelings through actions and expressions; etc.) These examples disrespect the intelligence of the audience rather than overestimate it.

To put things this way: Which explanation of the Force do you prefer? A New Hope, Empire, or Phantom Menace?

To put things another way: No one would ever complain about Yoda's sublime description of the Force in Empire, but very many people complain about Qui-Gon's explanation to Anakin. There is a definite reason why.

Of course, that's forgetting that Darth Vader redeemed himself, killed the Emperor and returned to Anakin Skywalker when Luke lifted his helmet. This naturally led to the poignant scene at the end of ROTJ where the newly-redeemed Anakin takes his rightful place with the other Jedi.

This recent change is illogical, lame, and obviously done so that the crappy Lucas Prequels can insert even more control over the superior OT. Lucas continually tries to get the Prequel scenes and story into the OT, like some ugly guy hanging out with a pretty boy, hoping some of the charm will rub off.

4.) Shorten the podrace sequence, specifically by removing the pre-race introductions, the awful broadcasters, and Jar-Jar's cheering and by not having Anakin's podracer stall out at the beginning of the race. I cringe every time I watch the beginning of the Podrace. The final lap is decent and is all that was required to make the race seem dramatic and dangerous. The first two laps remove the tension. I also think Jabba should be more menacing in this scene, perhaps by having him laugh every time a racer dies.

5.) I am not a pure Jar-Jar hater like most peopl
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Good points. By the way, where IS the guy who played Jango Fett from? Korea? The Dominican Republic?
Don't forget: with Lacuna, you can forget.
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Originally posted by: Seiji

Undoubtedly, Boba is going to kill Mace Windu.


Undoubtedly?
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Originally posted by: nadcraker
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Originally posted by: Seiji

Undoubtedly, Boba is going to kill Mace Windu.


Undoubtedly?


As I said, it was accumulated overs the years, it's not just my opinion but others that made some interesting points. I just agree with most of it and thought I'd share it since the topic was created. It has been stored on my computer for quite some time. Sorry for being lazy, I should of re-read it again to edit some stuff out.

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Originally posted by: Seiji
The Midi-Chlorian explanation in Episode I specifically refutes the explanations of the Force given in the original two Star Wars films. In the OT, we could say that Yoda is the wisest and most powerful Jedi because of his faith, dedication, focus, patience, intelligence, etc. In the PT, we say that Yoda and Anakin are the two most powerful Jedi because they were born with the highest number of Midi-chlorians in their body. This is almost a Social Darwinist theory of the Force.

Qui-Gon says that without Midi-chlorians, life would not be possible and we would have no knowledge of the Force. Therefore, all living things possess midi-chlorians, and all living things should have access to the Force.

The film would have been superior if the midi-chlorians were never mentioned, though. The Force definitely has changed since Obi-Wan described it in Episode IV (Lucas was trying to make a positive change, but hurt the films instead). In Episode IV, Obi-Wan comments: "When I first met your father, I was amazed at how strongly the Force was with him." In Episode I, this comment seems to have changed to "I was amazed at how high his midi-chlorian count was." The descriptions from the original trilogy imply that your ability to use the Force is limited only by the strength of your mind and will. Yoda makes it abundantly clear that NO PHYSICAL LIMITATIONS can be placed on the Force, including a Midi-chlorian count. In the PT, this is no longer the case.

Does this mean that when Anakin loses his legs and arms (a lot of cells) he also loses about 40% of his midichlorians and therefore much of his force ability?

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Originally posted by: Seiji

7.) Either re-do the voices of the battle droids with a deeper voice, or have them use no voice at all. The destroyer droids were cooler and more menacing because they did not speak. The same could have been done for the battle droids

Why the hell do robotics soldiers need to communicate verbally anyway? Wouldn't silent, coded communication be more efficient?

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Originally posted by: Seiji

9.) C-3P0 should not have been created by Anakin. His dialogue in TPM is also horrendous at times (ie- repeated lines: "That Jar-Jar creature is quite unusual"). C-3P0 would have worked better as a servant of the Naboo, or as a translator in the Senate, and R2-D2 would have worked better as Anakin's creation.


I like this idea. But instead of actually building him, maybe anakin could take home a broken astromech droid that Watto was going to throw out and repair him and program him in his own fashion, which would explain R2's personality (he's the only astromech who has one it seems).

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: Duke's alter ego
Good points. By the way, where IS the guy who played Jango Fett from? Korea? The Dominican Republic?


Mr. Morrison is Maori and is from New Zealand...

lot of ideas being kicked about, but if you are going to go through all the trouble to rewrite something, why not just start from scratch??? In the story arch the is slowly but surely coming together in my mind there will be small influences from the EU and PT, but most of it would be new ideas built off the OOT. Again i dont have anything in writing, but i have lots of things floating about in my head and a general direction of where i would have liked to see the films go...
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Originally posted by: Kingsama
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Originally posted by: Duke's alter ego
Good points. By the way, where IS the guy who played Jango Fett from? Korea? The Dominican Republic?


Mr. Morrison is Maori and is from New Zealand...

lot of ideas being kicked about, but if you are going to go through all the trouble to rewrite something, why not just start from scratch??? In the story arch the is slowly but surely coming together in my mind there will be small influences from the EU and PT, but most of it would be new ideas built off the OOT. Again i dont have anything in writing, but i have lots of things floating about in my head and a general direction of where i would have liked to see the films go...


My PT is totally from scratch, including character names (other than those established in the OT). I've barely read any EU stuff (but am doing so now) but plan to approach my PT from the view of a general audience person who is familiar on with the OT.

Now, if I could only decide on whether to write these in novel or script form...
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Originally posted by: greencapt
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Originally posted by: Kingsama
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Originally posted by: Duke's alter ego
Good points. By the way, where IS the guy who played Jango Fett from? Korea? The Dominican Republic?


Mr. Morrison is Maori and is from New Zealand...

lot of ideas being kicked about, but if you are going to go through all the trouble to rewrite something, why not just start from scratch??? In the story arch the is slowly but surely coming together in my mind there will be small influences from the EU and PT, but most of it would be new ideas built off the OOT. Again i dont have anything in writing, but i have lots of things floating about in my head and a general direction of where i would have liked to see the films go...


My PT is totally from scratch, including character names (other than those established in the OT). I've barely read any EU stuff (but am doing so now) but plan to approach my PT from the view of a general audience person who is familiar on with the OT.

Now, if I could only decide on whether to write these in novel or script form...


I am with you when it comes to the EU, you could never incorperate it all, it just that at this point there is no way for me to fully deferintiate between my SW movie knowledge and EU knowledge. It has been forever and a day since i read anything EU, but i am sure that it will have an effect on what comes to about, if anything ever materializes at all.

As for the novel or script ? i would just start with a very vague story arc and a list of characters needed. Then flesh out the arc with events and form a time line. Add more and more to the mix until you have a solid foundation then you can write it out in what ever manner you prefer. I doubt anything i come up with will ever be more than a time line and a story in my head, but one has to have something to do while remicing dorkishly with old friends...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/Kingsama/samasig.jpg
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Seiji, your whole post....right on!!!

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Now, if I could only decide on whether to write these in novel or script form...


I'm going to try mine in novel form. I'm going to do quick writings of them like novellas...trying to keep them at about 100 pages. No diarrehea of the word processor.

Here are my quick notes on what should be changed in TPM.

Anakin's backstory
Anakin is 15 years old and along with his family is a slave on Tatooine. His mother Shmu and brother Owen are servants of Watto. Anakin's father was killed in an attempt to free his family from slavery. Anakin witnessed this, so we see how he obviously has a darker side. Anakin longs to be free and roam the stars. Shmi encourages this, but knows that it is unlikely. Owen is 4 years older than Anakin and is already pretty set in his ways, believeing that his lot in life is to stay on Tatooine and make some sort of life for himself.

No midiclorians
We should just get an explanation that is on par with what Obi-Wan and Yoda explained win 4 and 5....just as was stated by Seiji above.

The prophecy
I initially didn't like this, but it has grown on me. So we will keep it.

Jar Jar
Jar Jar should not be some clumsy, stupid dumbass. He should be the Han Solo of the PT. Kind of a rogue player, who has a dubious side.
Sort of a combination of Lando and Han. Jar Jar is essential to the story though. He was able to bring in the Gungans for the final battle.

Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon
Both should be full Jedi Knights. And I think that the characters should be sort of reversed. Qui-Gon acted like how I thought Obi-Wan should have and so on. Obi-Wan should believe in Anakin from the get-go. In the finished film, Obi didn't seem to be on Anakin's side at all. This is also an opportunity to put a little discord into the ranks of the Jedi. In the EU, there was some kind of conflicting philosophy of the force....one was the Living Force and the other was the Unifying Force. One requires looking to the future a lot.....this would play right into Obi-Wan's character as Yoda described in ESB. "All his life as he looked away to the future...the horizon."

Padme
Padme should also be 15...the same age as Anakin. And they should be interested in each other from the start. Nuff said....we can build on that in the next episode....but the groundwork must be laid here in a believeable way. In the film, it is hard to believe that any kind of romantic love could be present or ever be present between a 14 year old girl and a 9 year old boy. Sorry...no way.

The blockade
I like the set up for this movie....which is just some elaborate plot for Palpy/Sidious to become Chancellor. The blockade works, but it need to be simplified and explained better.....more on this later.

What I plan to do...

Completely overhaul and re-work the prequels
Keep ANH the same.....but what do you guys think about taking the Death Star out and putting at the end of ROTJ. The Death Star battle should be the ultimate battle at the end of the whole saga.
Keep ESB the same....completely...too perfect already!!!
Change ROTJ.....Wookiees instead of Ewoks.....a longer fight after the sail barge between Luke and Boba Fett.....somehow work Leia into the duel on the Death Star.

Just some preliminary ideas.....what do you all think?
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Does this mean that when Anakin loses his legs and arms (a lot of cells) he also loses about 40% of his midichlorians and therefore much of his force ability?


From what was said in PT they live within our cells, I don't know if less cells=less Midi-chlorians=less force ability. I do know they throw physical limitations into the mix. It has now become the more midi-chlorians you're born with, the stonger your are with the force. This isn't how the force was explained by Yoda.

At this point, I think we're just better off without his prequels.

"I over-estimated Lucas's creativity and discovered that he's nothing but a cognitive creator with a good imagination, but can hardly direct and definitely could not write himself out of a wet paper bag (even if the pencil was sharp). However, someone with such a creative wit could never be stopped from exercising what they feel to believe their genious no matter how many people try to convince them they can't do it. Lucas established his influential powers early with the first Star Wars film and buddying up to other noted talents like Steven Spielberg. To do what Lucas wanted to do with Episodes I, II, and III, he strategically surrounded himself with a bunch of butt-kissing "yes" men. Those people gave him the liberty with 20th Century Fox he desired and was able to create a whole slew of crap without being hinged upon that was guaranteed success merely by name. He could have written the phonebook into either film, and they still would have grossed as well. They're "Star Wars" for crying out loud."


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I like this idea. But instead of actually building him, maybe anakin could take home a broken astromech droid that Watto was going to throw out and repair him and program him in his own fashion, which would explain R2's personality (he's the only astromech who has one it seems).


Makes sense to me, Artoo is a astromech with attitude and spunk, why not. Or better yet, he could of left C3PO and R2 out entirely, maybe cameos. Why can't we have original characters with the same amount of appeal as C3PO, R2-D2, & Chewie. Oh wait ... we had Jar-Jar Binks and General Gravious!


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Originally posted by: Kingsama
I doubt anything i come up with will ever be more than a time line and a story in my head, but one has to have something to do while remicing dorkishly with old friends...


LOL- I feel the same here, but it IS great to be dorkish with old friends, isn't it?