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Episode 3's Wasted Characters

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 (Edited)

While I'm going to check out your video, I haven't yet.  So without bias from your opinions, I'll go ahead and give my opinions on the list as posted in this thread.  Then, after I watch your video, I'll comment based on that.  Gee, I'm really being demanding here, aren't I?  Sorry.  I'm tired.  Anyway, to be brief:

For Padme and Qui-Gon, their realized potential was certainly written but then discarded, either on the proverbial editing room floor (because we all know there was no actual film to drop on a floor!) or earlier than that.  However, Padme's cut potential of forming the Rebel Alliance... eh, I'm not too upset that that's gone.  The prequels were already full of implausible, coincidental oddities (C-3PO, R2-D2, Jango Fett, Chewbacca with Yoda, and the list goes on...) that Padme forming the Rebellion would just have been another kick in the groin.  I just hope its deletion removes it from canon.

As for Qui-Gon... eh, he wasn't there, but I feel it worked just as well as it could have been.  I read the part of the script where he actually talked, and, honestly, the whole Force Ghost thing didn't seem any more "explained" there than what we actually got.  And I didn't mind that he devised it.  It didn't seem nearly as asinine as the above coincidences I listed.  Maybe it's because Qui-Gon already felt disconnected enough from the OT that it doesn't seem so implausible.  Or maybe it's because it's a broad concept rather than a direct event/character, and that's why it doesn't seem as stupid.  Then again, I never needed an explanation for the Force Ghost thing at all until Phantom Menace didn't have them fade away.  Then again, I suppose I can forgive that with the increased number of Jedi, many of whom were constantly dying within seconds of one another, especially in the latter two prequels.  It just would have seemed weird to have a constant stream of disappearing bodies.  But with all the things that didn't make sense in the prequels, the force ghost explanation pretty much goes under my radar.

And as for Grievous, he was a total waste of a character.  There was no potential to tap in the first place, and the world would have been a better place had he never been invented at all.  That damned, irritating, waste-of-space, cliched, inept, non-threatening, unfunny, unsympathetic, uninteresting, poorly-conceived, poorly-directed, poorly-executed excuse for a major villain can suck my lightsaber as far as I'm concerned!  Man, I hate that... thing!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I agree with you on General Grievous as long as it's in the context of the film. But in Star Wars: Clone Wars (isolated some clips in the vid to show this), he seems like a villain that very well COULD have been realized as great and memorable. The unique design of his character, his intimidating demeanor, the fluidity of which he makes his movements, all of it build up to high potential that never made it to ROTS, mainly because of the coughing/weazing/hunching of his back, etc.

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Gaffer Tape said:

For Padme and Qui-Gon, their realized potential was certainly written but then discarded, either on the proverbial editing room floor (because we all know there was no actual film to drop on a floor!) or earlier than that.  However, Padme's cut potential of forming the Rebel Alliance... eh, I'm not too upset that that's gone.  The prequels were already full of implausible, coincidental oddities (C-3PO, R2-D2, Jango Fett, Chewbacca with Yoda, and the list goes on...) that Padme forming the Rebellion would just have been another kick in the groin.  I just hope its deletion removes it from canon.

Padme's rebel alliance formation scenes seem to be considered canon, but the actual formation of the alliance seems to be now in Force Unleashed. But none of it's real Star Wars canon anyway (the only real Star Wars canon is the OOT). The rebellion-related cut scenes in ROTS were incredibly lame, with Padme's pals coming off like a total bunch of posers and idiots. And Lucas's daughter's in there as this blue girl. I agree that they pushed things in the prequels with Anakin building 3PO and Yoda being best buds with Chewbacca. That stuff comes off implausible and artificial and helps to make the prequels feel all the more forced and unreal.

As for Qui-Gon... eh, he wasn't there, but I feel it worked just as well as it could have been.  I read the part of the script where he actually talked, and, honestly, the whole Force Ghost thing didn't seem any more "explained" there than what we actually got.  And I didn't mind that he devised it.  It didn't seem nearly as asinine as the above coincidences I listed.  Maybe it's because Qui-Gon already felt disconnected enough from the OT that it doesn't seem so implausible.  Or maybe it's because it's a broad concept rather than a direct event/character, and that's why it doesn't seem as stupid.  Then again, I never needed an explanation for the Force Ghost thing at all until Phantom Menace didn't have them fade away.  Then again, I suppose I can forgive that with the increased number of Jedi, many of whom were constantly dying within seconds of one another, especially in the latter two prequels.  It just would have seemed weird to have a constant stream of disappearing bodies.  But with all the things that didn't make sense in the prequels, the force ghost explanation pretty much goes under my radar.

I don't like the prequel take on force ghosts. It seems revisionist to me. Not that everybody has to vanish when dead -Darth Vader clearly didn't know what was going on when Kenobi vanished, so clearly not all Jedi do that. And Luke burned Vader's body (non-vanished) at the end of ROTJ and Anakin still appeared as a force ghost. Of course nowadays they claim that it's only Vader's outfit that was burned in ROTJ and the body was gone, but I don't buy that crap. But the Qui-Gon-invents-force-ghosts thing clearly wasn't around in the old days, because Qui Gon was invented for TPM in the 90s. 

Mind you, I really like Qui Gon, because Neeson does a great job with him. He's the best thing in the prequels by far. An appearance by him might have added something to ROTS. As it is now, ROTS has absolutely nothing of value in it.

And as for Grievous, he was a total waste of a character.  There was no potential to tap in the first place, and the world would have been a better place had he never been invented at all.  That damned, irritating, waste-of-space, cliched, inept, non-threatening, unfunny, unsympathetic, uninteresting, poorly-conceived, poorly-directed, poorly-executed excuse for a major villain can suck my lightsaber as far as I'm concerned!  Man, I hate that... thing!

Greivous was the evil counterpart to Jar Jar and like him a cartoon character that didn't belong in live action Star Wars. 

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Electronic computer voice on the video=FAIL

Did not even bother to watch the whole thing it was awful.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005 said:

Electronic computer voice on the video=FAIL

Did not even bother to watch the whole thing it was awful.

 

 Judging by your other posts in this forum, I know you would appreciate the content itself. The synthesizer was me experimenting with a new style... though, if enough people object to it, I might consider creating a new audio with me at the microphone. Please consider watching it again if that happens.

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HotRod said:

Doc...WTF man...Did you call Stephanie from Lazy town sexy in that vid???

She's like 10 years old dude!!!

 

 Glad you caught that! I saw it as an opportune moment for creepiness.

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So i watched it and i guess i agree with a lot of your points on the failures of the prequels.

I liked the qui gon scene in the script and the novelization as well as padme starting the rebellion.

Grievous was a better character in the Genndy Series and was awful loony tunes level silly in episode III and the new 2008 clone wars cartoon.

Obviously the Rebellion's beginning has been scrapped from Episode III and stricken from canon, and only on the second disc of the dvd of rots as a bonus.

The rebellion's start according to Lucas is now to be what was done in the force unleashed.

I won't say how because some may have not yet played the game, but it is an awful and stupid idea for the rebellions beginning and craps all over the original trilogy.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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DoccGero said:
HotRod said:

Doc...WTF man...Did you call Stephanie from Lazy town sexy in that vid???

She's like 10 years old dude!!!

 

 Glad you caught that! I saw it as an opportune moment for creepiness.

You said it man!

 

http://www.facebook.com/DirtyWookie

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skyjedi2005 said:

So i watched it and i guess i agree with a lot of your points on the failures of the prequels.

I liked the qui gon scene in the script and the novelization as well as padme starting the rebellion.

Grievous was a better character in the Genndy Series and was awful loony tunes level silly in episode III and the new 2008 clone wars cartoon.

Obviously the Rebellion's beginning has been scrapped from Episode III and stricken from canon, and only on the second disc of the dvd of rots as a bonus.

The rebellion's start according to Lucas is now to be what was done in the force unleashed.

I won't say how because some may have not yet played the game, but it is an awful and stupid idea for the rebellions beginning and craps all over the original trilogy.

 

 Agreed. Their attempt at irony turned out pretty ridiculous.

 

ALERT!!! ALERT!!!! ALERT!!!!

 

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Everyone, a new version of the review has been posted, using MY voice as an alternative to the synthesizer. Much of the dialogue is also different. Note that my voice will become more audible once the "Problemo Numero Uno" pic comes up. Check it out.

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The only wasted character in episode 3 was the audience

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain.
"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes"...James Feibleman (1904-1987)
www . axia . ws/axia

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This is very true.  The movie used the audience very poorly.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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You said it Axia! For once we can agree! A well executed movie will use the audience well, entertain them and really get them into the story, Ep. III did a bang up job of putting people to sleep, most definitely a waste of a good audience. Anytime the name "Star Wars" is in a movie you have automatic record ticket sales (well, prior to Ep.3, as post Ep.3 evidence shows that this is no longer the case), when so many people are going to go see a movie regardless of how good or bad it is, it is truely ashame to waste it like that.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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C3PX said:

You said it Axia! For once we can agree! A well executed movie will use the audience well, entertain them and really get them into the story, Ep. III did a bang up job of putting people to sleep, most definitely a waste of a good audience.

That is so true. EP 3 was the only star wars movie, in fact only movie EVER,  ever that my kids all fell asleep in the cinema. I wasn't far behind

 

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really? i couldn't fall asleep! i was shaking in my seat the entire movie! and it was a four AM showing!

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I agree.  The first time I saw it I was pretty enthralled.  But it's one of those movies that falls apart under close scrutiny.  And I might have fallen asleep and just never realized it because it took me three viewings before I ever had any memory of that horrible wookiee battle.  That's never a good sign...

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Can you imagine those who read the rough draft script, really the first draft in 1974 and waited all this time to see a real wookie battle as george originally planned.

And what we got was the awful cgi monstrosity in episode III completely fake and green screened.

Cgi at its best it when the magician of the technique does not show his hand in the work, it has to look like you actually shot it live in the real world and not like a frickin cartoon.

Still i feel for those poor fellows who in 1974 believed in the greatness of george's vision and waited 31 years for what amounts to a couple minutes of screentime and was a non event.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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You all KNOW thats not what I meant. I love episode 3. I was commenting on how the audience never gave it a chance, like all the prequels.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain.
"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes"...James Feibleman (1904-1987)
www . axia . ws/axia

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 (Edited)

If people actually paid to see the phantom menace's sequels. attack of the clones and revenge of the sith, then i would say they gave them more than a chance.  Lucas had 3 chances to deliver, we all know the outcome.

I think as consumers that is more than fair.  Maybe more fair than deserved.  Its time for people to stop paying to see something just because it has the star wars name on it, but is not quality.

Well audiences got it with Clone Wars the only star wars film to not open at number 1 and flop on the big screen.

Indiana Jones IV and the Prequels made tons of money riding on the coatails of good movies and nostalgia.

That is the only way i can explain that they made so much money.

As for the tuskagee airmen picture it will be his first hardcore bomb since howard the duck or More american graffiti.  And there is no way in hell he can do better than the biopic the history channel produced.

I read an article saying this will be basically cgi plane dogfights like star wars back in the day.  It will be like bays pearl harbor only worse.

That said Plenty of directors can do far far worse than George Lucas.  The prequels just did not live up to the original trilogy and for that they will always be damned by some people.

Hey going in people had no characters they really cared for anyway No Han Solo, Luke Skywalker or Leia Organa.

I don't know you would have to ask the young kids who grew up with the prequels if the characters or stories really tocuhed them emotionally, or if the characters were not cardboard cutouts to them.  To me they were inferior in almost every sense to the original series characters, and not only in terms of writing.  Just in plain humanity and likeability.

Unless George was aiming for a detached, emotionless and sterile series of films that we got with overblown cgi.  These films were hollow and souless.  Like food that does not fill you up , or like a drink that does not quench your thirst.  Like books that you open with nice covers that have no writing inside,lol.

In other words pale imitations and shadows of the original films without any sort of storytelling mastery or magic, but full of technical wizardry and visual effects mastery in computer graphics.

What i want is good space fantasy/ science fiction, along with some human drama.  I want to feel, i want magic.  I want characters i care about.  i don't want to watch six hours of videogame footage.  That was not what George promised to deliver, and not what people expected to wait twenty years to see.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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If the IMDB is accurate, Lucas' biggest bomb is actually Radioland Murders from 1994.

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Where were you in '77?

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AxiaEuxine said:

You all KNOW thats not what I meant. I love episode 3. I was commenting on how the audience never gave it a chance, like all the prequels.

The audience gave it plenty enough chance. ROTS was absolute shite and people have far too much respect for it.

 

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rcb said:

really? i couldn't fall asleep! i was shaking in my seat the entire movie! and it was a four AM showing!

Probably shouldn't have taken amphetamines before going to the cinema then.

 

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For me, Episode III was the only prequel to have any emotional engagement. On the first viewing, I was pretty moved. I actually felt for Vader as he appeared in the OT.

But on later viewings, when the emotions didn't hit me as hard, I began to see the faults (stupid droids, no Sifo Dias resolution, Sidious's goofiness, Anakin's reason for turning, etc)

I think Padme was the real wasted character. She went from almost being the main character in Episode I to being a pretty incubator in Episode III.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?