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For once me and Alderaan are on the same page.
真実
Anakin ghost old vs young — Page 3
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Well when it’s Impscum vs. Alderaan you’re likely to be on one of their pages at least a few times out of one hundred times…
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What I think most likely happened is that you grew up on the 97 SE, and you liked parts of the movies and disliked other parts, independent of any other version.
The parts you disliked like Jedi Rocks you quickly accepted as inferior and were eager to replace them in your “perfect version”, but the parts you never had a problem with or enjoyed, like Victory Celebration, remain your preference over the original theatrical releases.
This can be the only explanation for your defense of things like “Alert my Star Destroyer” and nonsense Coruscant edits into the original films.
Victory Celebration is clearly inferior; regardless of one’s subjective musical taste, including shots of different worlds that aren’t even in the movie makes it a terrible edit.
What actually happened is that I had known both versions impartialy and on equal terms, and I could objectively compare the two.
Regarding “Alert my Star Destroyer”, I do not think it is intrinsically good, it is just that the original line was extremely bad.
When it comes to celebration song, it is by far superior to yub nub. That is simply the truth.
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The truth is that you’re only fooling yourself with your claptrap.
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is clearly inferior; regardless of one’s subjective musical taste
I don’t really think that makes any sense.
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What part doesn’t make any sense? You’ve just watched a 2-hour movie, it’s the ending, but instead of winding things down with the setting and characters you’ve been following all along, the camera suddenly cuts away to a bunch of nonsense that isn’t even in the rest of the movie.
How does that fit exactly?
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Because it’s showing the galaxy celebrating the destruction of the death star. The 97 ending is the only good se change to Jedi, although the new rancor composite doesn’t bother me.
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Because it’s showing the galaxy celebrating the destruction of the death star.
Which is stupid if you consider the Empire giving up the ghost just 'cause Palps is gone a stupid idea.
Of course, YMMV.
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It’s all about narrative. After you’ve been doing heavy lifting with Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, Lando, the droids, and all their friends and allies for a couple of hours (even the ewoks), and they’re ready for a final celebration and goodbye, you don’t tell them to hold on and wait a few minutes, because you need to wander around the galaxy and peek behind the curtain and see what these other planets are up to who weren’t even in the rest of the movie.
That doesn’t even touch on the fact that some place like Coruscant, for example, is not going to be celebrating the destruction of its own military forces.
Return of the Jedi is the characters’ story. The ones who actually appeared in the movie. It’s not George Lucas and the universe of Star Wars story. We don’t stop the movie so we can devote pointless camera time to random creatures that pop out of walls but have nothing to do with the story. We don’t fly off to fifteen different planets and subtitle each one of them just so we can make new Wookiepedia entries and masturbate to them in our sleep.
We just don’t do those things. We stay with our characters and our intimate setting and that’s the story.
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Because it’s showing the galaxy celebrating the destruction of the death star.
Which is stupid if you consider the Empire giving up the ghost just 'cause Palps is gone a stupid idea.
The only thing stupid here is to assume that the Empire has given up. Showing spontaneous celebrations/uprisings when people heard Emperor was dead do not indicate in any way that Empire has given up. Killing Emperor and his successor in a system where all the power is concentrated in one man would certainly cause enough confusion for such uprisings to be possible (at least until they crack them down). It is not the first uprising in history that has been eventually cracked down.
真実
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It’s all about narrative. After you’ve been doing heavy lifting with Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, Lando, the droids, and all their friends and allies for a couple of hours (even the ewoks), and they’re ready for a final celebration and goodbye, you don’t tell them to hold on and wait a few minutes, because you need to wander around the galaxy and peek behind the curtain and see what these other planets are up to who weren’t even in the rest of the movie.
That doesn’t even touch on the fact that some place like Coruscant, for example, is not going to be celebrating the destruction of its own military forces.
Return of the Jedi is the characters’ story. The ones who actually appeared in the movie. It’s not George Lucas and the universe of Star Wars story. We don’t stop the movie so we can devote pointless camera time to random creatures that pop out of walls but have nothing to do with the story. We don’t fly off to fifteen different planets and subtitle each one of them just so we can make new Wookiepedia entries and masturbate to them in our sleep.
We just don’t do those things. We stay with our characters and our intimate setting and that’s the story.
While characters are one of the most important elements of the story, they are not the sole element of the story. One of the major elements of the trilogy is fighting the tyranny of the Empire. The celebration/uprising scenes do not show just some random planets. In addition to the capital planet, which has strong symbolic value in this aspect, the scenes show us very familiar places like Tatooine and Bespin, both of which were occupied by the Empire during the story of ANH and ESB.
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If you don’t watch the PT, this “capital planet” comes out of nowhere because it’s never even been mentioned. Also, all of these celebration scenes look terrible. People pasted in and terrible cgi.
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What will make all you Star Wars purist mad is when they replace Sebastian Shaw’s performance with Hayden’s as Vader/Anakin in the unmasking scene, just so everything matches and makes more sense.
This won’t be until 2027 during the 50th Anniversary of the first film.
Disney will probably make more changes once the rights revert back to them in 2020. This way, they can profit off another additional “50th Anniversary Special Edition.”
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What will make all you Star Wars purist mad is when they replace Sebastian Shaw’s performance with Hayden’s as Vader/Anakin in the unmasking scene, just so everything matches and makes more sense.
It wouldn’t make me mad. I’d simply laugh at the stupidity.
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Cutting to planets not in the OT makes no sense; it’s jarring as the viewer potentially has little idea what he/she is watching, plus narratively it’s far better to give our characters one low key night on Endor, before ‘tomorrow morning’ arrives and there’s an entire galactic regime to dismantle.
Replacing Shaw equally makes no sense. You can return to the handsome young guy and erode 20 years of destruction with one positive act? No, Anakin’s ghost needs to be the old man to symbolise a life wasted. Let alone further jarring by showing a version of the character neither Luke nor the view has never seen.
The music itself - i.e. replacing Ewok Celebration with Victory Celebration? Fair enough, if you must.
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It’s all about narrative.
Something you’re obviously overlooking.
The SE was to tie the OT more directly to the prequels (and in the case of '97 especially, test the technology for the prequels).
You can hate the prequels and think the SE is garbage, fine, but that’s not the point.
The point is that George said countless times that I - VI is meant to be one big long movie, with each “episode” being just a snippet of said story.
So in regards to the overall narrative, it makes perfect sense for the celebration scene to be in there because ROTJ is the end of this 12 hour long story; the climax that ties everything together.
You can say George is full of crap and that you hate it, but that’s not the point.
You can say it makes no sense if you just watch the OT by itself, but that’s not the point, because I - VI is one long story.
If you don’t like George’s view of “one big 12 hour movie”, watch the OOT and pretend nothing else exists, nobody is going to stop you.
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The point is that George said countless times that I - VI is meant to be one big long movie, with each “episode” being just a snippet of said story.
Lucas has said a lot of revisionist crap over the years.
You can say it makes no sense if you just watch the OT by itself, but that’s not the point, because I - VI is one long story.
Too bad the way the films were written and shot don’t reflect that, Lucas’ later cinematic mutilations and claims to the contrary nontwithstanding.
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Too bad the way the films were written and shot don’t reflect that, Lucas’ later cinematic mutilations and claims to the contrary nontwithstanding.
Please quote where I said he was adamant on this stance the second the cameras began rolling for ANH in '76, because I don’t recall doing so.
His decision to turn it into a 6 part saga was at least the moment he titled ESB “Episode V” in the crawl.
His decision to tie everything closer together was at least in '97 when he made the first SE.
I never said it was his grand plan all along, I just said that’s the way it is post '97, and taking the six part saga post 97 if we include the special editions (which is the point), then yes, it’s a six part saga that is meant to flow together.
I don’t know why every discussion like this has to spawn yet more countless “Lucas is an idiot” comments. We’re all very aware that many people here feel that way, but it contributes nothing to the conversation at all.
It’s not some subjective idea to be argued over whether or not Lucas wants I - VI to be considered one long story, it is a fact that Lucas wants I - VI to be considered one long story. You don’t have to agree, but that’s not the point.
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His decision to turn it into a 6 part saga was at least the moment he titled ESB “Episode V” in the crawl.
He used EP V not because he wanted to make 6 part saga at that time but because he wanted to make 9 part saga.
it’s a six part saga that is meant to flow together.
Well I do not know how it was meant to be but the reality is that at the moment PT does not flow well with OT.
It’s not some subjective idea to be argued over whether or not Lucas wants I - VI to be considered one long story, it is a fact that Lucas wants I - VI to be considered one long story. You don’t have to agree, but that’s not the point.
It is completely irrelevant what Lucas thinks or wants. The reality is that plot-wise PT and OT are two very separate stories. They are two trilogies in the same universe, focusing on two different things.
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I remember hearing that George put ‘Episode’ subtitles, was because of classic Film Serials. He liked the structure of Serials, how you had to go to the Theater each day, to catch the next episode.
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The reality is that plot-wise PT and OT are two very separate stories. They are two trilogies in the same universe, focusing on two different things.
That’s just like, your opinion, man.
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The reality is that plot-wise PT and OT are two very separate stories. They are two trilogies in the same universe, focusing on two different things.
That’s just like, your opinion, man.
No, that is the truth.
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On the whole victory celebration vs Yub Nub debate. I absolutely prefer Victory Celebration and that isn’t the “truth”. If you prefer Yub Nub then fine by you. Every opinion is equally valuable and there is none of this “objective truth” shit. We are talking about art here. Concerning why I prefer the 97 ending:
The cities I believe are warranted because in the 97 SE, there is only ONE planet that we haven’t seen but we can come to assume that in the vastness of this galaxy that it is a big city planet of great importance. And I’m looking at this through the eyes of only the OT. If you watch the full saga, this isn’t even an argument.
The other two cities in the 97 SE are a wonderful addition cause we go back to planets that we saw under imperial control, and to see them liberated makes the ending all the more meaningful and cathartic.
Now onto the music…
Yub Nub is a fine piece of folky music but IMHO it is nowhere near a good song to end a saga on. It lacks an emotional punch that I feel Victory Celebration gives. Victory Celebration is a soaring piece of music that has a sense of relief and finality. It is a truly joyous way to end the saga.
There it is. Hopefully more people can understand where I’m coming from.
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The cities I believe are warranted because in the 97 SE, there is only ONE planet that we haven’t seen but we can come to assume that in the vastness of this galaxy that it is a big city planet of great importance. And I’m looking at this through the eyes of only the OT. If you watch the full saga, this isn’t even an argument.
The other two cities in the 97 SE are a wonderful addition cause we go back to planets that we saw under imperial control, and to see them liberated makes the ending all the more meaningful and cathartic.
That is what I said:
http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1054539
真実
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I prefer Victory Celebration for the music, but I really don’t like the shots of various planets celebrating. Realistically, I think that they’d be full blown riots, since there’s no way the Empire would allow celebrations of that scale without interfering. And we know that the Empire survived for at least a little while after ROTJ, albeit in a much weaker state, so it’s not as if the planets were fully liberated from Imperial control as soon as Death Star 2 blew up.
The cities I believe are warranted because in the 97 SE, there is only ONE planet that we haven’t seen but we can come to assume that in the vastness of this galaxy that it is a big city planet of great importance. And I’m looking at this through the eyes of only the OT. If you watch the full saga, this isn’t even an argument.
Which planet would that be? IIRC, we see both Coruscant and Naboo, neither of which appear in the OT.