Ronster said:
Why is Vader so angry when he says "Bring My shuttle"?
There is an answer and only one answer... it has nothing to do with Luke, well it is sort of connected with Luke in a way, but not directly about him.
Male menopause?
Close...
Although this is a crude edited image... In this shot that comes directly before the shot of Vader was meant to originally have Tie Fighters but the Falcon does the cool loop turn as a way of losing their pursuers.
So Lando's line now makes sense "What about those fighters?"
After this shot when Vader says "Bring My Shuttle" the Anger is to reflect that he has just learned that the others have escaped and are being chased and just been out smarted again. Vader is going to catch them himself. Now the Anger makes sense.
The only thing left that does not make any sense is that George said "I wanted to go back and finish the films"
I’ve said before that, from a purely filmmaking standpoint, this addition is probably the worst in the entire Special Edition. Yes, there are things that are dumber and more agonizing from a fan standpoint, but, aside from the addition of the Jabba scene, there is no other part of the SE that RUINS THE PACING as much as this. The Falcon is rushing back to save Luke, the music is pumping, the TIEs are closing in… AND THE FILM JUST FUCKING STOPS SO WE CAN WATCH VADER ARRIVE ON HIS SHIP?! Whose crack-addled brain came up with that one?!
Great post Gaffer. Couldn’t have said it any better.
(Hi I’m new here) This always annoyed me greatly as well. As previous posters have said, the original showed how seething Vader was. Sucks all the emotion out of the scene. And yes, tacking on footage from Jedi was just abysmal.
Jesus wept is the shortest verse in the bible. It is so powerful in conveying so much meaning in just two words. For me, “Bring my shuttle” is the Jesus wept of the original trilogy. Was mad as all hell when they replaced it with the convoluted drivel of preparing the star destroyer
“I know” is the “Jesus wept” of Star Wars.
Caligula’expanded OST, V2 Released
The Shining’s complete OST
Ghidorah, The Tree-Headed Monster (English dub synched to Toho cut)
I have been looking at Luke’s rescue in a lot of detail recently. And basically the conclusion I have come to about the sequence as it was meant to be is what is in the Empire Strikes Back Comic Book.
The Weather Vane was meant to Snap and the Falcon Reaches Luke Just in time to save Luke from Falling.
The Sequence has been heavily modified for some reason. But if you have the Comic Book you will see in there how the orignal version of the sequence was meant to play out.
The whole thing about a piece of the weather Vane snapping off now continues on that it breaks under Lukes weight entirely. I think it is a bit of a loose end that this is not what actually was in the film as this is what was actually “Meant” to be in the film.
Cinematically I imagine the shot to be from Below or even above the Weather Vane falls past the camera and Luke get’s scooped up. It’s quite a short thing all in all.
But all footage points to this being the case, just everything was changed to try and make it something that it was never really intended to be.
You don’t Win friends with Salad, and You also don’t win Friends with Unnecessary capitalized Words.
You are right I wrote it in a hurry before going out with my friends.
But it is important because a debate about this part of the film was raging for years about weather Luke’s Hand and Lightsaber fell in to the clouds below. It was just a part of the weather vane
Nobody really totally understood why we saw that because the conclusion of the weather vane snapping and Luke falling was never shown. So people were trying to understand what it was they were seeing and were giving it another meaning. Which nobody can blame them for that (myself included at one point).
Because the meaning of the scene is obsolete because they changed it.
And Yoda training Luke to do Handstands and Lift up Objects is also Obsolete In a way… Not entirely but I think the training was to do with dealing with this predicament.
Jesus wept is the shortest verse in the bible. It is so powerful in conveying so much meaning in just two words. For me, “Bring my shuttle” is the Jesus wept of the original trilogy. Was mad as all hell when they replaced it with the convoluted drivel of preparing the star destroyer
ChainsawAsh said:
I hate the line in its current ESB SE spot, but I’ve never thought it sounded like anyone but James Earl Jones. I don’t know where people are getting that idea.
The line doesn’t sound like JEJ to me. It doesn’t sound like Vader does in the rest of the original movie or like the new Vader lines recorded for the new dialogue with the Emperor for the 2004 release.
I agree with you. I just looked it up, and that does not sound like JEJ to me at all.
“You don’t really mean you’ll kill me, do you?” - Juror 8
“Silence, Earthling! My name is Darth Vader. I am an extra-terrestrial from the planet Vulcan!” - Calvin “Marty” Klein
I just watched the despecialized version of ESB and I am overjoyed to see the Vader “Bring my shuttle” line restored to all of its glory.
I always loved that line and remember being horrified when I saw it had been taken out. To me it’s the worst change in the SE’s for many reasons.
The original line itself encapsulates how upset Vader is over what has just transpired with Luke. He is in no mood for any conversation and he is making it crystal clear that, if his orders aren’t obeyed immediately, bad things are going to start happening to the Imperial personnel around him.
The replacent line is dumb as hell. Not only does it not sound like JEJ, but it sounds almost nonchalant, like nothing had just happened with Luke and it was business as usual.
Also, why does the Executor need alerting? Wouldn’t the ship already be at high alert waiting for the outcome of the events on Bespin? And what are they going to do to “prepare” for his arrival? Have an honor guard? I don’t think Vader was particularly concerned with protocol at this point.
It horribly screws up the pacing of the whole scene, especially musically. First, when Vader walks to the shuttle, to add music to the extra few seconds of footage, they recycle the que of the Imperial March when Luke reacts to finding out Vader is his father. This was a slower and more dramatic que that was perfect for the revelation scene, but horribly out of place here. The original scene had a faster and more intense que of the march that fit perfectly with the quick pace of the scene.
Second, and most offensive, is when they cut to the recycled footage of Vader’s arrival from ROTJ. They not only insert it right into the middle of a sequence of TIE’s pursuing the Falcon, but, when Vader disembarks from the shuttle, they play the music that immediately follows Luke losing his hand. WHAT…THE…HELL? Out of all the music in the film, Lucas decided the one from the most shocking moment, which had just happened 5 minutes previously, was the one that best represented Vader walking off his shuttle!!!
Finally is the fact that this change seems to reinforce the belief that George Lucas just seems to think we’re all idiots with no inferring skills. Even as a 7 year old, seeing ESB for the first time, I never had the slightest bit of confusion of how Vader went from being on Bespin to the Executor in the time it took the Falcon to fly back to Cloud City, slow down, stop, rescue Luke, speed up, and take evasive actions from the TIE’s before getting to space and being intercepted by the Executor.
Yet Lucas seems to have believed, for 17 years, many fans were sitting around while scratching our think monkey craniums and saying “Whoa, whoa, whoa…So Vader asks for his shuttle and the next time we see him, he’s on the Executor? What the hell? We didn’t see him board the shuttle and leave, and we also never saw him arrive on the Executor. Do you expect us to accept this happened off camera while they were rescuing Luke? Come on!”
Most of the changes in the SE, regardless of how much I may hate them, I can at least understand the rationale Lucas used in making them, even if I think they’re pretty dumb reasons. But this was so ridiculously pointless, it eliminated a great line for a horrible one, chopped up the tone and pacing of the scenes and, to boot, it was done in a half assed way using mostly recycled footage, voice recordings and music.
All of which was done for the sake of adding footage that totaled less than 10 seconds and added nothing to the film from a visual or storytelling experience
I actually thought the quick clip of the shuttle flying to the Executor was pretty neat and I think they could have added that in seemlessly. But, unfortunately, there’s no option to just have that nice addition without all the other crap too.
That’s ultimately what I hate most about Lucas’ all or nothing attitude about the SE. We can’t have the nice cosmetic changes that cleaned things up and made it look nicer, unless we accept all the BS too. Well I’ve decided that I don’t want ANY of it then. If that means I have to see a clip of Vader’s uncolored saber in ANH to avoid a scene of Han running into a thousand storm troopers in a totally ridiculous way…so be it.
The whole reworking of that final act of ESB to accommodate Vader arriving on his shuttle does really slow the pace down. Bad enough that the perfectly placed and spoken ‘Bring my shuttle’, which I think most agree really highlights Vader’s anger in that moment and more than enough to explain how he arrived to his Star Destoyer in short movie time, is gone but in the midst of our heroes making their escape is all this cluttered stuff showing Vader leaving Bespin and arriving in the docking bay. Really not necessary. Sad thing about the Special Edition changes is they can go three ways. Either you fully understand the change and feel it was justified, you’re slightly confused by it but sorta get what they were doing, or you can tell George did the change just to do it. I think this one falls somewhere between the last two with it reaching pretty close to the third.
The whole reworking of that final act of ESB to accommodate Vader arriving on his shuttle does really slow the pace down.
That’s really the crucial thing. It completely ****s up the pace, which is something that George Lucas and his post-97 team obviously have no clue on, seeing what they did to the first act on Tatooine in Star Wars.
You have this gorgeous and frantic climax going on, and then the movie just stops dead in its ****ing tracks so some CGI guys can play in their sandbox. Give me a ****ing break.
Either you fully understand the change and feel it was justified, you’re slightly confused by it but sorta get what they were doing, or you can tell George did the change just to do it. I think this one falls somewhere between the last two with it reaching pretty close to the third.
This is spot on. What further confuses and upsets me about the butchering of the scene is I cannot understand Lucas’ motivation behind it. Generally speaking the changes Lucas made fell into one of two categories.
He wanted to add in something that he didn’t have the technological/resources to do originally, like the Mos Eisely additions or the mouth on the Sarlacc.
He wanted to make the OT more consistent with the prequels with things like adding in the spirit of young Anakin (gag) or changing Boba Fett’s voice (double gag).
Nothing in the changes of the Bespin scene fits into either category. Clearly nothing in it had no relation to anything in the prequels. Also there was nothing visually scene that would have been beyond the technology of the time. Vader actually walking to the shuttle could have been done with a matte painting just like all the scenes on Cloud City landing platforms were done. The shot of the shuttle flying to the Executor was almost identical to the sequence of the Falcon fleeing Bespin and a simple close shot of Vader walking down a ramp on a small hangar set would have sufficed for that element. If Lucas wanted a shuttle scene so badly, why not just do it in 1979 while making the film?
So again, what was the motivation? Was Lucas jealous Kershner got so much credit for ESB and he wanted to stick his own contribution into the climax? Did he really have a lot of people tell him “Great film George, but how the hell did Vader actually get to his ship?”
It’s one of those things that really make me wonder what goes through his head and what changed between 1983 and 1997.
One can also look at it like this.
1997- Lucas updates and explands the original trilogy to tie into his original vision more…mostly.
2004- Lucas makes more changes to tie in films better with the prequels.
2011- makes changes simply because he can!
And yes you’re right Vader leaving Bespin and arriving on the Star Destroyer definitely could have been executed in the original film so the motivation for the change is unclear.
this one line ruins all of ESB for me.
and “nooooooooo” ruins rotj for me.
ARGH.
Speaking of AARGH what was the point of replacing Vaders ‘AARGH’ when he falls off the edge in the carbon freezing chamber with the ‘OONF’ that he blurted out earlier when Luke blew the steam in his face??
Because he could
I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.
Because ARGH is a Garfield word, and Lucas didn’t want to get sued by Jim Davis.
Reading through all of this just makes me angry. I’m angry that Lucas felt the need to f$%k up the films just for no good reason.
All I can say is I’m glad that in my household all we watch are the original theatrical versions. I just feel bad for more “casual” fans who don’t have access to such things and are forced to watch the butchered versions.
I just watched the despecialized version of ESB and I am overjoyed to see the Vader “Bring my shuttle” line restored to all of its glory.
I always loved that line and remember being horrified when I saw it had been taken out. To me it’s the worst change in the SE’s for many reasons.
{Many excellent points removed}
Agree 100%. “Bring my shuttle” has been my favorite Vader line for years because it says so much with so little and was accompanied by the best building tension and musical sequence in the entire trilogy.
I never understood this. I mean he doesn’t talk about the shuttle, but then they insert the damn shuttle? Worst of all there’s an obvious out-take from ROTJ shoved in there too!
I just watched the despecialized version of ESB and I am overjoyed to see the Vader “Bring my shuttle” line restored to all of its glory.
I always loved that line and remember being horrified when I saw it had been taken out. To me it’s the worst change in the SE’s for many reasons.{Many excellent points removed}
Agree 100%. “Bring my shuttle” has been my favorite Vader line for years because it says so much with so little and was accompanied by the best building tension and musical sequence in the entire trilogy.
It’s the little things… 😃 Thankfully, Lucas never edited any of Vader’s dialogue to refer to “hating of sand”
And yes you’re right Vader leaving Bespin and arriving on the Star Destroyer definitely could have been executed in the original film so the motivation for the change is unclear.
They were running out of time on ESB and Lucas was only concerned about getting things done. It’s also true that he doesn’t really like the film, or at least thinks it’s the worst Star Wars movie, probably because it was the one that he had the least creative input into.
Sure, Lucas was still a big part of Empire, but Kersh and Kurtz were more in control of making the movie than anyone besides George has ever been in any of the non-Disney movies, and it shows.