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Episode III: A Less Grievous Version (* unfinished project *)

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One of the worst aspects of Episode III was, in my opinion, the character of General Grievous. He came completely out of the blue (for those who have not seen “Clone Wars”) and serves no real purpose to the story. Besides, as cyborgs go, his mechanical appendages seem to be far superior to those of Vader. Why wouldn’t the Emperor build Grievous, but not Vader, with four arms, for example?

Because no fan edit has yet attempted to excise Grievous from the film, I have decided to make an attempt myself. Having no prievious experience with video editing, the result will probably be less than stellar, but I will nonetheless give it a try. I have already made a rough version of the edit, and have come to the conclusion that removing Grievous both be doable and will not harm the main plot of the film. The hardest part will be the scene where Sidious reveal himself to Anakin, because Anakin enters his office to report the death of Grievous. I have yet to find another good place to begin that particular scene.

Although the main point of this edit will be to remove all traces of the General, I also intend to edit out other annoying portions of the film. The “buzz droids” are gone. So is Sidous’ fight against his “little green friend”. Other common edits will most likely also be made (the balcony scene, Padme losing her will to live etc.)

Thoughts? Comments? Criticism? Noob-bashing?

(On a completely unrelated matter, would somebody pretty-please-with-sugar-on-top send me an invitation to Demonoid? Please?)

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One thing I liked about Grievous was his theme music, sounded a little too much like Harry Potter (which in turn kinda sounds like Schindler's list, haha), but was still very cool to hear when his ship lands on...that planet he lands on. Anyway, I also think it would be awesome if he were gone, but maybe you could reinstate his music elsewhere, cause his theme was the really only interesting bit of music in the whole PT (besides Dual of the Fates of course, which was milked for all it's worth to sell sell sell).

What kind of tools are you using?

Spaced Out - A Stoner Odyssey (five minute sneak peek)

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Grievous's theme could be the Trade Federation's theme in the film. Also, what will Obi-Wan be doing since he will not be chasng Grievous on Utapau?


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This is an interesting concept. I wish you luck on this, if there is any way that I could help without having to do video editing let me know!

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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This may help clear up Lucas's logic behind the character of Grevious.

While I still don't like it, at least now I understand it.

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Thanks for all the encouraging comments, guys.

PaulisDead: Yeah, I really like his theme music as well. I'll have to look for other places to use it. Up to now I've used Womble, but since I really need wipe transitions between some scenes I'm planning to switch to Vegas 7.0.

Marvolo: That's a godd suggestion, I'll look into it. As for Obi-Wan, he'll still go to Utapau by mixing parts of the two Jedi Council scenes: "What about the droid attack on Utapau?" Obi-Wan goes off to fight, and we don't see him again until Order 66.
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Originally posted by: kerr
Thoughts? Comments? Criticism? Noob-bashing?


Welcome to the forums kerr.
Good new, we are not too into noob bashing around here. A completely retarded, self bloating practice. But as far as thoughts, comments, and contructive criticism goes, we have plenty to offer. There is a lot of experience that hangs around these forms, and regardless of how many times a film has been edited, they are always happy to help out with advice for somebody who is trying to do something new with it. Your edit sounds interesting. I for one will be looking forward to seeing how it progresses.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Thanks, C3PX!

I have begun editing in Vegas, and am quite happy with the results so far. One problem I found while editing the opening sequence of the movie was that the crawl mentions Grievous, so that will have to be remade. Unfortunately, I haven't the slightest clue as for how to do this. I know that many of you create crawls in Adobe After Effects, which is a bit too expensive for my tastes. Are there any alternative (i.e. cheaper) programs capable of making decent crawls?
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I bet somebody would be willing to whip together a crawl for you, if you rewrite the text or remove that part and send them the text. Unfortunately, I don't know how to do it myself, or I would be happy to help.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Okay, here's a list of the changes made so far:

-Anakin's first line is now: "Lock on to 'em, R2. Master, the one crawling with vulture droids." His later mention of Grievous' ship is also cut
-Obi-Wan no longer dodges the missiles, creating a small continuity error but making it possible to completely remove the buzz droids. A good trade-off, IMO.
-Cut some of the silly battle droid voices.
-Cut all of Grievous' appearances (of course)
-Cut the destroyers and the elevator stuff
-Cut Dooku's silly frontflip, he just jumps down
-Anakin and Obi-Wan are no longer captured, they just fight their way to the bridge. Why would they do that? No idea, but I think it works.
-Cut Obi-Wan's "We are still flying half a ship."
-Cut all mentions of buzz droids and Grievous on Coruscant
-Cut Padme's "There where whispers that you'd been killed"
-We go directly from Anakin/Padme reunion to Anakin's first nightmare (no balcony scene)
-Cut Anakin's "Hey look, it's the amulet I made in Episode I!"
-Scene ends with "I will not let this dream become real"
-The deleted scene "A Plot to Destroy the Jedi" is inserted after Anakin meets Palpatine. Mentions of Grievous are removed.
-First Jedi Council scene ends with Anakin sitting down
-The scene with Mace, Obi and Yoda in the gunship ends after Mace's "So the prophecy says". Cut to Anakin and Palpatine alone at the opera (Anakin is there from the beginning), the first line being "Anakin, you know I'm not able to rely on the Jedi Council."
-As mentioned before, the second Jedi Council scene begins with "What about the droid attack on Utapau?"
-The Wookie battle is cut
-Cut from Obi-Wan's star destroyer taking off to Anakin's second nightmare in Padme's apartment
-Padme's apartment scene cuts to Anakin in Palpatine's office. First line: "More and more I get the feeling I'm being excluded from the council."
-Cut out Anakin wanting to kill Palpatine
-Palpatine's revelation scene cuts to Anakin and Mace in the hangar. First line: "I've just learned a terrible truth" etc.
-The Mace/Palpatine/Anakin scene has been reworked. Anakin enters, Mace says he's gonna kill Palpatine (who is still in his normal form). Anakin says "You can't, I need him!", Mace lifts his saber and loses his arm. Palpatine, who has now looks like the Emperor (how? No idea, but I think it's better than George's "reflected lightning" explanation) fries Mace and throws him out the window.
-Cut Palpatine's "A powerful Sith you will become."
-Cut Cody giving Obi-Wan his saber.
-Cut Yoda's "Chewbacca, this Wookie is, if before you had not noticed."
-Cut all mentions of Yoda going to fight Palpatine during the security recording scene.
-Cut Anakin's remarkably intelligent exclamation, "I saw your ship!"
-Cut out the entire Yoda/Palpatine fight.
-Reworked the scene after Obi-Wan "disarms" Anakin. Obi-Wan: "You were my brother Anakin, I loved you." Anakin: "I hate you!" Obi-Wan leaves. I think it's better this way.
-Cut out Padme dying of a broken heart.

Any comments?
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Sounds cool. Glad to see the Wookie battle gone. I was thinking of doing this for my edit (if I can ever get more time for it).

So, how does it all flow when you watch it? Is Grievous completely cut from the film? How did you handle the bridge scene where Anakin takes the helm after the fight?

I really like how you are creating a stronger plot with the inclusion of the deleted scene "A Plot To Destroy the Jedi". You're cliffhanger ending to the Jedi Council scene where Anakin is begrudgingly allowed to be part of the Council is also very cool. Episode 3 really missed the mark on being a mature film by treating the scenes so childishly.

As I look over your changes, there is a lot there that I might have to borrow. Regarding the Mace/Palpatine scene, I did a cut of this which might help your story flow. It does include the lightning transformation, but I think it downplays it and leaves what really happened open to interpretation. You can download it here if you'd like.

So, when will be able to see a scene or two?
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Thanks for the comments, darkhelmet.

Yes, every single frame of Grievous has been removed. The bridge scene works thusly: After the falling elevator and R2 escaping the pile of battle droid remains, I cut to an external view of the bridge. We then see the scared neimoidians fleeing, followed by Anakin and Obi-Wan cutting down battle droids. Then we see the ship breaking up and the escape pods launching (not by Grievous, obviously, but by the fleeing neimoidians!). Then "All the escape pods have been launched!" "Can you fly a cruiser like this?".

As for the flow of the film, I haven't yet had the time to watch it from start to finish, but I think I have a pretty good idea about what is gained and what is lost. The pacing of the movie is a bit slower, as there are no action scenes between the opening and the Palpatine/Sidious duel, but because of the short runtime (about 1 1/2 hours) I think it works.

Thanks to the cuts I've made, the focus is almost entirely on Anakin in this edit, which is the way it should be. By removing Grievous, there have also been some positive side effects. For example, the friendship between Palpatine and Anakin is emphasized, because their scenes together no longer begin with Anakin reporting what's going on with Grievous. The Jedi are also less stupid, thanks to the "Plot to destroy the Jedi" scene. They all know that's something rotten in the state of Denmark, but because of their dogooder nature, they are unable to act without evidence.

By the way, I've changed the scene with Anakin and Mace in the hangar. It now begins with Mace's "A sith lord!?". This way I lose Anakin's "I've learned a terrible truth" without losing any important information.

Darkhelmet, your take on the Mace/Palpatine scene is really good. It doesn't introduce the plot hole that my version does, but still makes it bearable to watch. I'll probably use a variation of it in my final version.

As for scenes, I'll try to upload something soon, probably the bridge scene or something else from the opening, as it's the only part of the film that's completely finished. Anything else you'd like to see?
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Is there any way you could play up the jealousy of Anakin over Obi Wan about Padme? That was sort of played down and Anakin's more irrational fear of losing her played up.

And also, when the Emperor tells Vader that he killed Padme, I think it would be cooler if he silently stares into the void instead of cheesily yelling "NOOOOO!"

Those 2 things and taking out Padme's death would make the movie much more satifactory.
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Originally posted by: kerr
Darkhelmet, your take on the Mace/Palpatine scene is really good. It doesn't introduce the plot hole that my version does, but still makes it bearable to watch. I'll probably use a variation of it in my final version.
I'm glad to hear that you like my cut of the scene. I'd be honored for you to use the idea. I hope you don't mind me borrowing from you.
Anything else you'd like to see?

Yeah, I'm really interested in seeing how you cut the bridge scene together, but I'd also like to see the "Plot to Destroy the Jedi" inclusion, the first Jedi Council scene ending with Anakin sitting down, and Padme's apartment scene cutting to Anakin in Palpatine's office.

At your convenience of course.

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Here y'go:

http://rapidshare.com/files/31966649/clips.wmv.html

Bridge scene, plot to destroy the Jedi and Jedi Council #1. I didn't include the Padme's apartment to Palpatine's office cut, because I'm still undecided on what kind of transition to use there. I'll probably include it in the next batch of clips. Bear in mind that these clips are in no way final, and may change for the final release.
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Sweet, kerr! I'm at work, but I'll definitely be checking these out. Thanks!
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Originally posted by: kerr
Here y'go:

http://rapidshare.com/files/31966649/clips.wmv.html

Bridge scene, plot to destroy the Jedi and Jedi Council #1. I didn't include the Padme's apartment to Palpatine's office cut, because I'm still undecided on what kind of transition to use there. I'll probably include it in the next batch of clips. Bear in mind that these clips are in no way final, and may change for the final release.


Something I tried to see if it would work was cutting Padme's apartment scene and transitioning from Obi-Wan's starfighter entering hyperspace to Palpatine's by use of a fade to black transition. It works good, because the last look Anikan gives Obi-Wan is one of confusion, and in the next scene with him he is confessing to palpatine instead of Padme. I just thought it seemed better for him to discuss his concerns with Palpatine and not Padme. It shows he has a stronger friendship and trust with Palpatine. Plus Anakin going to his wife and discussing his worries and then going to Palpatine gets a bit redundant.


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Marvolo, that's a really good suggestion, but I don't think I'll use it in my edit for a couple of reasons.

First, I think it's important to have Padme and Anakin together in a couple of scenes, and I've already removed two.

Second, in my edit Anakin doesn't go to Palpatine to rant. I cut from Anakin promising Padme he won't lose her to Anakin hinting to Palpatine that he might abandon the Jedi if Palpatine tells him how to save Padme: "More and more I get the feeling I'm being excluded from the council... I know there are things about the force that they're not telling me." I've also tried to emphasize the Anakin/Palpatine friendship in their earlier scenes.

Oh, I've also figured out a clever transition between the two scenes, with a shot of just Anakin in Palpatine's office splitting a shot of Anakin and Padme. Yep, it's supposed to be symbolic.
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more symbolic transition than the venetian blinds wipe? Lol seriously, anybody remember seeing some weird scene wipes in ROTS you'd never seen in Star Wars before? I think there was a checkerboard one.

Hey well this seems to be going well for a first edit. I'll totally check it out.

Spaced Out - A Stoner Odyssey (five minute sneak peek)

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Originally posted by: kerr
Marvolo, that's a really good suggestion, but I don't think I'll use it in my edit for a couple of reasons.

First, I think it's important to have Padme and Anakin together in a couple of scenes, and I've already removed two.

Second, in my edit Anakin doesn't go to Palpatine to rant. I cut from Anakin promising Padme he won't lose her to Anakin hinting to Palpatine that he might abandon the Jedi if Palpatine tells him how to save Padme: "More and more I get the feeling I'm being excluded from the council... I know there are things about the force that they're not telling me." I've also tried to emphasize the Anakin/Palpatine friendship in their earlier scenes.


I faded into Anikan's line "More and more I get the feeling I'm being excluded from the council... I know there are things about the force that they're not telling me." This is Anikan ranting in a sense. Even his facial expressionas and intonations show that he is frustrated, and in the scen with him telling Obi-Wan goodbye he mentions his frustration. So, yes he is venting to Palpatine. He is frustrated with the Jedi, so he goes to Palpatine. If you place the Padme's apartment scene inbetween these two scenes you break up this flow, because there is no reason for him to be frustrated or worried by the time he gets to the scene with Palpatine because he has already discussed his thoughts with his wife. Anikan is suppossed to trust the Jedi less and less as film and story progresses, and by cutting out Padme's apartment scen you make this idea stronger, because Anikan is only getting more and more frustrated. Plus, padme's apartment scen has a totally different theme than the scene of him telling Obi-Wan goodbye and his scene in Palpatines office. In the scene involving Obi-Wan and the scene involving Palpatine he is mad and frustrated with the jedi, but in the scene in Padme's apartment he is talking about wanting more power. I just don't feel the scene in Padme's apartment flows well with the other two, but it is your edit so it is up to you.


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A quick progress report: I'm burning the current version of my edit to DVD today, and try to find time to view it tomorrow. If I then think it's good enough for a wider audience, I'll give it some finishing touches (a new crawl, most importantly... Any help on this would be greatly appreciated, btw.) before uploading it as a torrent.

Originally posted by: PaulisDead2221
more symbolic transition than the venetian blinds wipe? Lol seriously, anybody remember seeing some weird scene wipes in ROTS you'd never seen in Star Wars before? I think there was a checkerboard one.


Guess I got the terms mixed up, venetian blinds is indeed the one I'm using. I've also removed all (I think) of the weird scene wipes you refer to.

Marvolo, I guess that's a "point of view" matter. Personally, I think the scene works, although I totally understand why you don't. I'm keeping it in for the time being at least, though I might change my mind after viewing the edit in its entirety.

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Originally posted by: kerr
Guess I got the terms mixed up, venetian blinds is indeed the one I'm using. I've also removed all (I think) of the weird scene wipes you refer to.


Oh no you didn't mix up anything. I mean venetian blinds was one of the wipes I think were used that were really weird. That and the checkerboard pattern. Very cool you've kicked those. I thought there might not be enough room on either side of the transition for a comfortable shift for those couple of scenes.

Spaced Out - A Stoner Odyssey (five minute sneak peek)

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Hey, kerr. Very cool story-telling. I love the flow of the sequence where you inserted the deleted scene "The Plot to Destroy the Jedi". I can't wait to see more. Your edit looks and sounds very promising. Can't wait to share some more of my stuff with you and the forum once I get some time.

Marvolo, I really like your idea about continuing Anakin's frustration from his farewell to Obi-wan directly to his talk with Palpatine. Lucas' lack of development and follow-through on character emotion is a major flaw which your approach improves. We never really get to finish a character thought with the original cut. Is your cut available to check out?

About Padme's apartment scene, it seems to me like something needs to be done with it since it is only tenuously tied to Anakin's vision of Padme and Obi-wan. If it wasn't simply cut out, it might be a good opportunity to see Anakin's resolve to save Padme, but maybe it could come in somewhere before Obi-wan leaves so Anakin's jealousy seems a little more real? Any thoughts?
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Originally posted by: darkhelmet
Hey, kerr. Very cool story-telling. I love the flow of the sequence where you inserted the deleted scene "The Plot to Destroy the Jedi". I can't wait to see more. Your edit looks and sounds very promising. Can't wait to share some more of my stuff with you and the forum once I get some time.

Marvolo, I really like your idea about continuing Anakin's frustration from his farewell to Obi-wan directly to his talk with Palpatine. Lucas' lack of development and follow-through on character emotion is a major flaw which your approach improves. We never really get to finish a character thought with the original cut. Is your cut available to check out?

About Padme's apartment scene, it seems to me like something needs to be done with it since it is only tenuously tied to Anakin's vision of Padme and Obi-wan. If it wasn't simply cut out, it might be a good opportunity to see Anakin's resolve to save Padme, but maybe it could come in somewhere before Obi-wan leaves so Anakin's jealousy seems a little more real? Any thoughts?


I don't have a full edit of ROTS done. I mostly get seperate sequences and try to improve them rather than doing a full edit.Aboout Anikan's vision in Padme's apartment, I have tried just using the dream part up until the part where Anikan comes out of the dream and lowers the data pad then wiping to another scene before he looks up at Padme'.