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Ages of Luke & Leia

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Apologies if this is old ground for the forum - please point me to the relevant thread if so.

In the original cut of ROTJ Luke & Leia have a chat just after the Ewoks have agreed to help the rebels attack the Imperial base on the Endor moon.

Now, Luke opens with: "Do you remember your mother, your real mother?", to which Leia replies: "Just a little bit, she died when I was very young"

Not: "No, she died when I was born." Not: "Well, no, but I've had dreams/visions about her."

Luke later says: "I have no memory of my mother."

Surely this exchange tells us that either:

(a) Leia is, in fact, older than Luke, or

(b) remained with Padme for a few years before being adopted by the Organas.

This was unaltered in the 1997 SE. I haven't seen any subsequent cuts or revisions of ROTJ, as I boycotted all releases of episodes 4-6 since the 1997 SEs.

Due to this scene, I was bitterly disappointed by the scenes at the end of ROTS, as they surely fly in the face of this scene from ROTJ, don't they?
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Keep in mind, also. Luke's focus - even from ANH - was on his father. Even if the PT was done as it should have been, Luke may not have had visions of his mother simply because he didn't think much of her.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Luke had a deep psychological connection with his father. He never knew him, but idolized him. I'm sure growing up he missed his mother, but Aunt Beru seemed to fill in that role nicely. But the idea of his father...oh, that really got Luke's blood pumping. Space travel, adventure, his father seemed to know what was cool. Then to find out that his father fought in the war and was a Jedi Knight! Woo!!

Leia on the other hand, being a female, would have had a yearning to know her mother. What she was like, who she was. She obviously knew her mother because she was with her, even for a short time (sans PT). She never knew her father and to her it didn't seem all that crutial. But her mother, that was the key. Probably the driving force in her life, and she didn't even know it.

Vader couldn't pick up on Leia's vibe on the Death Star because 1) she had the connection with her mother, and 2) she had not yet "activated" her force senses.
Vader did notice Luke, "the force is strong with this one," because Obi-Wan had started teaching him and Luke was now in the Jedi pool and sending out ripples in the force that Vader pick up on. Both Luke and Leia can "swim" but only Luke jumped in the pool at the time.

Luke never knew is mother. Leia never knew her father. Put the two twins together and now they both can learn about their parents.

My line of thinking pushes aside all PT logic (oxymoron). To me, Leia was born first, Luke second. Luke was taken away quickly by Obi-Wan to run to Tatooine. Leia stayed behind with her mother until her death (I assumed a year later when she was murdered or something).

Even if Lucas wanted to have her die in the same movie that the children were born in, Leia should have been born first and in her mother's arms when she died. Luke should have been left in the doctor's arms,having never even gotten to see or even be held by his mother.
Hell, even if Padme had reached out and brushed the back of her hand against Leia's face and have the baby look at her while Luke was held at her feet crying, would have been enough to believe it. But like the idiot Lucas is, nothing makes any goddamn sense.

PS - I thought that this was about actual age numbers of the twins and I was going to say that during ANH both Luke and Leia are 19 years old.
1) Leia was said to be the youngest person to join the senate
2) I saw a poster that mentioned that Luke was the "20 year old son of Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker"
3) I was also told somewhere, a magazine perhaps, that Luke was 18. I average the two ages together for a happy medium
4) Luke's been denied the Acadamy, again, making him atleast 19.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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I think that, because Leia is able to talk a little about how her mother behaved ("beautiful, kind but...sad"), it follows that Leia must have been a few years old before she was parted from Padme. The idea that Luke was taken away by Obi-Wan Kenobi to Uncle Owen & Aunt Beru straight after birth, while Leia stayed with Padme seems to me to have the most merit.

Perhaps Padme & Leia could have gone to Alderaan under Bail Organa's protection, meaning that Leia grew up with the Organa family, making them the most natural guardians once Padme was gone (however that may have occurred).

I suppose that, because Obi-Wan does use the words "twin sister" in ROTJ (after Yoda's death), one must conclude that Luke & Leia are the same age.

Good work on the actual ages, by the way!
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Yeah, that's the way I always speculated it was supposed to be, but alas, now it's stupid.

As for Leia being the youngest senator, is it possible that the PT ended up contradicting that? We know that Padme was 24 in AOTC, and that she was a senator. And her dialogue seems to indicate that she became a senator immediately after her term as queen ended. We know she was 14 as a queen. She couldn't have been too much older when her term expired, could she? But we also don't know when Leia first became a senator, do we? But it seems likely that they were roughly the same age. Any EU people out there care to help clarify? Shim, I'm looking in your direction!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Now really, is a 14 year old really someone you want to have in charge of a whole planet?

No wonder the galaxy descended into anarchy...
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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They were fine with a 14 year old queen. It was when they let Jar Jar get involved with the government that things went to hell! And they let their senator become chancellor. Hell, everything wrong with the galaxy is Naboo's fault, you're right!

EDIT: Including starting the trend of planets having really dumb names (Tatooine is debatable, but he seems to love those oos)!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Mmmm. Jar Jar Binks.

[Sigh]

I wonder if Naboo is some kind of 'Dark Side' centre or something. Has the EU decided if Palpatine came from Naboo originally?
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
Now really, is a 14 year old really someone you want to have in charge of a whole planet?

No wonder the galaxy descended into anarchy...


Queens aren't always absolutists, or even in charge of their governments. I haven't seen TPM in years, but I got the impression the office was basically an elected sinecure, with her only responsibilities being to act as a public face for the government and to sign what she was told to sign. Her refusal to assent to a treaty with the Trade Federation and her ability to stir nationalist sentiment were her only real powers. The TradeFed could've killed her and installed another queen, but they would've lost all popular support with the Nabooian people. They wanted the queen alive and cooperative, like MacArthur wanted the Japanese Tenno (Emperor) alive and cooperative after WWII.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
EDIT: Including starting the trend of planets having really dumb names (Tatooine is debatable, but he seems to love those oos)!


Tatooine is actually named after a city in Tunisia, where lots of Tatooine was filmed. Khoum Tatouine, I think.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Originally posted by: Scruffy
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
EDIT: Including starting the trend of planets having really dumb names (Tatooine is debatable, but he seems to love those oos)!


Tatooine is actually named after a city in Tunisia, where lots of Tatooine was filmed. Khoum Tatouine, I think.


Now THAT'S interesting! I dare you to come up with something for Naboo! Come on! I dare you!
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Luke and Leia were twins, so they must have been the same age. Luke was yearning to go to the academy with his friends, so I think that would make him and Leia about 18 or 19.

As far as Leia saying she remembered her mother "a little bit" that's just another plot hole that was created by the PT.

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Maybe that'll be Lucas's undoing. He'll create a plothole so big it'll swallow him whole.
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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If it was possible to get swallowed up by a big enough plothole, we would have lost him in 1999.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Were Luke & Leia always going to be twins, or did they write it in for ROTJ so that they could have a 'reveal' scene, like in ESB?
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Lucas claims it was always about the twins and the father. A lot of us here think that, based on logic, it was just made up at the time. Even Mark Hamill asked Lucas around the time of filming, "Did you just think that up on the plane ride over here?" It seems more likely that he just made it up, but we'll probably never know for sure.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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It does result in a satisfyingly transgressive feeling when watching Leia give Luke a real lingering smooch in ESB!

Or is that just me...?
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Now THAT'S interesting! I dare you to come up with something for Naboo! Come on! I dare you!


I don't know a tenth as much about the prequels as I do about the Trilogy. I assume it is a made up baby-talk word he uses when conversing with his increasingly embarrassed children.

GEORGE
Nabooboobooboo! Nabooboobooboo! Who's my little Boba Jett?

JETT
Dad, will you stop calling me that, please?

GEORGE
Rarr! Look out! Here comes the rancor!
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Leia remembering her mom/the ending of ROTS has never bothered me, because I instantly assumed she was referring to her adopted mother. I don't remember her ever suggesting that she was adopted. And some adopted kids grow old and die without ever knowing that they were adopted. Perhaps Bail and Mrs. Organa wanted to keep the seperation from her parent(s) as large as possible, to keep her away from Li'l Annie. That's how I've always seen it. And as far as luke kissing his sister, it doesn't bother me either. Leia was hot, and Luke didn't know it was his sister. And besides, there was no tongue.

FE<3OT

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Originally posted by: trickbaxter
Leia remembering her mom/the ending of ROTS has never bothered me
Me neither, because I ignore everything in the prequels.

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: trickbaxter
Leia remembering her mom/the ending of ROTS has never bothered me, because I instantly assumed she was referring to her adopted mother. I don't remember her ever suggesting that she was adopted. And some adopted kids grow old and die without ever knowing that they were adopted. Perhaps Bail and Mrs. Organa wanted to keep the seperation from her parent(s) as large as possible, to keep her away from Li'l Annie. That's how I've always seen it. And as far as luke kissing his sister, it doesn't bother me either. Leia was hot, and Luke didn't know it was his sister. And besides, there was no tongue.


Even though Lucas has stated that he did intend for Leia to be talking about her real mother, because he wanted one of the kids to retain memories of her.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
Originally posted by: trickbaxter
Leia remembering her mom/the ending of ROTS has never bothered me
Me neither, because I ignore everything in the prequels.


Amen to that.

The real Lea was with her mother at a young age (not just at birth) and she remembers her mother as sad because her mother's husband became evil. Enough said.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Honestly, I've given up on all this PT/OT continuity crap. I just don't care anymore.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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Agreed. I have no idea what Lucas was thinking having Padme die in birth. It completely destroys the continuity.

As for Leia being the youngest Senator, I believe she was elected in her late teens, whereas Padme says in "Clones" that they 'ammended the constitution' to allow her to serve multiple terms as queen, so she was probably 20 or so when she started.

4

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Lucas claims it was always about the twins and the father. A lot of us here think that, based on logic, it was just made up at the time. Even Mark Hamill asked Lucas around the time of filming, "Did you just think that up on the plane ride over here?"
LOL Where did Mark say that?

BTW- (sorry if this has been discussed before), but why didn't Mark Hamill do commentary for the DVDs? It seems like he would have been a natural choice.