dvdmike said:
There is more detail in the BD is it not worth sorting out the contrast on that?
I think it is. I had the old HDTV version years ago, and it looked like the DVD master i.e. poor. Despite the contrast issue, I'd far rather watch the Blu-ray, so I hope there's a way of sorting out the contrast and the blown-out whites.
I found a 720p HDTV version of the old master, but does anyone have the source 1080i version? It would presumably give far/much better quality. As rockin said, marrying it with the original PCM audio would be awesome!
Chewtobacca said:
dvdmike said:
There is more detail in the BD is it not worth sorting out the contrast on that?
I think it is. I had the old HDTV version years ago, and it looked like the DVD master i.e. poor. Despite the contrast issue, I'd far rather watch the Blu-ray, so I hope there's a way of sorting out the contrast and the blown-out whites.
I may look at that then I have GBII MPEG 1080i that it would match to nicely
bigrob said:
just doubled checked and the Japanese Superbit DVD's are from the 2005 master
bugger :(
bigrob any chance you can post some screenshots of the Superbit DVD transfer with the 2005 DVD? There might be some subtle differences between them that have been missed.
I spoke to someone on one of the ghostbusters community boards a few years back and they claimed there was some differences in colour timing with the Superbit compared to the 2005 DVD transfer. Maybe less noise in the contrast boosting as well, I can't really remember.
I've got some screen grabs on the Superbit that i can post but you may have to wait a while for the original R1 DVD unless someone can chime in with them?
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bigrob said:
I've got some screen grabs on the Superbit that i can post but you may have to wait a while for the original R1 DVD unless someone can chime in with them?
Great!
Yeah I have the R1 DVD, so I could do it - do you mean the 1999 one? I've got that, and the 2005 DVD but that one is R2.
yeah the 1999 edition (cover has all 4 on top of the tower block)
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Screen Grabs rom the R2 Japanese Superbit DVD
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img16/7964/vlcsnap2013021021h25m08.th.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img442/9177/vlcsnap2013021021h25m44.th.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img818/3910/vlcsnap2013021021h25m53.th.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img62/9205/vlcsnap2013021021h26m06.th.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img94/4992/vlcsnap2013021021h26m11.th.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img199/8379/vlcsnap2013021021h26m40.th.png[/IMG]
if your looking for a specific screen grab please let me know
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bigrob said:
Screen Grabs rom the R2 Japanese Superbit DVD
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img16/7964/vlcsnap2013021021h25m08.th.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img442/9177/vlcsnap2013021021h25m44.th.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img818/3910/vlcsnap2013021021h25m53.th.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img62/9205/vlcsnap2013021021h26m06.th.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img94/4992/vlcsnap2013021021h26m11.th.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img199/8379/vlcsnap2013021021h26m40.th.png[/IMG]
if your looking for a specific screen grab please let me know
Thanks for those. I took your screenshots and my 1999 screenshots and put them on the screenshot comparison website so we can see the differences.
I'd like to compare the 2005 DVD screens with the superbit one at some point as well.
Anyway, here are the comparisons of the 1999 DVD with your Superbit DVD (I tried to get them match perfectly but it was difficult to capture the exact frame):
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/13734
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/13736
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/13738
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/13741
Any updates on this ?
Maybe we should try to change the colour timing of the Blu-ray as previously suggested to get the best overall look that fits in before they boosted all the colours and contrast in 2005. Doing that, and adding the Criterion laserdisc PCM audio would be a great combo!
I have the Criterion and '92 RCA/Columbia discs on their way to me. I'll compare the two tracks and sync the winner (hopefully it won't be an apples and oranges situation - hybrids give me a headache).
By the way, I'll be syncing to the official BD rather than any less official versions - I figure that what it loses in accuracy it gains in availability (so my track will be more useful to more people). That said, if someone else would like to put some colour work in on the video, that would indeed be swell.
This is the best news I've heard today. Can't wait to get a look at this thing!
“Alright twinkle-toes, what’s your exit strategy?”
Jonno said:
I have the Criterion and '92 RCA/Columbia discs on their way to me. I'll compare the two tracks and sync the winner (hopefully it won't be an apples and oranges situation - hybrids give me a headache).
By the way, I'll be syncing to the official BD rather than any less official versions - I figure that what it loses in accuracy it gains in availability (so my track will be more useful to more people). That said, if someone else would like to put some colour work in on the video, that would indeed be swell.
Awesome news!
Jonno said: By the way, I'll be syncing to the official BD rather than any less official versions
That's a good idea. People can sync HDTV broadcasts to the BD if they want to make custom versions.
I don't mean to keep shifting the topic away from the sound mix, but from what I can tell, the Blu-ray color timing seems closER to the 70mm print I saw at American Cinematheque. That was Halloween 2010, but I still specifically remember being surprised that the print looked closer to the Blu-ray than I expected it would.
Make no mistake, the Blu doesn't truly replicate the look of the original photochemical timing. I remember the 70mm print having more green than I expected, but the modern transfers do seem to take it even farther with the green/cyan cast. The modern transfer is also too bright, especially in the midtone range, and we already know the contrast is blown out, but I was still surprised at how that 1984 print looked more like the newer transfers than I ever thought it would.
Someone in the UK has a Derann 16mm print; this digital camera recording of a projection is too dark, and makes it look more yellow than it actually is (I believe LPP tends yellow-green?), but when I white-balanced the title, it looked closer to the new transfers than the old ones. The campus doesn't look as drab and low-contrast as the 1999 transfer, that's for sure.
Yes, I do think a retiming project using the Blu-ray would be great, especially combined with these sound mixes. If only we could get in contact with this guy who has the 16mm print, it could make a great color reference...
TServo2049 said:
I don't mean to keep shifting the topic away from the sound mix, but from what I can tell, the Blu-ray color timing seems closER to the 70mm print I saw at American Cinematheque. That was Halloween 2010, but I still specifically remember being surprised that the print looked closer to the Blu-ray than I expected it would.
Make no mistake, the Blu doesn't truly replicate the look of the original photochemical timing. I remember the 70mm print having more green than I expected, but the modern transfers do seem to take it even farther with the green/cyan cast. The modern transfer is also too bright, especially in the midtone range, and we already know the contrast is blown out, but I was still surprised at how that 1984 print looked more like the newer transfers than I ever thought it would.
Someone in the UK has a Derann 16mm print; this digital camera recording of a projection is too dark, and makes it look more yellow than it actually is (I believe LPP tends yellow-green?), but when I white-balanced the title, it looked closer to the new transfers than the old ones. The campus doesn't look as drab and low-contrast as the 1999 transfer, that's for sure.
Yes, I do think a retiming project using the Blu-ray would be great, especially combined with these sound mixes. If only we could get in contact with this guy who has the 16mm print, it could make a great color reference...
What's also surprising is I recently dug out my laserdisc copy and noticed that the colours were much, much, closer than I expected to the blu-ray. It would be interesting to see if the Criterion laserdisc is different.
I haven't seen an original print of Ghostbusters, but I did see a digital one over a year ago, which had less contrast problems than the blu-ray. I assumed this was either because of the way the projector was calibrated or there is actually a new digital master out there (not the same as the blu-ray) which has fixed the blown out contrast (rumours suggest there is a new 4K remaster coming out in 4K Blu-ray format at some point - maybe it was testing the waters with that?).
Actually, thinking about it, the laserdisc colours and contrast is closer to the digital version I saw at the cinema - which looks fab!
Wow, so the DCP version isn't as blown out? I have missed a couple opportunities to see the film in digital because I assume it'd just be a 4K straight from the Blu-ray master (as with Back to the Future, Lord of the Rings, etc.)
TServo2049 said:
Wow, so the DCP version isn't as blown out? I have missed a couple opportunities to see the film in digital because I assume it'd just be a 4K straight from the Blu-ray master (as with Back to the Future, Lord of the Rings, etc.)
Yup, pretty much. It was my first time seeing it on the big screen, and I was expecting it to look exactly like the blu-ray, and I was pleasantly surprised to see it kept the same colour timing as the blu-ray but the contrast was waaay better than the blu-ray. I couldn't believe my eyes, as it looked perfect!
I am hoping if and when they release the 4K remaster that is rumoured to be for the new 4K Blu-ray, that the contrast will mirror what I saw at the cinema. And then hopefully, which then follows, a 1080p version!
Ok folks, the PCM capture is ready for you to try out - PM me and I'll get links to you.
I opted for the Criterion capture in the end (mainly because the disc was in better shape) but to be honest there's very little between the two discs' tracks - if I didn't know better I'd think they were identical masters (at the very least they're struck from the same print). Video is another story, of course - the Criterion image is far better than the RCA/Columbia, but that's probably less of a surprise.
Anyway, I've synced the track to the current BD video as discussed. It's upsampled to 48KHz so the file is ready to use - just mux it in with your BD rip (the video stream is surprisingly small, so you should find that you can keep the existing TrueHD for comparison and still fit the movie on a single layer disc).
I hope it satisfies those looking for a more authentic aural experience as it has me - for best results dust off the Pro Logic setting on your amp and turn it up loud (it's a fairly dynamic mix, so brace yourselves for the proton beams!)
PM sent!!
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So far so good! I did need to really crank the fader on my processor though. But there is a lot of detail in the mix. The low frequency in the elevator when they switch Ray's proton pack on was great.
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tried to send a PM. Said box was full.
For the record there's a new 4K remaster on its way.
A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em
I've done a few of these resyncs now, and this mix is certainly the most dynamic I've encountered. The relatively quiet dialogue does seem standard for this film - it's certainly a persistent issue in the 5.1 remixes (as reviewers have commented on).
Here's what the waveform looks like. The upper track is the BD's core AC-3 which I used as the basis for the sync - as you can see, the dynamic range is comparable there.
