Sign In

Emmet Otter's Jugband Christmas (Complete) - NOW AVAILABLE!

Replies
176
Author
Time
Hi all! Thanks to the site redesign, I was finally able to change my (forgotten) password, and update you all on this project.

**********UPDATED INFO**********

EMMET OTTER'S JUGBAND CHRISTMAS - 30th ANNIVERSARY EDITION

original film name: Emmet Otter's Jugband Christmas
film studio name: Jim Henson
Date Original Film Was Released: 1977 (v1, HBO) / 1980 (v2, ABC)
Date Edit Was Released: (late) March 2008
Original Runtime: 50 min (each version)
New Runtime: 53 min
Amount of time Cut/Added: +3 minutes
Cuts added/altered (stuff not on the official "V2" releases):
-Kermit's opening restored (previously only on older "V2" releases)
-Kermit's narration before "Bathing Suit" song restored
-Emmet and Ma sing the entire "Bathing Suit" song! (unique to this version)
-"pass the hat to fish" dialogue restored
-"fall off the dock" dialogue restored
-"I'm rowin', where's the singin'" dialogue before "Washtub" song restored
-Kermit's narration about the morning snow restored
-"we're off to a shaky start" dialogue restored
-Kermit's last segment restored
-fade-in to final scene and incidental music restored
-original copyright info during end credits restored
-V2's extended "Washtub" and "River Meets The Sea" (reprise) left in
-V2's curtain close, bunny dance, etc...all left in

DVD - Features:
* 53 minutes, NTSC
* static (but nice!) chapter menus
* bonus anniversary footage

Conceptual improvements/advancements of edit over original:
There are two different versions of the "Emmet Otter" TV special: The first was shown on HBO (released as a Muppet Video VHS), while the other appeared on ABC and official video releases (Columbia Tri-star being its first DVD release). Each edit has something that the other doesn't, with the second, more common version deleting some memorable material. On top of that, the most recent (HIT Entertainment) V2 DVD release (which provides V1-only material in a Bonus Clips section) was forced (by Disney, recent re-owners of the Muppet Show related Muppets) to remove all traces of Kermit from their product. To remedy all of this, I'm combining all of the footage to seamlessly (as possible) create the longest, most complete version of this memorable Muppet Christmas special (which is currently being made into a stage musical).

Be sure to buy HIT Entertainment's official DVD of "Emmet Otter", which was created with respect and care for the material, plus plenty of bonus features, including bloopers, lost music, and a full-length documentary (none of which I will be using for my DVD). HIT owns the non-Muppet Show and non-Sesame Street related Muppets, and has also released the excellent Fraggle Rock series box sets. They deserve your support. (Oh, and the original book's pretty neat, too.)

**********ORIGINAL POST 10/14/06**********

Hello, all. I tried this last year, but a faulty hard drive destroyed it. But I must try again, this has to be done. I'm thinking of making a complete version of this classic Muppet holiday special from the late '70's, using three different sources:
A) Version 1 Edit, 1970's (fan's DVD transfer of original HBO broadcast)
B) Version 2 Edit, 1980's (released by Columbia/TriStar)
C) Version 2 ReEdit with Version 1 clips as separate bonuses (released last year by HIT)
Disney wouldn't allow HIT to include any Kermit clips on its recent DVD version, which inspired this project. Everything unique to each of the original two edits will be combined to make an ultimate version. My fan edit DVD will not include any of the bonus documentaries that appeared on the HIT DVD, because I refuse to rip off the efforts that HIT put into making a quality official release that any real fan should buy without hesitation (My disc will be a supplement to that release). To put this together, I would need a program to rip (any and all kinds of) DVD files into workable AVI's, and I'd have to edit it all in Adobe Premiere, so any advice or help with this is welcome. I would also enjoy any Emmet Otter documentaries that predate the HIT collection, which I could also throw onto the disc.
P.S. If anyone has a complete CBS or ABC copy of the also-butchered Muppet Family Christmas TV special, I could use your help in restoring that as well.

This post has been edited.

“The tragedy of your times, my young friends, is that you may get exactly what you want.”
Author
Time
Nice username. As a longtime Muppet man good luck with all that.
Author
Time
Wow I haven't seen this in forever. It'd be nice to see it complete.

Dr. M

Author
Time
It so happens I taped Emmet Otter in 1998 off of Nickelodeon, (probably the last time it was shown on tv) in Super-VHS. All Kermit scenes are present and it is the same cut as the HBO version, AFAIK. The only problem is a three second cable dropout during the talent show sequence.


Where were you in '77?

Author
Time
I remember watching this on TV when I was a kid as well. Great show. I'd be interested.
Author
Time
Originally posted by: SilverWook
It so happens I taped Emmet Otter in 1998 off of Nickelodeon, (probably the last time it was shown on tv) in Super-VHS. All Kermit scenes are present and it is the same cut as the HBO version, AFAIK. The only problem is a three second cable dropout during the talent show sequence.

-----Awesome. The '98 broadcast is indeed Version One. Is there a way you can transfer it to DVDR? I'd like to compare it to the broadcast copy that I have. The dropout won't be an issue because the majority of my edit will come from either the Columbia or HIT DVD, including the talent show material.
-----I'd ask if you also had the "Muppet Family Christmas", but the '98 Nickelodeon broadcasts have always been the Version 2 edit (I know because my fiancee taped them), making the CBS and ABC (not NBC) airings the ones to get for *that* one.
“The tragedy of your times, my young friends, is that you may get exactly what you want.”
Author
Time
The R2 DVD edition of Muppet Family Christmas is near complete with, I believe, only one sequence of Fozzie and his Mom removed. This might be a good starting point.

I hope the Emmet project goes well, sounds like a great release.
Author
Time
I have already burned a disc of it. I'm going to be out of town for the next two weeks, but I'd be happy to send you a copy when I get back. This is my Mom's favorite Christmas special and she hates the cuts that have been made. I picked up the older DVD a while back with the same idea in mind you have.
Sorry, I don't have the other special.


Where were you in '77?

Author
Time
Fortunately, I had kept a log of the cuts I needed to make when I attempted this last year. I've alterred it here to reflect the new attempt and the better sources. I still may change where I make or source certain cuts, but this is to give an idea of what I have to do (I'll also be rechecking both versions to make sure I didn't miss anything):

SOURCES:
* #1 - 198? DVD (from VHS) of original HBO broadcast (aka v1)
* #2 - 1996 DVD release of rebroadcast (aka v2)
* #3 - 2005 DVD release of above (v2), but with less footage
* #4 - 2005 DVD's Deleted Scenes section (upgrade of some v1 footage)
EDITS:
01 - #2 - logo opening (from later releases) and Kermit's intro
02 - #3 - opening titles
03 - #1 - Kermit's narration piece 1 (audio)
04 - #3 - bathing suit song
05 - #4 - "wet hat" and "fall off the dock" dialogue
06 - #3 - possum's pumpkins dialogue
07 - #4 - washtub song spoken intro
08 - #3 - washtub song
09 - #1 - Kermit's narration piece 2 (audio)
10 - #3 - all scenes from here until the talent show
11 - #4 - "shaky start" dialogue
12 - #3 - dancing rabbits and rest of special until...
13 - #1 - Kermit at the inn/beginning of last scene
14 - #3 - finale into credits
15 - #1 - original Henson copyright from end credits
16 - #3 - Henson end logo from later releases, as an added bonus
TOTAL RUNNING TIME:
52 minutes, 0 seconds

So there you have it, including four things that never turned up on any official release. It's plenty to fix, though Muppet Family Christmas will be a much more difficult edit by comparison. Can anyone make an NTSC conversion of the R2 DVD?
“The tragedy of your times, my young friends, is that you may get exactly what you want.”
Author
Time
I'm sure the Spleen would LOVE to have this. It is SO up that site's alley. As one who has only seen the recent DVD (which I own), I didn't even know Kermit had a role in it. I'd love to see it though. I love reading the book to my son around Christmastime.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
Author
Time
I think the HIT version sort of benefitted from not being allowed to use Kermit, since the Version Two edit only used the first of his four pieces of narration, and might as well have just left him out entirely, anyway. The story's so good that it doesn't exactly need him. Nonetheless, every broadcast or released version of Emmet is missing *something*, and it's time to fix that.
“The tragedy of your times, my young friends, is that you may get exactly what you want.”
Author
Time
This was always the reason I loved having HBO as a kid in the early 80s. The first time I watched my dvd of the special, I was like "Wasn't Kermit in this?" It'd be great to have a complete version finally. Sign me up for a PIF or something when you get it done (I've done a PIF for MarioXB's Street Fighter dvd and will do one for my own Lensman dvd when it's finished, and am definitely going to do it for Fixer's Dr Who stuff). Can't wait to see your "fixed" version. ^_^

I've got better things to do tonight than die! - Springer, Transformers the Movie

Author
Time
Another main reason (besides Kermit) for doing this is that every time they cut out the line where Ma tells Gretchen Fox (under her breath) to "fall off the dock", I could swear that I see smoke coming out of my fiancee's ears. It's probably the most "WTF?" cut of the entire Version Two edit.
“The tragedy of your times, my young friends, is that you may get exactly what you want.”
Author
Time
I'd love a copy of this as I have the original DVD release and I was disapointed by the cuts. This is my all time favorite Christmas movie. I also believe the River Bottom Nightmare band's song was the first "nu-metal" song that inspired many would-be singers to start singing like cookie monster!
Don't Make Me Destroy You!
Author
Time
Oh, I would love a copy of this! When I bough the dvd I was so pissed off by all the cuts that I can't even tell you. The bonus materials are great, real gems for fans of this classic. But those ridiculous and unnecessary cuts rank just beneath the SE for me in terms of destroying a classic work by removing original elements.

Awesome idea!
Author
Time
Those Emmet edits can't hold a candle to Muppet Family Christmas. Then again, you can't say "Muppet" about anything without saying "edit" (Muppet Show Season One, anybody?).
“The tragedy of your times, my young friends, is that you may get exactly what you want.”
Author
Time
Never saw the Muppet christmas special, so I wouldn't recognize th edits. When I watch Emmet Otter now, it just feels incomplete to me, like it has these gaping holes where I know something should be. It pisses me off every time the "fall of the dock" scene doesn't appear on-screen. It also screws up the introduction of Will Possum. Grrr.
Author
Time
Any ideas on where you are going to post this so that you can share it with the world?


I have a VHS copy of this that is well used.
Hammond
Author
Time
I have all three of the DVDs that I'm going to be using for sources (finally getting the Columbia/TriStar last week). I now need a program that will rip DVD files (even copy-protected ones!) into avi files that I can edit with Adobe Premiere. Anyone who can hook me up with a program will be soundly rewarded.
“The tragedy of your times, my young friends, is that you may get exactly what you want.”
Author
Time
Originally posted by: What.Cobbler?
[
-----I'd ask if you also had the "Muppet Family Christmas", but the '98 Nickelodeon broadcasts have always been the Version 2 edit (I know because my fiancee taped them), making the CBS and ABC (not NBC) airings the ones to get for *that* one.


I'll have to check--any quick way to tell which network it is?

I toyed with doing this last year; I'm pretty sure I have the original broadcast.
Author
Time
The edits in each version are outlined on this page:

http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/A_Muppet_Family_Christmas

If the title card appears in the opening shot, you've got a Version Two edit. In Version 1, the title card doesn't appear until after the song, superimposed in front of Ma Bear's house (followed by a fade to black for commercial, featuring some extra Muppet noises not on the other versions). Original edits will also fade to black after the Jingle Bell Rock segment. If you have the CBS/ABC version, and intend to use it for a DVD project, I have plenty of extra material that you could use. Here's what my edit would have contained, had the hard drive not crashed last December, making the most complete version possible:

SOURCES:
VHS - original (mono) Maxell VHS SLP recording of the first-ever ABC broadcast (v1)
- more complete than the later broadcast version (v2) seen on NBC & Nickelodeon
DVD - official (stereo) Columbia Tristar DVD edit (v3), itself an edit of the re-edit (v2)
- fed through SVHS system to bypass brightness caused by copy protection
ETC - downloaded 5-second mpeg clip posted on A Muppety Christmas site
- not the best quality, but makes up for the clip missed by the above VHS recording

EDITS:
01) DVD - We Need a Little Christmas intro (I started the VCR late on the no-title open shot)
02) VHS - end of song, title credit
-BREAK 1
03) VHS - Ma Bear w/extra house shot & incidental music
04) DVD - Doc enters, etc
05) VHS - Jingle Bell Rock end/fade
-BREAK 2
06) VHS - Fozzie & Rowlf incidental music
07) DVD - Fozzie & Rowlf scene, etc
08) VHS - Rowlf on piano, snowman song
09) DVD - Fozzie & Kermit, etc
10) VHS - Muppet Babies complete scene
11) DVD - Gonzo & Turkey, Sesame Street carolers, etc
12) VHS - Kermit looks out window
-BREAK 3
13) VHS - Kermit window shot w/title, Ma & Fozzie
14) DVD - Oscar & Rizzo, Doc searches for Piggy, etc
15) VHS - Home for the Holidays, Piggy's icy patch
-BREAK 4
16) ETC - Fozzie & Elmo light the tree
17) VHS - Ma's announcement, with incidental music
18) DVD - Gonzo & Animal in closet, medley pt1
19) VHS - medley pt2 (Have Yourself a Merry Little Xmas)
20) DVD - medley pt3 (Christmas Bells)
21) VHS - medley pt4 (I Heard the Bells on Xmas Day)
22) DVD - medley pt5 (last two songs)
23) VHS - end of medley, fade to black
-BREAK 5
24) VHS - Fozzie's stocking, Piggy's mink (w/incidental)
25) DVD - Robin & Grover, Jim & Sprocket, credits
TOTAL RUNNING TIME: 47+ minutes

BONUS FEATURES:
* Michael Eisner & Kermit intro (from NBC v2 rebroadcast)
* Playskool sponsor bumper (ABC)
* silent title bumper (ABC)
* Toys R Us sponsor bumper (ABC)
* Kermit bumper (A Muppety Christmas site)
* original end credits (ABC w/original copyright title)
* revised end credits (NBC w/different font & Disney logo)

Woulda been neat, huh? Maybe someday, since I still have my sources....

EDIT: Of course, if someone recorded an entire Version 1 broadcast, complete with commercials, they could just put *that* onto a DVD, not worrying about cutting back and forth between the VHS and DVD-quality footage. This is because Muppet Family Christmas (unlike with Emmet Otter) Version 1 has *everything*, and Version 2 has only exclusions, not additions.
“The tragedy of your times, my young friends, is that you may get exactly what you want.”
Author
Time
Hm.

I have the Nick version in crap VHSy quality. I didn't know that even the Nick version was cut.


It's a pity your complete version is SLP. =(


Isn't there a PAL VHS out there of the Nick edit?
Author
Time
The Nick version is slightly less edited than what ends up on the official (and out of print) Columbia TriStar DVD, which itself is an abomination.
“The tragedy of your times, my young friends, is that you may get exactly what you want.”
Author
Time
Surely you should use the Columbia disc as much as possible before you use your SLP recording tho'.
Author
Time
Given my sources, I'd mainly use the DVD, too. I would, regardless, but I do wish I had a better source tape to work with (and a touch more complete).
“The tragedy of your times, my young friends, is that you may get exactly what you want.”
To the top