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Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?

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I know i do. It's just a little too cute, too out of the blue, too plain and easy and actually not all that believable. It was a horrible way of tying up all the loose ends.

Also too much stuff in Star wars IV contradicts this being an actual possiblity (in a way)...

What do you think?
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Gotta love the (almost) inbreeding implications...

On a serious note, yes, it does seem like Lucas was making things up as he went along... He may have felt a burden to conjure another "plot twist" or "surprise" like The Empire Strikes Back had for RotJ (or at least attempt to make it as good as the plot twist in ESB).
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Originally posted by: MJR80
... it does seem like Lucas was making things up as he went along... He may have felt a burden to conjure another "plot twist" or "surprise"


He was. It's been confirmed several times over. He didn't have a story beyond Star Wars. Vader-as-father, Leia-as-sister - none of that was there in his "original vision" and the weakness of story, by inventing them later, is obvious. As I've said before, he took an outer space adventure that was on a grand scale - and reduced it to The Wizard Of Oz. Their being related feels out of place and added on - because it was.

He didn't even know what to do with it after he added it. It's not only cheap - it serves absolutely no purpose in the story. It's a useless, weak story arc that goes nowhere. It's embarrasing enough that he made up stuff up on the fly - turns out he's not even good at it.


In answer to the question - Star Wars for me consists of a single film. An outer space adventure in a galaxy far away - and none of the characters are related to each other. They weren't when I was a kid - they aren't now. It's not even a consideration when I watch Star Wars. I can't pretend or imagine they are because I know they aren't. I know they weren't when the story was first written and I know it was thought up later.

Revisionist history only works on people who weren't there during the actual history.

"On and on until we win…or the chances are spent”

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It's understandable that a few of the original enthusiasts (those who went numerous times to see Star Wars back in summer 1977), don't accept that revelation. Perhaps the two revelations are weak in a sense (especially the Luke-Leia siblinghood), but what about Empire Strikes Back and its prestige in the film industry? That was arguably the best sequel made... Haha... there is no need to remind anyone that sequels are almost invariably inferior to their predecessors. While Star Wars in 1977 changed the public's perception of all film, ESB tends to alter the way we view sequels: there's a proven fact now that sequels have potential in contrast to the originals. That may be subjective... but it's a common enough opinion to the point that it blends into the objective! The story arc of Vader being Luke's father is forgivable in itself then, isn't it?
Why hello there
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Originally posted by: Anchorhead
Originally posted by: MJR80
... it does seem like Lucas was making things up as he went along... He may have felt a burden to conjure another "plot twist" or "surprise"


He was. It's been confirmed several times over. He didn't have a story beyond Star Wars. Vader-as-father, Leia-as-sister - none of that was there in his "original vision" and the weakness of story, by inventing them later, is obvious. As I've said before, he took an outer space adventure that was on a grand scale - and reduced it to The Wizard Of Oz. Their being related feels out of place and added on - because it was.

He didn't even know what to do with it after he added it. It's not only cheap - it serves absolutely no purpose in the story. It's a useless, weak story arc that goes nowhere. It's embarrasing enough that he made up stuff up on the fly - turns out he's not even good at it.


In answer to the question - Star Wars for me consists of a single film. An outer space adventure in a galaxy far away - and none of the characters are related to each other. They weren't when I was a kid - they aren't now. It's not even a consideration when I watch Star Wars. I can't pretend or imagine they are because I know they aren't. I know they weren't when the story was first written and I know it was thought up later.

Revisionist history only works on people who weren't there during the actual history.






Don't ever leave this place Anchorhead!

And yeah, the whole sibling thing makes no sense, and serves absoluetly no story purpose. As i uncovered in my book, the creation of a Leia Skywalker was done in order to hide a plot hole created by Lucas' decision to abandon his Sequel Trilogy--Yoda's reference to "Another" was meant to set up the character for the third trilogy, but now that the third trilogy was no more this became a lingering plot point. Rather than introduce a new character in the already-cluttered story, Lucas chose to turn one of the pre-existing characters into the "Other" and picked Leia. The reason she was turned not only into the "Other" but Luke's sister was to justify her importance--why would Yoda consider her a "last hope" for the galaxy? She's not that much more important than Han or Mon Mothma. So her importance was justified by biologically relating her to the Skywalker family.

It was a stupid thing to do and Lucas would never have purposefully done so but he ended up writing himself into a corner. He even admits on the ROTJ dvd commentary that "it gets hard to swallow."

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

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Anchorhead, I always love a SW'77 fan, so don't think you are any less of a fan then we are or the saga nazi's at TFN.

I am one of the rare SW'77 and OOT fans, and here is how I have enjoyed the movies for 30 years. Because I saw each movie in the theater in its original release, I never was duped by Lucas that the story was written all out in 1975, so I watch each movie in context of how it was made, but I still enjoy the next installment with changes.

For instance, my favorite movie of all-time is SW'77, so I always watch that as just a standalone space adventure that has a true ending, and I get goosebumps EVERYtime I watch the medal ceremony as Chewy gets the last howl in.

Now I do love ESB, cause it is a great movie, and I watch that one in the context of a more deeper story then SW, where Vader IS Lukes father, and everything isn't happy go lucky like the first SW movie. I get a different set of goosebumps when I watch the ending with Luke/Leia watching Lando/Chewy pull away to save Han, you feel empathy for the characters and share in their struggle.

Now I do like ROTJ with warts and all, and sure Lucas tied everything up to end it all, but I do go with the story, and watch this one in the context that Luke/Leia are siblings, Han/Leia are a couple, and Vader saves the day at the end, but he is still not the MAIN person of the trilogy!

The problem with the PT movies, and why I have trouble adapting my OOT watching style, is you are watching everything BEFORE all the changes, so you can't take the story for what it is as a new installment, these ones lead to the OT, so you have to be on par with Lucas's changes, and thats where I get lost. I can't get over that Padme dies of the will to live, because in ROTJ, Leia says she remembers her mom dying very young?

I hope this makes sense to you guys, but I still say don't let the changes to the OOT affect you from enjoying that trilogy, cause even though SW'77 is my favorite movie of all-time, the OOT is my favorite trilogy of all-time. Yes, ROTJ could have been better, but come on now, it could have worse, it could have been Prequels quality!
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Vader being Luke's father= awesome. Leia being Luke's bro? Ick! It makes the kiss from ESB uncomfortable and almost funny.

24 has started borrowing from Star Wars this year. One of the villains from last year was revealed to be Jack Bauer's brother (and they look nothing alike) and Jack's father is also a baddie. And people are starting to think Jack's nephew is actually his son. YUCK!
George Lucas was seduced by the dark side. The OOT ceased to exist in his mind and became the Special Editions...." "They're more maching now than movies. Twisted and evil."
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Look no further than "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" the novel that was almost the sequel, for proof the whole sister thing was pulled out of someone's thermal exhaust port.


Where were you in '77?

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All i have to say is that it adds some extra emotional punch to the ending (Luke and Leia's reunion is my favorite part of the RotJ ending, yes, even over Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's ghost, although he is still essential to the uplifting effect).

but I think on some levels it works and others it doesn't. for example, I believe Leia should have been the one who lead the final attack on the sheild generator; have Han get shot in the shoulder instead.

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I thought about doing a fan edit of ROTJ where they weren't related at some point.
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The Luke and Leia thing never worked from the beginning. I always liked the "I am your father" thing, but it was clearly made up also. I like how Star Wars has been hijacked and it is now the Anakin Skywalker Saga. I wish it had stuck to its roots as a piece inspired by the Sci-fi and fantasy of Lucas' time. I think all of that is pretty much lost in the PT and to a lesser extent in ROTJ.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: C3PX
I wish it had stuck to its roots as a piece inspired by the Sci-fi and fantasy of Lucas' time. I think all of that is pretty much lost in the PT and to a lesser extent in ROTJ.


ROTJ is where I jumped ship. I left the theater feeling very let down. Lucas had gone into full-on children's film\marketing tie-in mode.


This...

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f20/stonetriple/OwenBeru_dead.jpg

and this...

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f20/stonetriple/poster.gif

...don't work in the same story, and no amount of revisionist history or CGI can fix that. The father\sister arc doesn't work in the story either. It wasn't the original story for a reason.

In the contaminated world that Star Wars has become, you just have to decide what moves you and pick a film. The saga is horribly inconsistent and fragmented. The films don't feel connected, they don't look connected, and they don't work connected.

I chose Star Wars.

By the way, I should take this time to thank you guys for not hammering on me for my film preference. As a Star Wars only fan, I'm in the minority, by far, and I've been taken to task for it plenty of times.

"On and on until we win…or the chances are spent”

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Originally posted by: Anchorhead


By the way, I should take this time to thank you guys for not hammering on me for my film preference. As a Star Wars only fan, I'm in the minority, by far, and I've been taken to task for it plenty of times.


You are the majority, cause everyone I know, including family members, love The Original SW, yet only a handful of my friends are OOT fans. The OOT fans are just a very dedicated fanbase, but there is a reason the Original SW is the highest grossing film of the 6, adjusted and unadjusted for inflation.

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Maybe Anchorhead is in the majority of people, but I doubt he's in the majority in terms of "the fandom." Not that I care. I like Anchorhead just the way he is. His view is always refreshing, and he's certainly the last one to ever get roped into believing anything that Lucas makes up.

But to the topic, after having read most of zombie's book, I actually sympathize with Lucas a bit for this weak bit of storytelling. He was tired of making these movies, ESB had been a real pain in the ass, his marriage was crumbling, and he had to resolve that dangling plot thread somehow. It was his own fault for throwing in a line like, "No, there is another," when he had no idea where it was going to go, but I can understand him wanting to have a life that wasn't Star Wars.

There is no lingerie in space...

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don't exist... then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks... and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming... Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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nope i'm actually one of those people who enjoyed return of the jedi.

The fact that vader is luke's father, leia is his sister makes it more like a greek epic or play.

Lucas even played up the greek play connection in revenge of the sith when anakin tries to change fate and thereby brings about his wifes death.

This is obviously a reference to sophocles famous play oedipus rex.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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When is Hasbro going to make those extra-crispy Owen and Beru figures anyway?


Where were you in '77?

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"Look no further than "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" the novel that was almost the sequel, for proof the whole sister thing was pulled out of someone's thermal exhaust port."

Agreed. It's almost nauseating to read that book because of the thoughts Luke has about Leia.

"This is obviously a reference to sophocles famous play oedipus rex."

LOL..no.
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.


MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.


JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
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Although I do watch and enjoy parts of the PT, I am mostly a OT fan and also a SW only fan. I can accept either and all on their own merit, regardless of how bad I think Ep I is. But my wife, whom I practically turned into a Star Wars fan, is a child of the PT revisionist years and never knew a time when Yoda didn't do cart wheels and the Emporer was known by no sith title. So, she completely freaks and hollers,"EWWWWW" every time we see the incestuous kiss scene in ESB which hinders my desire to ignore it. Which brings me to the fact that I now only acknowledge only the existence of ADM's ESB and no other.
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My 2 cents. Back in the day, the 3 years between Empire and Jedi were great. It was a constant debate of what was going to happen next and who was -'the other'. I don't remember ever thinking Leia could 'the other' , let alone --'sister'.
I held to the thought that Vader was lying to Luke to mess with his head. The Emperor and Vader talked of turning "the son of Skywalker". Anyway, Obi-wan wouldn't lie.
And going off of early production photos of Luke in the black outfit (especially ones showing Luke standing with Vader) had us guessing that a clone of a dark side Luke was 'the other'. That, or a brand new character not yet introduced would answer the big question, --- but not Leia. Vader would of coarse had sensed this when he had her on the Death Star. We kids knew that was just silly.

Also, a side note, I did feel strongly that when Lando looks over the buttons on Hans Carbon freeze unit, we were sure that he set a timer to free Han so he could escape Boba Fett.
What innocent times, and to think Lucas had no more clue of how to tie up the Trilogy then we did.
We've analyzed their attack, sir, and there is a danger.
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And going off of early production photos of Luke in the black outfit (especially ones showing Luke standing with Vader) had us guessing that a clone of a dark side Luke was 'the other'.

Also, a side note, I did feel strongly that when Lando looks over the buttons on Hans Carbon freeze unit, we were sure that he set a timer to free Han so he could escape Boba Fett.

That are some really cool ideas!

I don't know what documentary it was but it's so funny when Mark Hamill tells about the time the told him Leia was going to be his sister in the film. He was so disappointed because he was looking forward to some "serious snogging" with Carrie

Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Originally posted by: ferris209
Although I do watch and enjoy parts of the PT, I am mostly a OT fan and also a SW only fan. I can accept either and all on their own merit, regardless of how bad I think Ep I is. But my wife, whom I practically turned into a Star Wars fan, is a child of the PT revisionist years and never knew a time when Yoda didn't do cart wheels and the Emporer was known by no sith title. So, she completely freaks and hollers,"EWWWWW" every time we see the incestuous kiss scene in ESB which hinders my desire to ignore it. Which brings me to the fact that I now only acknowledge only the existence of ADM's ESB and no other.


Ugh, I hate when people do that. Okay, we all know how they end up being written as relatives. We know that that leads the kiss to being extremely incestuous. But is it really necessary to go crazy apeshit over that every single time the movie plays? It's just really irritating.

There is no lingerie in space...

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don't exist... then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks... and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming... Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I am not bothered at all when I watch ESB and Luke & Leia kiss, cause if you watch it in the context of the movie, they don't know they are siblings at that point of the story, why wouldn't they try to get it on! Now if they kissed AFTER ROTJ and they both knew, then I would probably think that was really creepy by Sir George.
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Exactly. That's how I always think about it.

There is no lingerie in space...

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don't exist... then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks... and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming... Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I'm not a fan of the sister thing, but I did like how Vader used it to goad Luke into fighting him. He started with Luke's friends, figured out he had a sister, invoked Obi-Wan's "failure" just to piss off Luke even more, then raised the possibility of turning Leia to the Dark Side. It was Vader's last truly dark moment, and I wonder how well it would have worked without the existence of Leia as sister. Sure, maybe it would have worked as Luke's love interest, but I don't believe that this particular scene doesn't work as it is.

And ROTJ brought perhaps my favorite moment of any Star Wars movie:

"Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You've failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me."

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