logo Sign In

Ask the member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints AKA Interrogate the Mormon — Page 2

Author
Time

doubleKO said:


With the rules for Mormons seeming to be more morally strict than other Christian denominations, I am even more confused by the whole polygamy angle. What is the rationale or justification behind it?


I think the Mormons who practice polygamy are outside of the "mainstream" Mormon sect.

Author
Time

Still confused.

Why is tea bad? There is so little caffeine in it...and it has health benefits...and...

...

...baffled.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

After visiting Colorado last summer I was left wondering about Mormons so this thread is already of interest. 

My thing is this; why is the theology based on the teachings of some guy in the 1800's who claimed he had visions of God instead of historic scripture? You cant base a religion on the Bible and the teachings of Christ and then add a bunch of new rules to it.Granted the Bible has many variations and authors but providing the intent of the teachings of Christ are preserved what else matters? Why make up a whole new set of rules for earning your way into heaven when the teachings are what is important and they are already established?

Lots of branches of Christianity have crazy rules and traditions that come from man and not God. People tend to forget that Jesus did not stress the importance of ceremonies or traditions. He didn't say "Make sure to ring the little bell three times to make it Holy" Or "Its more Holy when you do a mass in Latin" (Digs on the Catholics ; )

He taught about the importance of loving God and each other. Also that we are sinful by our nature and therefore we can't ever behave well enough here on earth to earn a spot in heaven. It is by the grace of God we are saved and that comes with faith and trying to behave the way he taught us.

Now that's not saying I think Christians should behave badly just because its human nature to sin. But as far as rules for how we should live Christ essentially is saying, Try to live the way God wants you to live because that system works. He was a patient and forgiving teacher.

Sorry that's not a very clear post. Here is another question;

I understand masturbation is not allowed and that is based on a passage from Genesis? If that is correct I would wonder how that connection was made since the passage is not really about that.

 

Peace. Be excellent to each other..

 

 

Author
Time

Midnight_Trooper said:


I understand masturbation is not allowed

I'm out.

;-)

Author
Time

Hey these are the points that really matter. LOL

Every school child knows;

When something is hard you work it out until you finish the job.

 

Author
Time

Midnight_Trooper said:

You cant base a religion on the Bible and the teachings of Christ and then add a bunch of new rules to it.

And why not?

The Old Testament is the written down oral tradition and selective filtering of Canaanite religious stories with a nice dollop of Mesopotamian myth.

The New Testament builds on that, as does the Qu'ran.

Each has adjusted the style of presentation and content of scripture to go with the times (while steadfastly pretending to be God's Original Vision).

Why shouldn't Americans make their own additions to be misunderstood and argued over for centuries to come?

The Koreans have.

Sure lots of bad things have been done using these exciting tales as justification but a lot of good things have been too.

Who is to say that human nature being as it is, things of a similar nature wouldn't have happened without blaming books?

Author
Time

Tyrphanax said:

 I understand why people choose religion as their security blanket, but I will never understand why they choose religion as their security blanket.

huh?  I do not understand what you are saying here.   Do you or do you not understand why they choose religion as their security blanket?

 

Author
Time

I guess it just comes down to what you think the intention of religion is. If you think its just a system of rules about not doing certain things or you go to hell then absolutely there are Many versions of this based on Christianity. 

But if you believe in Jesus and understand the "new deal" he taught us about then the only thing that should govern your everyday life are his teachings.

 

An example of branches of Christianity who make up rules and say they come from God is the whole gay bashing thing."God hates gays." Umm.. God doesnt hate anybody. And even though the bible contains of few examples of homosexual acts being not want God wants, it is never said you Will go to hell if you indulge in them. Nor does it list "Thou shalt not be gay" as a commandment.

So why do these crazy religious people jump all over that issue? Why is being gay a Bigger sin than "Thou shall not steal, kill, commit adultery, covet thy neighbors stuff or wife?

Just to clarify I am not gay, I just see a lot of these sort of things at the Liberal Arts school I work at.

 

Author
Time

Midnight_Trooper said:

Hey these are the points that really matter. LOL

Every school child knows;

When something is hard you work it out until you finish the job.

 

lol

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

Author
Time

Warbler said:

Tyrphanax said:

 I understand why people choose religion as their security blanket, but I will never understand why they choose religion as their security blanket.

huh?  I do not understand what you are saying here.   Do you or do you not understand why they choose religion as their security blanket?

 

What I was saying was that I understand from a psychological standpoint why people look for answers or purpose or whatever, but I have no idea why people choose lines of thought that also have utterly ridiculous caveats like "no coffee" or "no masturbation" or "you have to marry your rapist" or "no shaving" or any other number of crazy rules that all religions have.

I was just tying to imply such without being too inflammatory. But I guess that's defenestrated now!

 

Also, I feel this Flash file is appropriate: http://thebest404pageever.com/swf/Mormon_Jesus.swf

It's how I learned everything I know about Mormons.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

Author
Time

what religion has a rule requiring a you to marry the person that rapes you?   

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Christianity.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (King James Version) 

28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

Author
Time

Midnight_Trooper said:

Hey these are the points that really matter. LOL

Every school child knows;

When something is hard you work it out until you finish the job.

 

Hilarious.

Your discussion about Jesus is great by the way. I like Jesus, I just don't like some of the jerk-offs that follow him. Even the Muslims are down with Jesus, they just see him as a prophet and not as the son of God.

I also liked reading some of Acts as a kid. I love that Paul was a like hey, don't get hung up petty rules. If your neighbor doesn't eat what you eat, don't freak out. Just be cool and eat it. (I'm high and my paraphrasing is little too relaxed perhaps).

@Darth_Ender

Hey man, I actually like Mitt Romney for being the most level headed guy in the Republican race (and being the most moderate). I don't care that he's mormon, I care that he's not waving his religion around like a maniac. He's a politician who happens to be a Mormon. That's better than Bachman or Perry who act like their religion makes them a better candidate. For Christ's sake Perry held days of prayer for the Texas drought and the economy (it didn't help). Say what you want about Obama's plan to solve our economic woes but at least he's not just going to "give it to God."

If there is a God (and there isn't) I doubt he gives half a shit about the economy. I think he would care about how people react to adversity and how the fortunate help the unfortunate through tough times. I don't mean "raise taxes" or "increase services," I mean donating time and money and helping people on a personal level.

My uber religious grandparents (Methodists) had strangers and refugees living in their modest home my entire childhood. They were smart enough to stay the fuck out of politics and just worry about what they can do to help the people that crossed their path. It bugged my grandpa that I am not religious and we've talk at length about how it doesn't take religion to be that kind of person. I think he agrees on some level but still worries about my soul and all that silliness.

Sorry for the rant but I get chatty when I smoke. I'm in a playful mood, and I hope my tone reflects that.

If you want a Myspleen invite, just PM me and ask.

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Once-upon-a-time-on-MySpleen/topic/12652/

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Tyrphanax said:

Christianity.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (King James Version) 

28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

hmm, didn't read those verses before.  

Author
Time

walkingdork said:

If there is a God (and I think there isn't) I doubt he gives half a shit about the economy.

fixed.

Author
Time

Genesis 38: 9-10

9And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

 10And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

I think this is the masturbation reference. It doesn't apply today because

  1. We have carpeting now and that is just gross
  2. Kleenex was invented

If you want a Myspleen invite, just PM me and ask.

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Once-upon-a-time-on-MySpleen/topic/12652/

Author
Time

Warbler said:

walkingdork said:

If there is a God (and I think there isn't) I doubt he gives half a shit about the economy.

fixed.

It's a joke I stole from the Simpsons. Homer says, "Lisa, if the Bible has taught us nothing else - and it hasn't - it's that girls should stick to girls' sports, such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing and such and such."

 

If you want a Myspleen invite, just PM me and ask.

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Once-upon-a-time-on-MySpleen/topic/12652/

Author
Time

Warbler said:

Tyrphanax said:

Christianity.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (King James Version) 

28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

hmm, didn't read those verses before.  

Just about half of the rules in Deuteronomy are pretty whacky.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

Author
Time

walkingdork said:

Genesis 38: 9-10

9And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

 10And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

I think this is the masturbation reference...

That could just as easily be about pulling out before blowing your load.

But, I guess the 'LORD' would be against that, as well.

Star Wars Episode XXX: Erica Strikes Back

         Davnes007 LogoCanadian Flag

          If you want Nice, go to France

Author
Time

Pretty sure God was upset at Onan because he refused to follow the instruction to get his late brother's wife pregnant so that the line could be carried on. It was different times.

Star Wars Revisited Wordpress

Star Wars Visual Comparisons WordPress

Author
Time

And then he drank tea?

STILL CONFUSED!!!!

*sob*

Author
Time

What I like about the Islamic take on Jesus (Isa) is he could talk when he was a baby and he stands up for his mother Maryam when she comes home with this apparently fatherless child.

He also talks to her while he is still in the womb and calms her down after miraculously feeding her and giving her water.

So while he might not literally be the son of God he does have some pretty cool superpowers.

And why not?

If God can author the entire universe a talking baby is a doddle.

He also dodges the crucifixion by making everyone think Judas was him so he got nailed up instead (Doctor Who has nothing on Isa).

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Uh, wow.  When the cat's away, the mice will sit around and ask lots of questions.

To C3PS, I had hoped to type up the argument for the Book of Abraham myself, but as it is already probably the longest point to make and so many things have been brought up, I will briefly summarize my stance and refer you to this website, which also has responses to numerous other criticisms.  The link I gave you specifically refers to the Book of Abraham, but look around and you might find some other interesting info.  Anyway, to sum up the possibilities, it must be first acknowledged that only a fraction of the total number of papyrus scrolls Joseph Smith had have been found.  Thus, the following theories, taken from the linked website, include that fact:

"1) The text was revealed much in the same manner as that of the Book of Mormon, without the need for the actual papyri, 2) The text was present on portions of the papyri that are missing, and 3) The Book of Abraham manuscript was attached to the Book of Breathings manuscript and was lost. 4) Perhaps there was a way of understanding the Egyptian ideograms anciently that is unknown to Egyptology in our day, yet to be discovered, deciphered or acknowledged, that could yield an interpretation of a text that is different than the standard Egyptological reading."

My interpretation is essentially the first theory.  According to the Book of Abraham, Abe taught the Egyptians astronomy and many sciences, as well as the nature of God (some of this is actually stated by Joseph Smith, since the Book itself was never completely published).  If he taught them and there was any acceptance of it, many of their sciences would be influenced by his teachings.  The actual scrolls date from much later than Abraham's time.  Thus, in my opinion, they are actually what remained of his teaching couched in Egyptian mythology.  Joseph Smith's translation was likely a restoration of what Abraham's original message had been.  This website here shows a number of surprising parallels between Joseph Smith's translation and what Egyptologists have deciphered.  Hope this is at least a good starting point for you.

In response to Frink's inquiry, I'm sure I will take flak for this, but sometimes a person of faith acts on faith, even if they are not sure why.  Sometimes God simply wishes to test our obedience.  Looking at the kosher laws of the Old Testament, God did not mention how much cholesterol or the various parasites you might find in pork.  They simply obeyed because God wanted them to.  "Oh no!  Blind faith!"

More to follow soon...