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4K restoration on Star Wars — Page 2

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AntcuFaalb said:

m_s0 said:

the average Joe won't care or understand what this is all about

I see this mentioned here a lot, but in my experience (I know it's anecdotal), this simply isn't true. I've heard the biggest-non-nerds I know complain about SEisms. I overhear a lot of "I don't understand why they keep fucking around with the movie. It looks so fake." during office discussions with dry climb-the-corporate-ladder types.

I'm just speaking from own experience as well. Unfortunately I've never had that happen. People notice Christensen in Jedi and that's about it. CGI in a 1977 movie doesn't even raise an eyebrow, sadly, and those are the most obvious (and noticeable at first glance) changes.

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doubleofive said:


Cobra Kai said:
That staffer's resume indicates that she worked on it starting in september of 2012.  If that's the case, then I bet this was just a new SE master for the 3d releases that were eventually cancelled.

Judging by the changes made to the Blu-ray, it's my opinion that we got the 2D versions of what would have been released in 3D. Besides, why would they need to do "Restoration, Mapping, and Dirt Picking" the already way too clean 1080p Blu-ray masters in 4k?

No, what I meant was that this might have been a new 4k scan/restoration from original elements that was to be used as as the basis for the 3d releases. 

 

"In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be "replaced" by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten." - George Lucas

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Would they need a new scan for that, though? It wouldn't get projected in 4k anyway.

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Cobra Kai said:

doubleofive said:


Cobra Kai said:
That staffer's resume indicates that she worked on it starting in september of 2012.  If that's the case, then I bet this was just a new SE master for the 3d releases that were eventually cancelled.

Judging by the changes made to the Blu-ray, it's my opinion that we got the 2D versions of what would have been released in 3D. Besides, why would they need to do "Restoration, Mapping, and Dirt Picking" the already way too clean 1080p Blu-ray masters in 4k?

No, what I meant was that this might have been a new 4k scan/restoration from original elements that was to be used as as the basis for the 3d releases. 

^This is probably true. My guess is that Disney inherited this and, instead of releasing the 3Ds, will cash-in with an OUT release. It's a win-win.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

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m_s0 said:

Would they need a new scan for that, though? It wouldn't get projected in 4k anyway.

I think it's harder to do all of the "3D stuff" with an inferior scan. Plus, the 2K/10bpp masters aren't really up to modern standards and expectations.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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What I could see them doing is spacing out a theatrical 3D re-release of the OT-SE from late August / early September to late October / early November of 2015. That's one of the traditional stretches of the year for doing re-releases since there's less competition from big new movies coming out. January-March, when the '97 SE's were released, is another such window.

A September-November re-release would lead pretty perfectly into ep7 in December. They could even do marathon screenings the afternoon before.

Something I'd love to see happen, but probably won't, is a simultaneous theatrical re-release of an OOT restoration for repertory movie houses to show. The AFI Silver in Silver Spring, MD (just outside DC) is doing an Alec Guinness series this summer and it kills me that they're showing the '97 version of Star Wars instead of the genuine article.

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timdiggerm said:

Sorry, 005, which is which?

I think it's: RMW/GOUT/Blu-ray.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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AntcuFaalb said:

m_s0 said:

the average Joe won't care or understand what this is all about

I see this mentioned here a lot, but in my experience (I know it's anecdotal), this simply isn't true. I've heard the biggest-non-nerds I know complain about SEisms. I overhear a lot of "I don't understand why they keep fucking around with the movie. It looks so fake." during office discussions with dry climb-the-corporate-ladder types.

They don't care about it as much as we do, but they definitely see through the bullshit.

 Agreed.  This has been my experience as well.  Among most of the people I can think of off the top of my head (non-nerds included) the SE's are considered a joke.  

Re-releasing the most popular movie saga of all time on the big screen in its original form (something hasn't been seen widely since the early 80's) would be a pretty big deal, IMO. 

This post has been edited.

 

"In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be "replaced" by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten." - George Lucas

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AntcuFaalb said:



timdiggerm said:

Sorry, 005, which is which?


I think it's: RMW/GOUT/Blu-ray.
Exactly. The colors are different, the flashes look like what the GOUT might look like if it wasn't overblown. Shot 2 is the most telling, the flash is green in the SE and doesn't go as high on Vader's shoulder. I don't know guys....

And I highly doubt they re-did the SE's in 4k from scratch. That's them going back to each original element and the original negative AGAIN, scanning them AGAIN, redoing all of the CG AGAIN.

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Cobra Kai said:

AntcuFaalb said:

m_s0 said:

the average Joe won't care or understand what this is all about

I see this mentioned here a lot, but in my experience (I know it's anecdotal), this simply isn't true. I've heard the biggest-non-nerds I know complain about SEisms. I overhear a lot of "I don't understand why they keep fucking around with the movie. It looks so fake." during office discussions with dry climb-the-corporate-ladder types.

They don't care about it as much as we do, but they definitely see through the bullshit.

 Agreed.  This has been my experience as well.  Among most of the people I can think of off the top of my head (non-nerds included) the SE's are considered a joke.  

Re-releasing the most popular movie saga of all time on the big screen in its original form (something hasn't been seen widely since the early 80's) would be a pretty big deal, IMO. 

You people are really lucky then. Or maybe I'm just not lucky.

At this point I'd kill for an OOT re-release in 2D and on the big screen.

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A lot to parse there...

Similar colors, but considering it's still presumably the SE that's not too surprising (The GOUT colors aren't entirely accurate anyway).

The flashes actually look different, the translucency is gone.

The image appears more contrasty (in a good way) than the blu-ray.

Framing is opened up very slightly on all four sides.

The lightsaber colors look less exaggerated.

hmmmm.....

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I hate thinking this might be another useless "getting me hyped" rumor that ends up leading nowhere.

Anyhow, if it is real, would these new 4k OOT replace the current Bluray as the source for the entire revisited OT?

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emanswfan said:

I hate thinking this might be another useless "getting me hyped" rumor that ends up leading nowhere.

This is, hopefully, part of the same "OUT coming to BD" news that the media hyped back in May/June.

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A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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doubleofive said:

AntcuFaalb said:



timdiggerm said:

Sorry, 005, which is which?


I think it's: RMW/GOUT/Blu-ray.

Exactly. The colors are different, the flashes look like what the GOUT might look like if it wasn't overblown. Shot 2 is the most telling, the flash is green in the SE and doesn't go as high on Vader's shoulder. I don't know guys....

And I highly doubt they re-did the SE's in 4k from scratch. That's them going back to each original element and the original negative AGAIN, scanning them AGAIN, redoing all of the CG AGAIN.

Not from scratch, but still a fresh 4K scan. I'm pretty sure the '04 scan didn't discriminate between different parts of the negative. The cgi shots from '97 were scanned back in along with everything else. You can still notice filmic anomalies in those shots, some slight wobble and so forth, even after Lowry's clean-up job.

When Spielberg commissioned a new 4K master of Minority Report in 2009 it was a similar thing. The cg shots were simply scanned back in.

If this is in fact a new transfer of Star Wars, I'm sure they could stabilize the '97 shots and make them look as good as possible. Remember, even today a movie's cgi is rarely rendered at anything higher than 2k unless it's being comped into native imax footage or something. Even movies that get 4k finishes only get 2k cg renders if they were shot in 35mm (or the digital equivalent thereof).

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AntcuFaalb said:

emanswfan said:

I hate thinking this might be another useless "getting me hyped" rumor that ends up leading nowhere.

This is, hopefully, part of the same "OUT coming to BD" news that the media hyped back in May/June.

 That's what I'm guessing as well for the moment.  I hope to see some confirmation that it is true or false somewhere soon.

I'm kind of surprised this hasn't been mentioned much elsewhere except for here.

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doubleofive said:

AntcuFaalb said:



timdiggerm said:

Sorry, 005, which is which?


I think it's: RMW/GOUT/Blu-ray.

And I highly doubt they re-did the SE's in 4k from scratch. That's them going back to each original element and the original negative AGAIN, scanning them AGAIN, redoing all of the CG AGAIN.

Perhaps not. I hope you're right.  But this also would have been before the Disney purchase was finalized if that staffers resume is accurate.  I have a hard time believing Lucasfilm would have been working on an OUT restoration at that time, while GL was technically still running the show. 

 

"In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be "replaced" by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten." - George Lucas

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Cobra Kai said:

Perhaps not. I hope you're right.  But this also would have been before the Disney purchase was finalized if that staffers resume is accurate.  I have a hard time believing Lucasfilm would have been working on an OUT restoration at that time, while GL was technically still running the show.
Perhaps as a show of good faith to Disney, LFL started having it restored?

“Oh yeah. I’m a dummy.” - me

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doubleofive said:

Cobra Kai said:

Perhaps not. I hope you're right.  But this also would have been before the Disney purchase was finalized if that staffers resume is accurate.  I have a hard time believing Lucasfilm would have been working on an OUT restoration at that time, while GL was technically still running the show.

Perhaps as a show of good faith to Disney, LFL started having it restored?

The Disney deal didn't happen overnight. It'd been in the works for months when it was announced, so this is entirely possible.

Anyway, I just watched the demo reel and the OT footage in there looks amazing! Very film-like. Even if this is just the SE, something I have no intention of supporting, it would still be nice if they're bringing it up to modern standards.

ETA: There's no footage from Jedi in that reel. Maybe it's that new of a project?

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m_s0 said:

CO said:

m_s0 said:


I'm still hoping Disney is going to feed the OOT to the Ep VII hype machine, and the way they've been handling Star Wars makes it a fairly likely scenario. This December, maybe? Fingers crossed, but no real expectations.

 If there was ever a time to release the OOT, it would be next year leading up to Episode 7 as you will have Ford, Fisher and Hamill doing a zillion interviews about the new movie.  Perfect Tie-In for the fans.

I'm thinking maybe this Christmas or May next year, if it even happens, but I can't see them releasing it any closer Ep VII than that. Whatever we might think about the OOT, the average Joe won't care or understand what this is all about, hence why I doubt they'd make it a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Getting it out to maintain a consistent level of buzz and to get the hardcore nerds on board with the new Star Wars Overlords - sure. Making it a significant part of the marketing campaign (classic Star Wars is back, with a follow up soon etc.) - nope.

There's a chance I'm just too jaded to see it. It would be cool if they did make a big deal out of it, not only because of validation and all that stuff.

You know how there's always a new disc of the previous movies or a new box set when a new movie in a series comes out? Cash-in releases? Yeah, it would make sense for them to do that for Star Wars. Money would be guaranteed, as it always is with those releases. And then if this were the first Blu-ray release of the OOT? Well that would really make some dough. In my mind, it only makes sense they would do it.

I'm imagining a Q4 2015 release. We'll see I guess. I'm trying not to get excited about this RMW thing in case it doesn't work out, but fuck it, it's a little exciting even if we don't know what it really is yet.

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Here are three screengrabs which I've fit to the bluray dimensions. There's different warping on the stills in question, so it's pretty clearly a new scan:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/83700/picture:0

The skintones look much better on this scan, as well as the shadow detail (check out the switches behind C-3PO and the X-Wing starfield). The oppressive pink flashes are handled much better as well. The reds are not bleeding, nor are the greens (R2's green panel lights), and the exposure is far better here. The only gripe I have is that C-3PO looks too green, but that's small potatoes compared to the dramatic jump in quality in this scan.

JEDIT: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/83709/picture:0

The shadow detail regained in the trench run shot is quite excellent.

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DominicCobb said:

m_s0 said:

CO said:

m_s0 said:


I'm still hoping Disney is going to feed the OOT to the Ep VII hype machine, and the way they've been handling Star Wars makes it a fairly likely scenario. This December, maybe? Fingers crossed, but no real expectations.

 If there was ever a time to release the OOT, it would be next year leading up to Episode 7 as you will have Ford, Fisher and Hamill doing a zillion interviews about the new movie.  Perfect Tie-In for the fans.

I'm thinking maybe this Christmas or May next year, if it even happens, but I can't see them releasing it any closer Ep VII than that. Whatever we might think about the OOT, the average Joe won't care or understand what this is all about, hence why I doubt they'd make it a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Getting it out to maintain a consistent level of buzz and to get the hardcore nerds on board with the new Star Wars Overlords - sure. Making it a significant part of the marketing campaign (classic Star Wars is back, with a follow up soon etc.) - nope.

There's a chance I'm just too jaded to see it. It would be cool if they did make a big deal out of it, not only because of validation and all that stuff.

You know how there's always a new disc of the previous movies or a new box set when a new movie in a series comes out? Cash-in releases? Yeah, it would make sense for them to do that for Star Wars. Money would be guaranteed, as it always is with those releases. And then if this were the first Blu-ray release of the OOT? Well that would really make some dough. In my mind, it only makes sense they would do it.

I'm imagining a Q4 2015 release. We'll see I guess. I'm trying not to get excited about this RMW thing in case it doesn't work out, but fuck it, it's a little exciting even if we don't know what it really is yet.

I guess the question is whether you want to risk the uniqueness of the set getting lost in the hype for Ep VII close to the release date or do you want to milk it for all it's worth and possibly contribute to the hype before it reaches critical mass. Dumping everything out at the same time doesn't sound like a great idea to me in this case since it wouldn't be shovelware this time around. It's possible that I'm overthinking this.

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