Bingowings said:
RicOlie_2 said:
Sorry, my goal is not to insult people here, though it's hardly surprising when they are insulted, but please realize that the point is not to equate one with the other, as I believe pedophilia is far worse, but to show that it is headed that way, and how can you be sure adult/child sex won't be acceptable to society in the future if the child gives consent? If it is going that way with pedophilia, then perhaps we are being to accepting of homosexual sex and marriage.
Again, pedophilia is worse, so I'm not saying homosexuality is just as bad, so that is not my point.
You are putting the two on the same spectrum though.
I am saying they are both abnormal types of sexuality, however one is far worse than the other, and they are different types of abnormalities.
This is the problem with Religion as opposed to personal belief. It's fenced in by dogma (dog being god in reverse should give you some pause for thought).
That is an opinion. The problem I see with personal belief as opposed to religion is that at least their is general consensus within a religion, but if everyone decides for themselves, who's to say that Johny can't live by the rule "survival of the fittest" and eliminate members of society he deems useless while Bob thinks there is nothing wrong with running around in the nude because that's how he was born? And why should dog being god in reverse give me pause for thought? That makes no sense.
The only reason why having sex with animals, infants and people with disabilities which make them mentally vulnerable is wrong is informed consent. You have to speak giraffe to understand if if a giraffe really wants to and if they understand what's being offered and what the consequences are.
If they don't it is almost certainly rape but you would need to have someone who understood giraffe to be certain.
We assume children (especially very young children) don't understand the meaning or dangers of sexual activity. While we can't be certain that mentally capable adults of the same species are fully aware of the ramifications of rubbing their genitals, we have to draw a line somewhere.
A set age where informed consent is assumed is the logical place to draw it. That line can be moved as evidence is brought to lawmakers.
You have some good points there, but of course, being religious, I don't think those are the only reasons. I think that if there is a reason other than "God said so" or "its in the Bible", etc. then that sexual act is more wrong than it would be if it was only stated in the Bible or by the Church.
It's not set in stone based on a gut feeling that someone in the bronze age had about what an invisible being had in mind.
Again, that is assuming that God doesn't exist and I don't think he can be conclusively proven to be real or unreal, unless through a supernatural experience. Even then it is only proven to that person and not everyone, so believe what you will, but hopefully you (and I think you do) realize that their isn't enough evidence against God that you can come in with your "superior intellect" and disprove him conclusively.
Stealing cars is illegal because if everyone did it society would collapse into violent anarchy which may seem fun looking from the outside (popular computer games are built on this concept) but wouldn't be if you actually lived through it. It's not even remotely the same thing as consensual manipulation of genitals for private pleasure and to argue it is is frankly nutty.
I was not comparing stealing cars to homosexuality, but rather making a point that it is possible, as Warbler mentioned, to love the sinner and not the sin. I was defending the fact that it is possible for Catholics to not hate homosexuals, but love them, and accept only their homosexual acts as wrong.
The only reason incestuous sex is wrong between consenting adults is because of the high potential for creating genetically deformed babies that will suffer.
The only reason why it's wrong for a person in a position of authority over someone else entering into a sexual relationship with that person is because there is no way of knowing for sure if that authority deformed the informed consent between two people.
It's all practical stuff that makes logical and ethical sense.
It's made messy by the disgust response which is a variable animal biological mechanism for avoiding disease and promoting reproduction.
I see no practical problem with informed adult incest between people who can't have babies but I understand the social structures against such a move.
I don't see why people with a high probability of producing a suffering child would continue down the path of producing children but I understand the social structures supporting such a move.
Again, I think that those sexual acts that can cause objectively harmful side affects are worse than those that only cause subjectively harmful ones.
But at no point would I introduce an invisible tyrant to spy on my private life and equate it to child rape even remotely.
Again, that is an opinion. I do not condemn you for opinions of yours I find very offensive, so please don't condemn me for my beliefs even if they seem outrageous.
I do not lump all sex acts I believe wrong into one. There are varying degrees of seriousness between them, and child rape is not the same thing as homosexuality or sex outside of marriage, as the latter two are much less serious (serious nonetheless in my opinion, but much less serious just as stealing a car is serious but is still far less worse than murder).
What is sin?
Sin is to miss the mark. To sway away from the directed course.
If you set a different course you aren't in sin by default. You have to be a Roman Catholic to commit a Roman Catholic sin (however the church assumes all people to be subject to their God).
The Church teaches that Catholics will be judged more harshly than others, so even if you commit a serious sin by Catholic standards, the Catholic Church doesn't believe that you're automatically going to hell. We believe that God is merciful as well as being just (I know they seem contradictory, but I'm not getting into that right now), so God will allow for your situation and beliefs on earth when judging you. If it seems offensive to you that I believe you will be judged by my God, then I am sorry, I don't mean offense.
Who elected this God person anyway?
The position of most Abrahamic religions is that sex is for one thing and one thing only and that is to create children. Theologically it has it's basis in the Mesopotamian myth of the Garden of Eden. Adam and his third wife Eve steals the power of reproduction from God after listening to a talking peni...snake.
The story of the Garden of Eden is recognized as an allegorical story by most Catholics, and as such there are details that are not necessarily literal. The statement "Adam and his third wife Eve"...hold on, third wife? Where did that come from? Anyway, "steals the power of reproduction from God"--have you read that story, or are you referring to a different Mesopotamian myth on which the Biblical story is based, or vice versa? It is not even implied that they did not have sex or could not have sex before eating the allegorical "apple." All it says is that "they were not ashamed" of their nakedness, not that they had no sexual attraction towards each other, or couldn't reproduce.
Therefore the magic wish power must only be used in a sanctified way.
Politically if you can control who has sex by issuing a sex license and periodically allow massacres of people who don't have the same license you can rake in a lot of cash.
The Roman Catholics don't do this much anymore but give them or the Scientologists et al enough inches and they will make a rule of it. Dogma needs no recourse to reason, especially when there is money to be made.
Historically the Catholic Church has been a den of every kind of nasty behavior (torture, murder, political assassination) but even recently.
The members of the Catholic Church are not perfect, and Church leaders (Popes, Bishops, et al.) have made mistakes--serious mistakes--in the past and present. That shouldn't be enough to discredit our religion though if that is what you believe.
We have too many people on the Earth as it is so this obsession with biological reproduction that most humans seem to have isn't currently practical.
Make spaceships and then you can make babies left right and centre.
It also isn't sustainable for older generations to have greater populations than younger generations (unless you kill off all the old people which is an acceptable solution for some people, but I would beg to differ).
