Digital Source for the '77 Stereo Mix — Page 2

Ok, I've finished syncing and I should be posting to the newsgroup tomorrow.  After comparing this with the 1985 CAV disc, I'm positive that this is the 1977 stereo mix.  Many of the same flaws are present in both.  However, the digital track does have a few issues unique to it.  I have by no means attempted to fix every problem present, but there were a few spots where I used the analog track from the CAV disc to make corrections.  This makes up less than five seconds of time over the entire film.  The only other corrections required were a few phase issues throughout the film. Additionally, since the digital track did not have the correct version of the fox fanfare, I have taken that from the CAV disc.  

The audio has not been resampled or normalized as I wanted to keep it as close as possible to the original source.  Therefore, it is presented as a 44.1khz/16 bit PCM wave file.  

Ok, it's posted to a.b.sw.  Let me know if you have questions about it.  I am planning on posting the raw capture later today in case anyone is interested.

Great!! :)

schorman13 said:

Ok, it's posted to a.b.sw.  Let me know if you have questions about it.  I am planning on posting the raw capture later today in case anyone is interested.

Is there a delay value for this as it does not seem to be synced properly without??  Thanks

It should be synced properly with no delay value, although I may have to repost, as I've made a couple of small corrections.  

I had used the 1130-84 disc to help me sync the opening fanfare, however it was very different from the other LD's that I have.  There was a second or two less time between the fanfare and the beginning of the Star Wars Title theme.  Last night I compared the 1130-84 opening titles with the gout and it's missing about 27 frames.  Anyway, I re synced the opening fanfare to more closely match the incorrect one present on the japanese disc.

Also, I have synced this to match the GOUT when including the one extra frame from the PAL GOUT as I intend to create a version with this missing frame replaced.  That means that the sync will be off by about one frame for the last reel of the film.  

I have finished the fanfare and I plan on removing that one frame at the reel change to more closely match other GOUT sourced projects.

I look forward to the new and improved version.

Hopefully by the time that is available, I will have worked out why the original version is about 8 minutes short when I sync it to the GOUT even though I am doing the same as I have always done for all my re-muxing.....!!!!

Ah, my guess is that you are muxing it without upsampling to 48kHz.  This file is 44.1kHz, just like the LD.  44.1kHz pcm is not DVD compliant.  I guess I can upload my newer version as a 48kHz file.

I have not tried doing anything with the audio so I guess you could be right.

If you have a way of putting that right with your next upload, it would be a standard and straightforward remux, the same as every other GOUT mix out there... (that I am aware of)

I've given this a listen and here are my thoughts, particularly when comparing against Belbucus' reference level LD rip:

Wow, your Fox fanfare sounds MUCH clearer.  Night and day.  Are you positive this is the right one?

Your dynamic range also seems much higher.  While in general I like this, it makes volume normalization really difficult.  What gain values have you come up with?  +8dB seems to be pretty close for "normal conversation", but that can make it loud as hell on occasion, although it doesn't ever appear to clip.  Which I suppose is just fine, I just want to make sure.

Other than that, I'm not sure I hear a lot of difference (and I'm still listening, too), but a little better is still better.  Thank you very much for sharing!

Ok, I'm now posting the updated version to a.b.sw.  Changes include:

1. Change in the Sync of the Fox Fanfare.

2. Correction of the sync after the missing frame at the end of reel 5 to match NTSC GOUT.

3. Upsampled to 48kHz using Izotope RX2

4. Normalized by adding +7.21dB gain. (This is the calculated difference in Loudness between Belbucus's 1993 Mix and this version.)

5. One more minor audio correction using the US CAV disc to fill in a bit of missing sound (about 650 milliseconds)

How do we tell the difference?

CatBus,

I recorded the fox fanfare from the US CAV disc (1130-84), and I did not process the sound in any way.  This is exactly how it sounds on the laserdisc.  I do know that my Pioneer CLD - D704 supposedly has very good audio circuitry, so that could be part of the difference.  Also, I'm not sure, but I think
Belbucus may have captured his audio from the time compressed disc, which might explain why it sounds different.  I could be wrong about that though.

This is the correct fanfare for the theatrical mix.  The 1985 and 1993 mixes, along with the Japanese disc I used for this rip, use the version rerecorded for Empire, instead of the 50's recording used for the original theatrical release.

This is great schorman! So have you been able to determine if your US CAV disc (1130-84) is the '92 re-issue or the '85 release? Curious.

If 1130-84 contained the theatrical fanfare, then Belbucus would have used it.
The reason why he had to patch the fanfare from an alternate source
is because 1130-84 contains a re-recording

The Belbucus audio is the analogue track from the Standard Play CAV Pan and Scan Laser Disc so is not time compressed.

The US CAV disc (1130-84) have been pointed out to include the updated fanfare, that's why Belbucus had to patch it from another source as Mallwalker said.

Your Japanese copy (PILF-1236) seems to have the same issue but you say that you have patched the original fanfare from the US CAV disc (1130-84), hence the confusion.

The only explanation I can think of is what I tried to describe here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Digital-Source-for-the-77-Stereo-Mix/post/581659/#TopicPost581659

Different fanfare on different pressings of the (1130-84).

Can someone confirm that I've included the correct fanfare?  Now I'm really confused.  I actually have two copies of the the 1130-84.  The discs have slightly different labels.  One  matches other 80's pressings I have, and the other matches some others from the 90's.  That's all I can tell.

I need to check to see if they both have the same fanfare.  However, the posted version does match the 1954 recording from the '97 SE soundtrack.

The original 1954 FOX-fanfare: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVaB70jM5HQ

The re-recording: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWhW-icR1eo&feature=relmfu

Have no idea if there's an easy way to identify the different pressings of the 1130-84, their jackets should be identical as I understand it.

Alright, it's definitely the correct, 1954 fanfare on the track I posted.  However, I made a mistake, I actually have two copies of Empire on CAV and only one copy of Star Wars.  I am about 95% sure it's the original 1985 pressing based on the disc labels, and it has the correct fanfare.  For what it's worth, the only other version I have with the correct fanfare is the time compressed version (1130-80), but that has a weird thing where the first two drum rolls are at the correct speed, but the rest of it is sped up.   Neither of the three Japanes CLV discs have the correct fanfare (FY570-35MA, SF098-1103, PILF 1236).   It seems that the CAV is the only NTSC disc with the 1954 fanfare.  I'm not sure about PAL pressings though, nor am I sure about the 1992 repress.

I hope h_h is reading this so he knows we now have a very good quality original '77 fanfare...

TSevrvo 2049, that is the version on the CAV disc.  Are you saying that this is not the 1954 recording?  Is it some other mystery version?  To me it sounds exactly like the version on the 1997 soundtrack cd.

Ah, so this is probably what it is.  So I have made this very confusing for myself. :)  I was just confused because I thought that the CAV version was the correct one.  And I did not really notice that big of a difference between the John Williams and the Newman original.  They just sounded like different masterings without careful attention, while the 1981 version sounds significantly different.

Anyway, the Japanese Digital track does have the correct fanfare, though it does have the wrong, 80's fox logos.  

I will correct this for the second time and reupload.  And make sure to mark it as the corrected version.  Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks for the help in straightening this out.