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Can anything possibly be improved in ESB?

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Though I struggle to understand what everyone finds so great about ESB (not even close to being my favorite), I will give them credit for the fact that it’s the one SW movie for which I can’t think of anything to improve upon. That probably stems from not knowing what exactly it’s lacking.

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Only minor stuff. Luke sits down weird one time on Dagobah. When Leia kisses Luke on the Falcon when leaving Bespin, there’s no sound effect.

I never liked how in Vader and Luke’s conversation (through the force) there’s like a two-frame fade.

“He’s all yours, Bounty Hunter” and “Now, release your anger” feel weird, and I’d cut out “Bounty Hunter” and “Now”.

If you care about trilogy continuity, then you could edit out Yoda being Obi-Wan’s master.


For actually major stuff, I really don’t like the other, and I don’t like either Emperor scene. The Emperor always looks bad in either one, and while Adywan’s is an improvement, it’s not groundbreaking. It doesn’t add anything, anyway.

The Empire did nothing wrong

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The only thing I can think of (and this applies to the entire trilogy) is for it to be R rating material.

Mind you, I love the OT as it is. However, I always imagine an alternate universe where the lightsaber doesn’t cauterize wounds, blasters result in bloody sprays, the Rancor graphically devours its victims, Jabba’s eyes pop out when Leia kills him, etc. Obviously I would never expect exploitation-type violence, just something in the line of Conan, the Alien franchise or John Carpenter’s films.

Essentially such a scenario would have prevented the franchise to become what it is now, albeit the films would still get a much deserved cult following.

Caligula’s complete OST:
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Caligula-1979-Complete-score/id/48671

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IsanRido said:

The only thing I can think of (and this applies to the entire trilogy) is for it to be R rating material.

Mind you, I love the OT as it is. However, I always imagine an alternate universe where the lightsaber doesn’t cauterize wounds, blasters result in bloody sprays, the Rancor graphically devours its victims, Jabba’s eyes pop out when Leia kills him, etc. Obviously I would never expect exploitation-type violence, just something in the line of Conan, the Alien franchise or John Carpenter’s films.

Essentially such a scenario would have prevented the franchise to become what it is now, albeit the films would still get a much deserved cult following.

While I don’t see how weapons utilizing superheated plasma could leave behind bloody injuries, this.

I also would’ve liked some more sexual content in the series. I’m not saying we needed any sex scenes, but some nudity wouldn’t have hurt.

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My screenplay index / Dreams of a Randy Git-Fiend

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Why the f*** would star wars need nudity. I’m not “offended” by the idea per say, but sounds like a real way to ruin the artistry and take me out of the movie. Maybe it’s just me but I hate nudity and overtly sexual scenes in movies in general. They don’t offend me, but they totally take me out of the movie I’m watching. Romance is one thing, scenes of a sexual nature always take me out of a film, even though they don’t offend me.

Chickens have personalities.

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While sex scenes rarely “take me out of a film,” they sure as shit would if they were in a Star Wars movie.

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Possessed said:

Why the f*** would star wars need nudity.

Doesn’t need it, but I would’ve preferred it. Why? Maybe it’s the nudist in me. Maybe it’s the deviated prevert in me. Maybe it’s the bitter adult in me who doesn’t wholeheartedly enjoy kid-friendly fairy tales anymore.

Whatever the answer is, I’d prefer a grittier, morally grayer, more adult-oriented SW over the series we have.

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My screenplay index / Dreams of a Randy Git-Fiend

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To continue the idea of adding gore, extend the scene of Vader helmetless in his pod. His arm is essentially rotting underneath his armor, so several spindly droids are adding additional robotics to his suit. This establishes that he’s falling apart even as he’s climbing the military ladder, and provides a ticking clock to his quest to recruit Luke.

Add many more Wampas to the Wampa lair, so that Luke is forced to flee instead of taking shelter in the cave.

Make the mouth of the asteroid worm more cavelike, with things that look like stalactites and stalagmites instead of teeth. Make the exterior of the beast more eldritch as well, and less like a hand puppet.

Have a ton of small spaceships leaving Cloud City to cover the Falcon’s escape as the evacuation proceeds. The cloud cars hold off the TIE fighters while they rescue Luke, but are destroyed after buying them just enough time.

DuracellEnergizer: "^He’s embraced the absurd. Don’t expect to gain any conventional understanding from his posts."
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The Force Awakens Starlight Fanedit

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DuracellEnergizer said:

IsanRido said:

The only thing I can think of (and this applies to the entire trilogy) is for it to be R rating material.

Mind you, I love the OT as it is. However, I always imagine an alternate universe where the lightsaber doesn’t cauterize wounds, blasters result in bloody sprays, the Rancor graphically devours its victims, Jabba’s eyes pop out when Leia kills him, etc. Obviously I would never expect exploitation-type violence, just something in the line of Conan, the Alien franchise or John Carpenter’s films.

Essentially such a scenario would have prevented the franchise to become what it is now, albeit the films would still get a much deserved cult following.

While I don’t see how weapons utilizing superheated plasma could leave behind bloody injuries, this.

I also would’ve liked some more sexual content in the series. I’m not saying we needed any sex scenes, but some nudity wouldn’t have hurt.

With all these elements, I probably wouldn’t have been able to watch Star Wars as a kid. I wouldn’t have played with Star Wars Legos, I would have never watched the DVDs and noticed how they are not the same movies I’ve seen for years. I wouldn’t have hated CGI dinosaurs and I would have never visited OT.com. I probably wouldn’t be interested in movies and moviemaking as much and I wouldn’t have watched films like 2001, Blade Runner, Alien or Robocop. Even if my interest in classic sci-fi movies would have been sparked by something else, Star Wars probably wouldn’t be my all-time favorite movie.

So, no. Star Wars doesn’t need isn’t improved by these things.

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Not so much an improvement but something I would like to experience as a curio would be having the unused musical cues put back and properly timed to match the scenes.
Don’t get me wrong the opening of the Vader/Luke duel works really well without the score but the unused score for the scene is referenced in the score for the cave scene, this is emphasised by the angled shapes of the corridor at the back of the cave which is similar to the cloud city chamber later referenced in TFA so I’d like to see a version with those cues returned but it might not actually improve anything.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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I have always wanted to add in some of the cut music and re-create short deleted special effects shots to improve the flow better. Not much hope of me doing that though!

Also arrange the film in a slightly better chronological order and re-edit.

Restore missing special effects elements that would change things quite a bit but not a massive amount and some deleted scenes too.

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Agreed about the music. I do think the duel works better without it, but it’s damn good music and watching it with the isolated score on Despecialized made me really want to see it properly reintegrated.

ALL PEOPLE ARE WEIRD - TV’s Frink

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I tried it. It was neat, but ultimately it was more suspenseful and atmospheric without it.

Chickens have personalities.

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Possessed said:

I tried it. It was neat, but ultimately it was more suspenseful and atmospheric without it.

There is a lot more to it than just putting the music in… you also have to put the shots in the correct order and / or add the missing shots to get the proper cues. This applies to about 90% of the cut music and even some existing music already in the film…hence the reason it was cut or you have those dodgy fade down and back up again where the missing shots are. It is around 9 shots missing at a guess off the top of my head.

Basically just putting the music in is not how it was scored as it was re-edited after it was scored just before the production went bust and they ran out of money and time. Williams came back to rescore partially but some of this was not used. It got a bit messy I think at the end of production.

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More Yoda tormenting Luke scenes.

So, a new book came out and we learned so much, and it is called, "Anguilosaurus, Killer of the Living".

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NeverarGreat said:

Have a ton of small spaceships leaving Cloud City to cover the Falcon’s escape as the evacuation proceeds. The cloud cars hold off the TIE fighters while they rescue Luke, but are destroyed after buying them just enough time.

They were meant to have been chased the whole time as soon ad they took off. The shot where the falcon does a loop turn through the clouds was meant to have tie fighters flying at it. It is in the comic book. Like playing chicken with the tie fighters and they dispersed to avoid a collision.

The other one like this is Leia Han and 3p0 being chased through echo base. (Forget about the Wampa door) There is one shot of storm troopers running from deleted scenes this is then followed by the scene where 3p0 is pulled through the door. On that shot the laser bolts are missing but the squibs are going off all around him as he is pulled through the door. Then when 3p0 gets to the ramp the sound mix fades off completely only to leave the music. This was to hide the sounds of the lasers going past the ramp he runs up and again the lasers are missing. Then we have the shot of the falcon failing engines. This should be the shot of the stormtroopers entering the hanger. It is exactly the same length in frames as the static picture of the falcon. The Static picture was an insert to make it seem they were not being chased and shot at!

https://vimeo.com/116947635

Now also when Han says “this baby’s still got a few sutprises” we have the gun appear immediately.

Basically it’s all there more or less but because elements are missing our perception of what is hsppening on screen changes and how we see the film is been skewed on these 2 counts.

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Ronster said:

Possessed said:

I tried it. It was neat, but ultimately it was more suspenseful and atmospheric without it.

There is a lot more to it than just putting the music in… you also have to put the shots in the correct order and / or add the missing shots to get the proper cues.

I dunno man, the duel music syncs almost 100% perfectly with the editing, down to the scene changes. I’m pretty sure it was pulled out of the sound mix at the last minute and as such there aren’t any editing changes necessary.

I don’t think the same can be said for many other cut music cues from ESB, though - the probe droid music definitely feels off with what’s happening on screen. But the duel music doesn’t at all.

ALL PEOPLE ARE WEIRD - TV’s Frink

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DominicCobb said:

While sex scenes rarely “take me out of a film,” they sure as shit would if they were in a Star Wars movie.

I don’t need a whole “sex scene” but topless Leia would’ve been pretty epic.

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ForceGhostRecon said:

DominicCobb said:

While sex scenes rarely “take me out of a film,” they sure as shit would if they were in a Star Wars movie.

I don’t need a whole “sex scene” but topless Leia would’ve been pretty epic.

That qualify as appropriate in my book, and would make sense in the context of the metal bikini, though that’s in RotJ. Still I don’t see the point, though.

So far the only good idea is the droids repairing Vader’s hand.

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ChainsawAsh said:

Ronster said:

Possessed said:

I tried it. It was neat, but ultimately it was more suspenseful and atmospheric without it.

There is a lot more to it than just putting the music in… you also have to put the shots in the correct order and / or add the missing shots to get the proper cues.

I dunno man, the duel music syncs almost 100% perfectly with the editing, down to the scene changes. I’m pretty sure it was pulled out of the sound mix at the last minute and as such there aren’t any editing changes necessary.

I don’t think the same can be said for many other cut music cues from ESB, though - the probe droid music definitely feels off with what’s happening on screen. But the duel music doesn’t at all.

The duel music only works up until Vader speaks… It clashes with what is going on quite a bit I think. It is probably scored to a slightly different cut or something. I don’t actually think it works only the very begining works flawlessly. It may have been scored in a rush the second time williams was recalled in the february before release not sure. I would only use partial bits of it anyway not all of it. More likely it was never put in to the film at all even though it was recorded. Not very likely that it was pulled out with how things went at the final production stages. The ending of the film has the worst sound and video editing of any star wars film but it still manages to be good and enjoyable. Quite some feat when they are sticking up some makeshift matte paintings of the landing platforms and on set audio also.

The probe droid sequence music is missing shots and the correct order is first we see the probe droid outside the shield generator then we cut to the command center… the missing shot is communication from station three eight gun turret communication cut’s off then back to Han “it’s not freindly whatever it is” now the deleted scene of the probe over station three eight turret (from rinzler book) in flames for the probe droid cue. (Break) Missing shot of snowspeeders then follows this. (Resume music) During the probe droid attack by chewie and han there is also a shot where the probe droid turns it’s head after Han Blasts it the first time found in the trailer this sorts the cue out properly. Also in the comic book.

https://vimeo.com/156984006

Of all the star wars films this was the one that needed the special edition treatment the most but Lucus was probably too afraid to add the deleted materials or was more concerned with pushing the cgi of Lucusfilm. It was not about the film and restorimg material from the cutting room floor so much but they did restore some of the cues but nowhere near as many as they should have.

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