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Certain parts of the PT are just cringeworthy, how did this happen?

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I know many here hate the prequels, I like some parts of them and despise others, so I guess I am in the middle of the pack here. But the one thing I notice about the PT after it is all said and done, is it has so many cringeworthy scenes that just don't exist in the OT, and that is a big hangup I have about those three movies.

Put aside quality, put aside what we all wanted in the PT, and put aside the bad tie in's to the OT, there are so many cringeworthy scenes & characters in there that make me shake my head if I watch them:

-Jake Lloyd as Anakin TPM
-All of Jar Jar for 2 hours
-The two headed pod race announcer
-The gungan battle vs droids that turns into comedy relief
-Every scene between Padme/Anakin discussing their love or build up of love in AOTC
-C-3PO cracking one liners during the Clone Wars
-The diner scene in AOTC
-Anakin & ObiWan on the elevator talking about not seeing Padme for 10 years
-The balcony scene between Anakin/Padme in ROTS, "I am so in love with you." etc.
-The whole turn scene is a mess, badly acted by Hayden, and poorly directed by Lucas
-The silly droid voices in ROTS
-Padme naming the babies within a split second after being told it is a girl/boy by that silly droid
-Vader, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

None of this stuff is about what I wanted the PT to be, cause that is the usual defense of the gushers is that we didn't like it cause it wasn't the story we wanted. I just try to watch these and all of the sudden Lucas started putting out movies that have big parts in it that make you cringe while watching it.

Where did this come from? How did this happen? Does this happen to anyone else when watching it? I can live with how Lucas wrote the story, if the movies were better executed, but as for now I think I wince a bit too much, and maybe that is why I don't revisit these movies all that much anymore.

What do you guys think?
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I agree that there were a ton of cringeworthy moments in the prequels. The only thing that's cringeworthy in the OT is watching Luke drool all over Leia and then make out with her.... Yuck. It's funny to think that when Empire came out, the kissing scene between Luke and Leia was probably met with cheers and applause. When I saw the SE in the theatre, that moment was of course met with laughter and groans. Way to go Georgie!

There really were some embarassing moments in the PT. Some of the other really cringeworthy moments for me were......

-Padme's whole Queen getup. Just plain nasty. And the monotone voice she spoke in was really bad.
-Whenever Boss Nass did that really gross thing where he shakes his head and crap comes out. How stupid and childish.
-The whole slavery on Tatooine thing. And pod racing for Anakin's freedom? Really lame. He should've just killed Watto and the hell with it.
-Anakin's "wet dream" about his mother in AOTC.
-Looking at Yoda in Phantom Menace was pretty cringeworthy.
-That stupid scene in Clones with 3PO's head on the battle droid's body's and vice versa. LAME.
George Lucas was seduced by the dark side. The OOT ceased to exist in his mind and became the Special Editions...." "They're more maching now than movies. Twisted and evil."
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I think the most cringeworthy aspect of the entire PT was seeing Natalie Portman and Jake Lloyd together in Menace and realizing those two characters would get married eventually. It was just never believable that Padme was 10 yrs older in Clones than she was in Menace. Given that Portman was 16 in Menace and Lloyd was 8 or 9, that's just really weird seeing those two together in Menace. Eeeewww. I never understood why Lucas had the same actress play Padme in all 3 films, but had two different actors play Anakin in the PT. It would have been better if he had picked the same actor for all 3 films or if Padme had been played by a 9 or 10 yr old in Menace.
George Lucas was seduced by the dark side. The OOT ceased to exist in his mind and became the Special Editions...." "They're more maching now than movies. Twisted and evil."
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Not that it makes it any better (actually makes it worse) but Portman was 18 in TPM and Lloyd was 10 (well probably 17 and 9 during filming)

but the character of Anakin was supposed to be like 12 and Padme was supposed to be like 14 i think (maybe 16)

either way, it was bad, as while Natalie did look younger (Lloyd didnt look older) it wasnt young enough to make them look close in age. I think a lot of that had to do with maturity of the character (and the actual actor)

I agree that they should have used the same actor for all three or had a different actor for Padme in TPM

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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I dont hate the PT films but there times when they seem to be brought down by bad scenes, and there are definiaty times when ive watched them and thought WTF! especially in the TPM at those funny looking podracers and announcers and especially Jar Jars antics in the Naboo battle, as for Clones I was in the cinema thinking oh my god!! at "I hate sand" the fireplace scenes,and the balcony scene in Sith and still think the love dialouge is pretty bad in Clones but dont cringe so much now as i am used to it if I watch it.

Adigitalman and Magnoliafan etc have shown in their edits what the films are like without what they consider "cringeworthy" scenes taken out and they do seem to work better and maybe are better films for this stuff taken out.

I think part of the problem is George cant seem write very good humor and seems to go for slapstick all the time, which maybe funny at first but can get tiresome and silly, and doesnt seem to write good romance dialouge and its like do people really say this!!.
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Although Hayden wasn't the best actor chosen for Anakin could you imagine Lloyd playing Anakin in all 3 films! That is very cringeworthy.

A cringe moment for me in the OT is during ROTJ where Chewie makes the Tarzan sound. I have always hated that part and I was very saddened to hear in ROTS as well.

BTW Jenny, I love your signature.
1000 Word Migraine
www.1kwordmigraine.com

An off topic site for an off topic world!
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Aside from the ones already mentioned, a big cringe scene for me was the whole "there was no father" scene in TPM. I have no problem with religious allegory, but Lucas needs to learn the fine art of subtlety! The way he did it, it was just embarrassing. Then there's the fact that the voting public of Naboo apparently has a teenager fetish. Seriously, any world that elects a 14 year old as its sovereign deserves to be conquered.

In AOTC, the scene where Anakin talks about how he doesn't like sand but likes Padme is just stupid too. But my favorite stupid scene from AOTC is when Padme is talking about her first boyfriend (or something like that) and says that she met him in the legislative youth. Or something like that. I'm too lazy to pop out my DVD and check lol. But that part cracked me up. That's how I always wanted to spend my childhood: being trained to serve in the legislature, so that someday I can even go on (perhaps before I even hit puberty!) to be elected to the highest office in the land. Can you imagine the campaigns? Would child politicians promise free candy, or toys? A government program to ensure that every child has equal access to XBox games?

Stupid, stupid Lucas!

I kinda wish I had gone with Darth A-Hole instead.

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Wow, another "PT hammer-breaking" thread! Anyone has ever counted how many threads of that kind there are here?...
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Originally posted by: Kaal-Jhyy
Wow, another "PT hammer-breaking" thread! Anyone has ever counted how many threads of that kind there are here?...

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I understand how you feel, but to me each topic is like a television channel, and you have the remote control, if you don't like it, change the channel.

But I think you are misunderstanding my topic, I am trying to figure how the OT never had these cringeworthy moments, or very few if that, and the PT is littered with them, and the movies are done by the same creator. What happened? Did Lucas's writing style change? Did he change as a director from the original SW in which I love? Is it just a sign of the times of movies and they ain't like they used to be?

I guess this wasn't a thread on what you thought was cringeworthy, but how do you have 3 movies that arent and 3 movies that are? IMO

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well, the time difference for starters. Over the length of time anyone can change. What if the PT was made first or what if it was made soon after ROTJ was finished, would it have been better?
1000 Word Migraine
www.1kwordmigraine.com

An off topic site for an off topic world!
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Originally posted by: DorK313
well, the time difference for starters. Over the length of time anyone can change. What if the PT was made first or what if it was made soon after ROTJ was finished, would it have been better?

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That is an interesting question, and I believe the two trilogies would have meshed together more fluidly if filmed in 1986. I think the advancement in technology has actually hindered trying to combine the two trilogies visually. You have one trilogy where there are mostly real sets & models, and the actors are in real settings: Endor in Califonia, Hoth in Switzerland, and Tatooine in Tunisia. Then you have the PT loaded with Blue Screen settings that look almost cartoonish at times, just watch the whole Geonosis battle in AOTC, it is like one big videogame with real actors. The only real scenes that mesh trilogies is Tatooine in TPM as relates to ANH.

I think the 16 years between trilogies was a big mistake cause people do change, and I think lucas kinda lost the focus of his main audience with the PT, especially TPM. The OT was made for teenagers, that kids can love the movies too, but so can adults. TPM for me is made for kids to love along with teenagers, and to me talks down too much to them in the attempts at humor with Jar Jar, etc.

I look at the Godfather III, it was filmed 16 years after Godfather II, and most fans think that is the worst of the three. Did Coppola lose touch with the audience? Was 16 years too much between movies? Or maybe was it just not as great material as Godfather I & II?

Maybe that is our answer, maybe was the PT just not as good material as the OT? Maybe the character weren't as lovable? Maybe it was never going to meet expectation right from the start?

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For years, I always assumed that the "there was no father" thing was supposed to be taken metaphorically, as in her saying that the father left, therefore, there was no father. I was blown away when I found out it was supposed to be taken literally. I guess I gave George too much credit at 13.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Because the Queen was so young and so mature, Lucas should have hired a young, mature actress. Can anyone say Dakota Fanning? Now that would have kicked ass.

And I agree, it was piss poor of George Lucas to cast two different actors to play Anakin while everyone else stayed the same.

"I truely, deeply, love you." - You swoon me with your linguistic skills, Padme...

"From my point of view the Jedi are evil!" - Wow, can't argue with that logic.

"Good bye, Chewbacca." - All that was missing was a Pepsi can in Yoda's hand, it would make the plug all that more OBVIOUS.

And I agree with the whole "Virgin birth" crap Lucas was stealing. I know he likes Religion and Mythology stories (who doesn't?) but that was just way out of line. Why didn't he just give Anakin the middle name of Jesus while he was at it? *cringe*

"What have I done!? [pause] I will do anything you ask." - This caused me to physically shout out, "WTF? Didn't he just want to kill him two scenes ago?"

And the whole fact that Anakin's portrail of his turn to the dark side consisted of him squinting for 2 hours. LAME.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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Originally posted by: Invader Jenny

"What have I done!? [pause] I will do anything you ask." - This caused me to physically shout out, "WTF? Didn't he just want to kill him two scenes ago?"

And the whole fact that Anakin's portrail of his turn to the dark side consisted of him squinting for 2 hours. LAME.


I thought the way they showed palpatine seduce anakin was done very well but I must agree, when it finally went down it was to sudden of a change. Also, I think haydens performance as evil was the best work he had done in both films, though that's not saying much.
1000 Word Migraine
www.1kwordmigraine.com

An off topic site for an off topic world!
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I still cringe when I hear the planet name "Naboo". Who in their right mind names a planet "Naboo"? And I too still cringe over the whole Portman/Lloyd/Christensen fiasco.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
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Naboo's not nearly as bad as Dooku, though.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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This is why I can't wait for The Starrkiller Ranch edits of these movies
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Originally posted by: CO
How did this happen?


simple! in the OT you had an awesome combination of talents: Kurtz, Kasdan, Brackett, Kershner and the help of Huyck and Katz on the screenplay of ANH (wow! lots of "K" names!) on the PT Lucas was almost all by himself...'nuff said!


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Originally posted by: grifter
Originally posted by: CO
How did this happen?


simple! in the OT you had an awesome combination of talents: Kurtz, Kasdan, Brackett, Kershner and the help of Huyck and Katz on the screenplay of ANH (wow! lots of "K" names!) on the PT Lucas was almost all by himself...'nuff said!


Exactly!
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
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Originally posted by: Han Solo VS Indiana Jones
Originally posted by: grifter
Originally posted by: CO
How did this happen?


simple! in the OT you had an awesome combination of talents: Kurtz, Kasdan, Brackett, Kershner and the help of Huyck and Katz on the screenplay of ANH (wow! lots of "K" names!) on the PT Lucas was almost all by himself...'nuff said!


Exactly!

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It is a shame, cause I can always enjoy any SW film, even a PT movie. But after finally watching all 6 of them together you really see a huge contrast in the overall style of each trilogy. Now as I said, this has nothing to do with the story or the characters or even 'what I wanted in the PT', it is about execution. It isn't even about being biased towards the OT, cause I find faults in ROTJ that I don't in ANH & ESB. But the PT is just loaded with so many bad moments that it really outshines the good moments, and the OT never had that effect on me while watching it.

I guess you are right that Lucas ran EVERTHING in the PT, and nobody is great at everything. Lucas to me is a great storyteller, and if you like the PT or not, he did have a vision for this story and stuck by it, and does come up with different worlds that make the movies interesting. Now with a different director and a screenwriter for the 3 movies, who knows how much better they would have been. Who knows how minor a role Jar Jar could have been in TPM, and a much more adult tone too. Who knows how much better the love story could have been in AOTC. And who knows if I would have felt more empathy for these characters that Lucas failed to do for 3 movies. I guess that will always be my personal shoulda, coulda, woulda.


I guess it is just too hard for me to marry these two trilogies and see them as one saga when you love one trilogy, and kinda enjoy the other, probably because it has the name Star Wars plastered in front of it.
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Originally posted by: CO
Lucas to me is a great storyteller
No, Lucas is great at ideas for stories, but he's shit at telling them.

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: Darth Simon
Not that it makes it any better (actually makes it worse) but Portman was 18 in TPM and Lloyd was 10 (well probably 17 and 9 during filming)

but the character of Anakin was supposed to be like 12 and Padme was supposed to be like 14 i think (maybe 16)

either way, it was bad, as while Natalie did look younger (Lloyd didnt look older) it wasnt young enough to make them look close in age. I think a lot of that had to do with maturity of the character (and the actual actor)

I agree that they should have used the same actor for all three or had a different actor for Padme in TPM

-Darth Simon


Where did you get those ages? Phantom Menace was filmed from June to September of 1997. Jake Lloyd was born in March of 1989, making him 8 during filming. Natalie Portman was born in June of 1981, making her 16. She was playing a bit younger 14 years in PM and a bit older 23-24 in Attack of the Clones (she was 19) and 22 playing 26-27 in Revenge of the Sith.

She was the least of the problems of the PT. Perhaps a better director could have gotten more from her, but she was fine despite her age.

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my numbers were gotten from their actual age based on the release of the movie. 1999-1981 = 18, I then said probably a year younger realizing that the movie would have been filmed at least a year before...it was apparenlty 2, i made a mistake, sorry.

as far as the ages of the characters, i couldnt tell where i got those, but i know thats what i heard from various places (possibly interviews) when the movies came out. either way, the actors age isnt the characters age, not saying it excusses the glaring difference in looks, just saying

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Originally posted by: JennyS1138
I agree that there were a ton of cringeworthy moments in the prequels. The only thing that's cringeworthy in the OT is watching Luke drool all over Leia and then make out with her.... Yuck. It's funny to think that when Empire came out, the kissing scene between Luke and Leia was probably met with cheers and applause. When I saw the SE in the theatre, that moment was of course met with laughter and groans. Way to go Georgie!



People always make a big deal over that, but there's really nothing there. There's no love triangle in the OT and "The Kiss" is little more than a closed mouth joke put upon by Leia to piss off Han. Even Luke is playing along to get Han's goat. Luke doesn't have more than one or two conversations with Leia in the first two movies and its about Han. I think we were all fooled into believing that Luke and Leia might happen so we're grossed out by the kiss in retrospect, but a closer study of the films shows that they telegraphed Han and Leia from the start. They even "meet cute" (she rescues HIM- into a trash compactor).

They couldn't have done a triangle, anyway. Luke's destiny was to go to Dagobah and become a Jedi. If the movies had played up the Luke/Leia/Han angle, then we would have been uncomfortable with Han making time with Leia while Luke was training. We were supposed to root for Luke to stay and finish what he started. Also, it would have made Han a less likable character if we thought Luke should have ended up with Leia. Heck, they were even on the poster in a "Gone With the Wind" pose.

So, watch the Kiss again. It's much ado over nothing. There's not even the slightest bit of incestuousness in it other than what we bring with us, because it's not in the films.

Now, I do have a further argument that says they originally intended such, but cut it out for story reasons (already said by me) and took advantage of it when they made them siblings.
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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
Originally posted by: CO
Lucas to me is a great storyteller
No, Lucas is great at ideas for stories, but he's shit at telling them.

Very true, and very unfortunate.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg