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Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister? — Page 3

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Originally posted by: Dug
I wish the sibling thing hadn't happened at all, and I wish the "point of view" thing hadn't happened at all. There was an easy way to "fix" this, if you will... and that was simply to make Luke the son of Darth Vader, i.e., the Darth Vader as a name and person (not a title) and there was an Anakin, too, and he really was killed by Darth Vader. We can still carry many of the same themes as before. Luke senses good in his father, he feels he can turn him back. Leia could still be the child of Skywalker, and she could still be used as Vader's threat to turn him, etc., ("If you will not turn, then perhaps she will"). It still works. All they had to do was make these two little changes, and everything would have been just fine. No P.O.V. No lying Obi-Wan. I would appreciate the OT tremendously more.


Well, Obi-Wan still would have lied, since he claimed Vader murdered his father...UNLESS...

During the Clone Wars, Anakin was cloned without his knowledge - that clone, subservient to Palpatine, would become Darth Vader. He would have killed Anakin, infiltrated the Jedi Order, impregnated Padme (who assumed it was Anakin the entire time), and when the destruction of the Jedi was nearly complete, reveal everything to Obi-Wan in a Bond-villainesque kind of way. The one thing Darth Vader didn't plan on, in this scenario, was Obi-Wan beating him down in a duel near a volcano.

How does that twist work?

Want to book yourself or a guest on THE VFP Show? PM me!

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Originally posted by: vote_for_palpatine
Well, Obi-Wan still would have lied, since he claimed Vader murdered his father...UNLESS...

During the Clone Wars, Anakin was cloned without his knowledge - that clone, subservient to Palpatine, would become Darth Vader. He would have killed Anakin, infiltrated the Jedi Order, impregnated Padme (who assumed it was Anakin the entire time), and when the destruction of the Jedi was nearly complete, reveal everything to Obi-Wan in a Bond-villainesque kind of way. The one thing Darth Vader didn't plan on, in this scenario, was Obi-Wan beating him down in a duel near a volcano.

How does that twist work?


Pretty sweet idea. A little hard to explain though.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Tiptup
Originally posted by: vote_for_palpatine
Well, Obi-Wan still would have lied, since he claimed Vader murdered his father...UNLESS...

During the Clone Wars, Anakin was cloned without his knowledge - that clone, subservient to Palpatine, would become Darth Vader. He would have killed Anakin, infiltrated the Jedi Order, impregnated Padme (who assumed it was Anakin the entire time), and when the destruction of the Jedi was nearly complete, reveal everything to Obi-Wan in a Bond-villainesque kind of way. The one thing Darth Vader didn't plan on, in this scenario, was Obi-Wan beating him down in a duel near a volcano.

How does that twist work?


Pretty sweet idea. A little hard to explain though.


Hard for the characters, as in Obi-Wan explaining to Luke? Well, nothing has to change otherwise. When Obi-Wan tells Luke his father's history, Obi-Wan doesn't know that Vader's his father; he assumed the entire time that Anakin was. (In my scenario, Vader didn't reveal his impending fatherhood because he didn't know about it himself, nor did he care - he was just fulfilling his role as the Emperor's mole)

So how does Vader know that Luke is his son? Inductive reasoning. Last name Skywalker, considers the possibility that he may have impregnated Padme during his "mole time", he can sense Luke's midichlorian count, uh, I mean, strength in the Force. Presumably, Vader's own strength in the Force permits him to put all of that evidence together - after all, he located the Rebels after a quick viewing of the powr generators on Hoth.

The only thing lacking with this storyline is Obi-Wan's explanatin to Luke - the content is more consistent than before, but not entirely consistent.

"A young Jedi named Darth Vader - who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil - helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father...now the Jedi are all but extinct."

In the Anakin-clone scenario, Vader didn't betray; in a betrayal you first earn the confidence of the victim. The Episode III dialogue explaining that away would have been very...contrived.

Plus, in this scenario, the POV scene would have needed to be redone with Ewan McGregor giving all-new dialogue. I liked McGregor as Obi-Wan a lot, but the last thing ROTJ needs is the insertion of one of the PT actors as a Force ghost to...oh, that's been done already. Disregard.

Want to book yourself or a guest on THE VFP Show? PM me!

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Originally posted by: vote_for_palpatine
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Originally posted by: vote_for_palpatine
Well, Obi-Wan still would have lied, since he claimed Vader murdered his father...UNLESS...

During the Clone Wars, Anakin was cloned without his knowledge - that clone, subservient to Palpatine, would become Darth Vader. He would have killed Anakin, infiltrated the Jedi Order, impregnated Padme (who assumed it was Anakin the entire time), and when the destruction of the Jedi was nearly complete, reveal everything to Obi-Wan in a Bond-villainesque kind of way. The one thing Darth Vader didn't plan on, in this scenario, was Obi-Wan beating him down in a duel near a volcano.

How does that twist work?


Pretty sweet idea. A little hard to explain though.


Hard for the characters, as in Obi-Wan explaining to Luke? Well, nothing has to change otherwise. When Obi-Wan tells Luke his father's history, Obi-Wan doesn't know that Vader's his father; he assumed the entire time that Anakin was. (In my scenario, Vader didn't reveal his impending fatherhood because he didn't know about it himself, nor did he care - he was just fulfilling his role as the Emperor's mole)

So how does Vader know that Luke is his son? Inductive reasoning. Last name Skywalker, considers the possibility that he may have impregnated Padme during his "mole time", he can sense Luke's midichlorian count, uh, I mean, strength in the Force. Presumably, Vader's own strength in the Force permits him to put all of that evidence together - after all, he located the Rebels after a quick viewing of the powr generators on Hoth.

The only thing lacking with this storyline is Obi-Wan's explanatin to Luke - the content is more consistent than before, but not entirely consistent.

"A young Jedi named Darth Vader - who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil - helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father...now the Jedi are all but extinct."

In the Anakin-clone scenario, Vader didn't betray; in a betrayal you first earn the confidence of the victim. The Episode III dialogue explaining that away would have been very...contrived.

Plus, in this scenario, the POV scene would have needed to be redone with Ewan McGregor giving all-new dialogue. I liked McGregor as Obi-Wan a lot, but the last thing ROTJ needs is the insertion of one of the PT actors as a Force ghost to...oh, that's been done already. Disregard.


Now that you mention it, it is very surprising Lucas hasn't made Ewan do all of Obi-Wan's force ghost appearances and replaced all of Alec Guinness' work.
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Originally posted by: vote_for_palpatine
Hard for the characters, as in Obi-Wan explaining to Luke?


Yeah, it would be a rather involved explanation and that's just for Luke. Some people watching the movie would probably be confused by some of the concepts without Ben relating a lot of the details.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Tiptup
Originally posted by: vote_for_palpatine
Hard for the characters, as in Obi-Wan explaining to Luke?


Yeah, it would be a rather involved explanation and that's just for Luke. Some people watching the movie would probably be confused by some of the concepts without Ben relating a lot of the details.


It is still an awsome concept.


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Originally posted by: zombie84
As i uncovered in my book, the creation of a Leia Skywalker was done in order to hide a plot hole..."


You wrote a book? Is it available for purchase?

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Originally posted by: darkhelmet
Originally posted by: zombie84
As i uncovered in my book, the creation of a Leia Skywalker was done in order to hide a plot hole..."


You wrote a book? Is it available for purchase?




The Secret History of Star Wars
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Hey Zombie! Thanks for the link to your e-book. I'm gonna check it out.

Ever thought of hooking up with an on-demand publisher so that those who were interested (like me) could get a bound edition?
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Originally posted by: darkhelmet
Hey Zombie! Thanks for the link to your e-book. I'm gonna check it out.

Ever thought of hooking up with an on-demand publisher so that those who were interested (like me) could get a bound edition?


Due to copyright issues that will not be possible. However, you are free to print and bind it yourself!

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Well, Obi-Wan still would have lied, since he claimed Vader murdered his father...UNLESS...

No, not if Vader and Anakin are two separate people, and Vader actually did killed Anakin.

Oh, wait, maybe I see your confusion...

Vader and some unnamed woman (perhaps a Sith Lady who was part of the 'seduction' to the dark side) have Luke as their child.

Anakin and Lady Skywalker have Leia.

Lady Skywalker, to protect Leia from the Emperor switches the children to throw Vader off the track, so he'd end up killing his own child while Leia is safe and sound with Bail.

Obi-Wan, of course, would not be aware of this, he'd actually believe that Luke was indeed the son of Skywalker. Yoda, of course, would know of the deception, or the Force would guide his thoughts to this conclusion.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
Due to copyright issues that will not be possible. However, you are free to print and bind it yourself!

Copyright, shmopyright! Blllpppp! I'm gonna make a fan, preservation edit of your book. Wait; that wouldn't work would it? Darn. Guess I hafta resort to binding it myself. Cool project, though. Seems like a great resource.

Any chance you could shop the idea to Lucas? Maybe get access to the Lucas archives? Boy, who am I kidding?
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Originally posted by: darkhelmet
Originally posted by: zombie84
Due to copyright issues that will not be possible. However, you are free to print and bind it yourself!

Copyright, shmopyright! Blllpppp! I'm gonna make a fan, preservation edit of your book. Wait; that wouldn't work would it? Darn. Guess I hafta resort to binding it myself. Cool project, though. Seems like a great resource.

Any chance you could shop the idea to Lucas? Maybe get access to the Lucas archives? Boy, who am I kidding?



Haha, yeah. Although, I am working on a second edition of the book which should be due out in early May--don't know if you want to hold off until then (though it will mostly be as it is now, barring a significant overhaul of the Journal of the Whills appendix).
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Originally posted by: zombie84
Originally posted by: darkhelmet
Any chance you could shop the idea to Lucas? Maybe get access to the Lucas archives? Boy, who am I kidding?
Originally posted by: zombie84
Haha, yeah.

No, seriously. I could be your agent. Really... Okay, not really.
Originally posted by: zombie84
Although, I am working on a second edition of the book which should be due out in early May--don't know if you want to hold off until then (though it will mostly be as it is now, barring a significant overhaul of the Journal of the Whills appendix).

I just downloaded the ebook, but a second edition sounds interesting, too. What motivated you to write such a comprehensive history?

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A glaring void of ignorance and revisionism. To put it simply. I mean none of this stuff has been tied together like this and somebody had to do it.

Really a lot of this stuff is fairly well known to any fan who was alive in 1977 but sadly those people account for a small, marginalised fraction of the fanbase, and one that shrinks by the year--soon they will be all gone and all we will be left with is these types of history books, so i guess it is good that one is written sooner rather than later for the sake of accuracy. But it seemed that i was spending a lot of time on the internet discussing the history of the series and presenting this information to people who seemed completely oblivious of it and why not just spend all that writing time and put it into a book. 2005 was a slow year for me, anyway , which is where i researched and wrote most of this.
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Zombie, I still will say that alot of OT fans went with the changes from 77-83, cause all of my friends saw SW in '77, and we all knew by '83 that Luke/Leia/Vader family affair was changed, but the movies were so good, you kinda went with the story. And I think that is what alot of people miss, if the quality is good, I am willing to change my views towards the movies.

I loved ESB, but the Vader/Luke angle came out of nowhere, and the series seemed to get away from the macro aspect of ANH, to a more personal story in ESB with Luke/Vader, and that finally all came to head in 1983. I will be honest, I am one of the few who don't love Vader/Luke revelation, as I think it created just as many fans as it turned off, but ESB is damn good of a movie, I accepted the story. For me personaly, ESB is the only sequel besides Godfather II that is just as good as the original, and that to me is a real achievement to have movie magic in 2 movies from the same series.

I think SW will always live on with kids as we get older, cause I see my nephews and their friends enjoy the movies now, but the difference is when they get older they are going to discover the quality issues we discovered too. It is very easy for a kid to fall in love with a lightsaber or the millenium falcon, hell I did it back in 1977, but it is another thing for those same fans to still love those movies 10-15 years later, and that is where the PT/Saga fans will become a true niche fanbase, once the PT generation grows up.

I always use ROTJ as my analogy to the PT kids who love the movies now. I loved ROTJ as a kid in 1983, I thought it was better then ESB, but once I hit highschool and plopped in the trilogy on VHS around 1990-91, all of the sudden as an adult you understand what are the better movies, and ROTJ was just OK only cause it was SW. Now think of the PT, and times that by 3 movies, do you think kids in their 20's aren't going to notice Jake Lloyd & Jar Jar in TPM? The AOTC romance with Padme/Anakin? The ridiculous events that eventually lead to Anakin turning in ROTS? This is all stuff they will notice as they get older, just as I noticed as I got older that the Ewoks are kiddy, Jabbas Palace goes on too long, and the kiddification of SW actually began in 1983.

Trust me guys, quality always rules out in the end.
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I find it easy to believe luke and leia are brother and sister since it fits so well with the story in rotj. What confuses me now, taking a look at everything as it is at this point (we all know lucas could change it tomorrow because he's never finished) is why obiwan thought luke was the last hope when according to lucas bullshit storyline in the prequels, obiwan knows of both children.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Originally posted by: Anchorhead
Originally posted by: MJR80
... it does seem like Lucas was making things up as he went along... He may have felt a burden to conjure another "plot twist" or "surprise"


He was. It's been confirmed several times over. He didn't have a story beyond Star Wars. Vader-as-father, Leia-as-sister - none of that was there in his "original vision" and the weakness of story, by inventing them later, is obvious. As I've said before, he took an outer space adventure that was on a grand scale - and reduced it to The Wizard Of Oz. Their being related feels out of place and added on - because it was.

He didn't even know what to do with it after he added it. It's not only cheap - it serves absolutely no purpose in the story. It's a useless, weak story arc that goes nowhere. It's embarrasing enough that he made up stuff up on the fly - turns out he's not even good at it.


In answer to the question - Star Wars for me consists of a single film. An outer space adventure in a galaxy far away - and none of the characters are related to each other. They weren't when I was a kid - they aren't now. It's not even a consideration when I watch Star Wars. I can't pretend or imagine they are because I know they aren't. I know they weren't when the story was first written and I know it was thought up later.

Revisionist history only works on people who weren't there during the actual history.


Nah, it works in Return of the Jedi.

1. Leia revealing her connection to luke with han, settles han's feelings about leia's strong feelings for luke.

2. Giving Luke the truth about his sister leads to vader discovering this information during the final duel. Without the emotional thrust of us having known leia throughout two movies, vader's threat of turning her to the dark side wouldn't have held as much weight, I think. So we wouldn't know fully why that thought sends luke into a frenzy. But Leia being a likable, though fiesty little woman, gives us a clearer understanding of luke's feelings.

I think I might be in the minority but I loved it. Yoda's final words before death are "there is another skywalker... cough cough" and luke's left to be wondering "WTF?" And then Obi-wan's ghost clues him in nicely. Which of course leads to the pay-off of the set-up, which is Vader discovering the truth himself by probing luke's mind... it seems to work fine for all dramatic purposes here, really. If it were just a throw away detail that didn't matter at all to the story like anakin building threepio, then I'd understand all the fuss over it.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Originally posted by: CO
Zombie, I still will say that alot of OT fans went with the changes from 77-83, cause all of my friends saw SW in '77, and we all knew by '83 that Luke/Leia/Vader family affair was changed, but the movies were so good, you kinda went with the story. And I think that is what alot of people miss, if the quality is good, I am willing to change my views towards the movies.

I loved ESB, but the Vader/Luke angle came out of nowhere, and the series seemed to get away from the macro aspect of ANH, to a more personal story in ESB with Luke/Vader, and that finally all came to head in 1983. I will be honest, I am one of the few who don't love Vader/Luke revelation, as I think it created just as many fans as it turned off, but ESB is damn good of a movie, I accepted the story. For me personaly, ESB is the only sequel besides Godfather II that is just as good as the original, and that to me is a real achievement to have movie magic in 2 movies from the same series.

I think SW will always live on with kids as we get older, cause I see my nephews and their friends enjoy the movies now, but the difference is when they get older they are going to discover the quality issues we discovered too. It is very easy for a kid to fall in love with a lightsaber or the millenium falcon, hell I did it back in 1977, but it is another thing for those same fans to still love those movies 10-15 years later, and that is where the PT/Saga fans will become a true niche fanbase, once the PT generation grows up.

I always use ROTJ as my analogy to the PT kids who love the movies now. I loved ROTJ as a kid in 1983, I thought it was better then ESB, but once I hit highschool and plopped in the trilogy on VHS around 1990-91, all of the sudden as an adult you understand what are the better movies, and ROTJ was just OK only cause it was SW. Now think of the PT, and times that by 3 movies, do you think kids in their 20's aren't going to notice Jake Lloyd & Jar Jar in TPM? The AOTC romance with Padme/Anakin? The ridiculous events that eventually lead to Anakin turning in ROTS? This is all stuff they will notice as they get older, just as I noticed as I got older that the Ewoks are kiddy, Jabbas Palace goes on too long, and the kiddification of SW actually began in 1983.

Trust me guys, quality always rules out in the end.


One can hope. I like to view movies through a kid's unbiased, completely ignorant eyes. In fact, funny thing is that I was a kid when tpm was released. I loved the duel of the fates, but everything else in my mind "didn't live up to the great trailer." It wasn't a question about whether it stacked up to the originals. We were all hoping and praying whatever mistakes lucas made in tpm were because "he was rusty" and he'd tie things up nicely by the time he was done. Of course we learned that he was planning to put Nsync in the movies instead...

So well, Yes I'm with you. Quality's going to be the winner over time. Now is Nothing. Now is just a after-taste period. As a net-nerd for several years, I know that hype is a POWERFUL thing, this stuff can completely blind people to a films flaws until the novelty of the film wears off and they see all the wrongs when they come back to their senses. So the real test will be years from now, will those kids really still be madly in love with jar jar or whatever. Will they see Lotr and fall for golum instead?

time will tell.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Originally posted by: CO
Zombie, I still will say that alot of OT fans went with the changes from 77-83, cause all of my friends saw SW in '77, and we all knew by '83 that Luke/Leia/Vader family affair was changed, but the movies were so good, you kinda went with the story. And I think that is what alot of people miss, if the quality is good, I am willing to change my views towards the movies.

I loved ESB, but the Vader/Luke angle came out of nowhere, and the series seemed to get away from the macro aspect of ANH, to a more personal story in ESB with Luke/Vader, and that finally all came to head in 1983. I will be honest, I am one of the few who don't love Vader/Luke revelation, as I think it created just as many fans as it turned off, but ESB is damn good of a movie, I accepted the story. For me personaly, ESB is the only sequel besides Godfather II that is just as good as the original, and that to me is a real achievement to have movie magic in 2 movies from the same series.

I think SW will always live on with kids as we get older, cause I see my nephews and their friends enjoy the movies now, but the difference is when they get older they are going to discover the quality issues we discovered too. It is very easy for a kid to fall in love with a lightsaber or the millenium falcon, hell I did it back in 1977, but it is another thing for those same fans to still love those movies 10-15 years later, and that is where the PT/Saga fans will become a true niche fanbase, once the PT generation grows up.

I always use ROTJ as my analogy to the PT kids who love the movies now. I loved ROTJ as a kid in 1983, I thought it was better then ESB, but once I hit highschool and plopped in the trilogy on VHS around 1990-91, all of the sudden as an adult you understand what are the better movies, and ROTJ was just OK only cause it was SW. Now think of the PT, and times that by 3 movies, do you think kids in their 20's aren't going to notice Jake Lloyd & Jar Jar in TPM? The AOTC romance with Padme/Anakin? The ridiculous events that eventually lead to Anakin turning in ROTS? This is all stuff they will notice as they get older, just as I noticed as I got older that the Ewoks are kiddy, Jabbas Palace goes on too long, and the kiddification of SW actually began in 1983.

Trust me guys, quality always rules out in the end.


I have to say, I am not as optimistic. We keep telling ourselves this to make us feel better but evidence seems to suggest otherwise. A cursory glance at the opinions of the mainstream younger fans reveals a nearly complete allegiance to the PT/SE/Saga version of the franchise. Places like this give us sanctuary on the internet--but i mean, why do you think, for instance, The Bashers Sanctuary was closed on TFN? Yes, its because TFN is blatantly pro-LFL--but this is ignorning the larger issue. The larger issue is, why is TFN blatantly pro-LFL? Because they represent the largest mass of Star Wars fans on the internet, and one that is predominantly under 30. I hate to say it, but we are a marginalised speciality group in terms of the fandom, and we are shrinking by the year.

Most of us were introduced to the saga by the OOT, we grew up on the films before the PT and some of us were even around to see them in theaters. We were influenced by the guidance and by the community of people that had the same experience as us. But we are dissapearing. Why do you think that each year the OOT dies a little more? We are getting older and moving away. In 1996 everyone on the net had grown up with the films and at least half had seen them in theaters. In 2001, most of the people had grown up with the original films and some had seen them in theaters. In 2005, some of us had grown up with the original films and a few of us had seen them in theaters. By 2012, a few of us will have grown up with the originals and I will be surprised to see anyone that had seen them in their original run. Its a confirmed fact--look at the age brackt of those individuals: these are mainly in the 35 year old range and represent the people who saw the original when they were four or five. But what happened to the millions who saw them when they were ten and twelve? What happened to the millions who saw them when they were eighteen and twenty? The answer is that they are all in their fifties now and don't belong to the fandom anymore--they continue watching the OOT and have moved on in their life. The sad fact is that the same thing will happen to us. In fifteen years the fandom will be exclusively populated with people who grew up on the PT, and the few old farts like us that are floating around will be such a minority that our opions will not matter or be visible--like all those millions that only like SW 77. Where the hell are all those people now? Anchorhead may literally be the last one around. But OT and Saga fans marginalised that fanbase, pushed them out and now basically no one views the series as just SW 77 anymore.

Star Wars will always be remembered but it will only be with film scholars. They will look at it as a monumental piece of cinema, and some of the more educated fans will appreciate it for that status and will attempt to view it as a historic stand-alone film that gave birth to the saga--but very few, if any, will just watch the OT. Especially since they will see the saga in order and the OT will look like an inconsistent piece of crap (which i have to agree with--when watching it from the PT perspective its not really possible to "get" the OT in such a way that will harbor allegiance).

With regards to quality, you are also right in a way--the quality will determine things. In this case, the PT will be liked but not super-devoted to the way the OOT was with us. You won't have such passionate fans as you did in the 80's because the films aren't really that enjoyable to provoke such devotion. But, like every blockbuster franchise, their will be fans but they will be mostly casual and moderately-hardcore in nature. The other faction will be super-sci-fi nerds that wank off on the parallels to Faust and Hamlet, and the Saga will become a super-specialised niche fandom of nerds and adolescants who haven't yet realised that the films arent great.

Its sad, but i just can't help see it in those ways. Spending time here, and with likeminded OT fans gives you a warped perception of how things are progressing--i hate to say it, but the Starwars.com and theforce.net message boards are more typical of the state of the fandom in some ways. Lucas killed his greatest achievement.

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oooh the basher sanctuary, a rare sight on the internet. It was great, actual intelligent discussion was happening, not rambling 5 year old level bull shit you usually see on tfn.

Star Wars is a Classic. Not just as a film, but as a cultural phenomenon.

And I wouldn't lose that optimism... maybe I'm being stupid but i don't care, so be it. I blindly believe people will naturally gravitate towards better quality. Now I believe there's lasting hype atomosphere still lingering after the pt finished which fuels some's devotion to them, but those doing that will soon grow pubic hair. This has all been said before in a way, actually (I've read some old film books in the library. There were people back in the day worrying about the quality of cinema being hurt by Jaws, which of course became the first blockbuster making way for star wars' success.) The 80s generation definitely was one to praise and eat up ANYTHING, no matter how shitty it was. And I doubt that'll change. We think we're so different from the older gen, but I don't think we are. We're just as dumb as them, and just as smart. We'll bounce back from dancing to the macarena and realize what quality entertainment really is... I hope.

A movie i love to watch to remind myself of the POWER of a great film, is Shawshank Redemption. It's as easy as being a film that I'd want to watch again and again and not feel the need to move on from. Shawshank's prettymuch perfect in my mind, that's how good it is. I'd definitely show these kids that movie unless they're the add sort.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Originally posted by: darkhelmet
Thanks to CO and Zombie for the good discussion below. I didn't know the actual history behind all of this until now.


Ditto. I'd always assumed Lucas was planning the Luke/Leia thing during ESB (with the "There is another" line, etc), yet I'd always been baffled by the kiss. I had no idea he'd just thrown that line in ESB w/o any thought process behind it, and had to fix it later in ROTJ. Very interesting...
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Originally posted by: Wesyeed
I was a kid when tpm was released.


That's why revisionist history and years-later-changes-on-the-fly to the main story work on you.

No matter how hard you try, how thorough your research, how open-minded your discussions, no matter how broad your imagination - one thing you can never be, or truly understand, is someone who was there in 1977. You just weren't.

That's also why you misunderstood the point of my statement about revisionist history not working. You automatically assumed I meant story-wise because that's the only point of reference you can have when speaking of 1977-era Star Wars.

For me, the changes don't work because they can't. I was there.

Now, if you guys will excuse me, I'm two days into my vacation and reading Splinter Of The Mind's Eye. And digging it, by the way.
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Dude it's not my fault I wasn't born before 77. I wish I was.


And "luke I am your father" and "Leia's my sister" work for me because they don't blatantly contradict anything I saw or heard in Star Wars A new Hope... not because I'm pulling this illogically out of my ass. I'm thinking of how it fits in the story, and that's it regardless of what may have been the true intentions of the filmmakers. A lot of films have no set story in place before they're filmed. This happens all the time, so I'm not surprised in the least that that may have happened here too.

and i don't understand how you say you weren't discussing them in terms of the story when you typed these words "It's not only cheap - it serves absolutely no purpose in the story. "
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Zombie, I used to go on TFn and other SW boards and wonder what these people were smoking saying that TPM was better then ANH? But I have come to realize that the internet overall is such a minority of people, that I don't judge the overall opinion whether they agree with me or not. I am the only one of all my friends that are SW fans, who post on SW boards, so right there, it is already a minority just among my peers.

I think you can only start to judge quality as you hit highschool and in your 20's and that is when you will see many people change their views, cause trust me I did a 180 on ROTJ when I was in high school, and I did the same 180 on ESB in that same timespan, coincidence, or did I just grow up?

I grew up in the 80's, and just faintly remember seeing SW in 1977, but I never saw Rocky I in the theater, I never saw Jaws in the theater, and grew up seeing Jaws 2 & Rocky 3 on HBO 10,000 times, and LOVED those movies at the time. But years later when I bought the movies on VHS, and watched the originals, I realized how great the originals were, even though I saw them out of order!

Now of course there will always be PT fans, but there are also Fast & The Furious Fans, so what can you do? So the young fans growing up now will see the saga of 6 movies compared to how we see the OT/PT, but that doesn't mean they won't know what the great movies are. I see the Rocky Saga as 6 movies, cause I enjoy all of them to a certain degree, but in the same vein I realize the Original Rocky is one of the greatest movies of all-time.