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ROTS: Incoherence ... (attention, a little bit of spoiler inside)

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Hello all,
(excuse me if my English is not perfect)

I was not sure I would, but I have finally seen the EP3 and I must confess I loved it and it gave me a bit more taste to StarWars again.
Anyway, to consider the six films as a same story, I have to make abstraction of many details “ridiculous” (why are C3PO and R2 in EP1-2-3, same for Chewbacca, why always the same “persons” in such a huge universe? … why is it Dark Vador who created C3PO … why is R2 more sort of a “combat droid” in EP2-3 than he ever was in EP4-5-6 ???) ou “incoherent”

But I think this one should bug everyone who notices it … :

  • In EP6 Leia tells Luke that she remembers some images and feelings of her REAL mother because she died when Leia was young. In EP3, Padme dies giving them birth …

Additionnally:

  • In EP4 ObiWan says he doesn’t remember ever having owned a Droid, in EP1 or 2, he owns one … (oki, he might have lied to Luke …)

  • More arguable: In EP4 ObiWan tells Luke that Vador has tracked and assassinated all Jedi Knights, but watching EP3 you see almost all Jedis have been killed by the republic commandos, Vador killed the ones in the Jedi Temple and didn’t actually “track” any Jedi. Maybe has he tracked some Jedis after EP3 … but watching the movie you really have the feeling the Jedis are already all dead.

  • In the end of EP3, you see a shot of the first DeathStar under construction. Which means that the first one has taken more than 20 years to be build and discovered by the Alliance, while the second one has been build in, I suppose, a few month (EP4-EP6) I think they just love to put elements people will recognise anywhere they can for marketing’s sake.

There are many many things that I would change in EP1-2-3 … but let’s say with the abstraction of some details, they made at least 4 good movies on 6.

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I don't think Obi Wan ever OWNED a droid, I think the droids he has are Republic Military Astromech droids, meaning they are assigned to his fighter. Individuals, such as Padme or even the Skywalkers would OWN a droid. Obi Wan simply uses the ones that come with his ship.

He tells Luke that Vader helped the Emperor hunt down and kill all the Jedi. Well, he sorta did. As far as Obi Wan knows, Anakin did help the Emperor as he set the message in the Temple to tell all the Jedi to return. And Anakin would know where all the Jedi were, too.

How do you know when the construction of the second Death Star began? I've never seen it.

And, the force is strong with the Skywalker's, so Leia could have feasible sensed her mother and her feelings while in the womb.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Padme and Leia have a force connection when she is born.

Return of the Jedi is set a year after Empire.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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And, the force is strong with the Skywalker's, so Leia could have feasible sensed her mother and her feelings while in the womb.


Your explainations are more or less OK for me while they don't make the movies look perfect ... But this one still bugs me ...
At least in the French version, Leia says "She died when I was quite young"(in French of course), there's no doubt when your hear it that she has known her for a few years.

And then ... why wouldn't Luke has the same feelings ?

(But I have the feeling you're joking with this one)
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I'm not joking. Luke's connection is with his father. Thus he can't sense that Leia is his sister.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Just as Vader didn't sense Leia as his daughter when she was standing directly in front of him (and especially while he was torturing her.)

"- In EP4 ObiWan says he doesn't remember ever having owned a Droid, in EP1 or 2, he owns one ... (oki, he might have lied to Luke ...)"

Ask Obi-wan if he has a receipt.

Besides, throughout the PT, R2 belongs to Padme, and 3PO belongs to Anakin - until they are both given to Bail Organa.

"- More arguable: In EP4 ObiWan tells Luke that Vador has tracked and assassinated all Jedi Knights, but watching EP3 you see almost all Jedis have been killed by the republic commandos, Vador killed the ones in the Jedi Temple and didn't actually "track" any Jedi. Maybe has he tracked some Jedis after EP3 ... but watching the movie you really have the feeling the Jedis are already all dead."

We only see a handful killed onscreen, and the whole reason for Obi-wan and Yoda to return to the Jedi Temple is to change the "Return Home" beacon, to keep any left over Jedi from returning to Coruscant. These are presumably the Jedi that Vader later seeks down and kills (in between ROTS and ANH.)

"Dark Vador"

I want that to be my new username - LOL.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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He's french dude, don't slag him off like that.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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Jedikev - two things.

1) It was a harmless joke.

2) You are the last person to tell others not to "slag off" people. Your posts are regularly full of caustic remarks. You should use my post as an example of how to politely poke fun at people.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Hardcore Legend


How do you know when the construction of the second Death Star began? I've never seen it.


easy. the characters is ROTJ weren't 20 years older than they were in ANH.
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Originally posted by: LV97
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And, the force is strong with the Skywalker's, so Leia could have feasible sensed her mother and her feelings while in the womb.


Your explainations are more or less OK for me while they don't make the movies look perfect ... But this one still bugs me ...
At least in the French version, Leia says "She died when I was quite young"(in French of course), there's no doubt when your hear it that she has known her for a few years.

And then ... why wouldn't Luke has the same feelings ?

(But I have the feeling you're joking with this one)


it could be that she remembers bails wife.
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It isn't that easy. How do you know the second Death Star was begun after the destruction of the first. Unless it says in the crawl of ROTJ, it could have been started midway through the construction of the first.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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No, this isn't the case at all. Luke specifically mentions her "real mother", and Lucas states in the Annotated Screenplay:

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"The man Leia called Father was obviously not her father. He is part of the group that ends up having to fight Darth Vader in the film that will be out in 2003 [laughs]. The part that I never really developed is the death of Luke and Leia's mother. I had a backstory for her in earlier drafts but it basically didn't survive. When I got to Jedi, I wanted one of the kids to have some kind of memory of her because she will be a key figure in the new episodes I'm writing. But I really debated on whether or not Leia should remember her." - George Lucas: The Annotated Screenplays


Of course, this won't prevent some people from choosing to believe otherwise, but doing so completely sucks all the emotion out of that scene, but what can you do?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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He's french dude, don't slag him off like that.


Actually I'm Belgian but I didn't take the joke bad ;-)


For the "date" of the beginning of the construction of the second DeathStar ... I wonder what if I have a look at the intoduction text of ROTJ this evening.


For Leia remembering her mother, the Lucas quote seems to confirm what I first said ... though it's still a little unclear.


For the links between characters with the Force etc ... some extensions of the Force concept have come to an absurd point where it can explain whatever you may wonder ... they kinda ruined it ... (I'm not even mentionning the "Midichlorians" :-/ )
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Actually, I think in some foreign versions the caharacter is actually called 'Dark Vador', right LV97?

War does not make one great.

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Yes, in the French version he's called "Dark Vador" which, when you undestand English, makes it sound anyway like the "Dark Father", which makes much sense after EP3.

I've never understood why in the English version it's "Darth" ... does it mean anything actually ?


Actually, as I'm able to watch both versions, I think that the voices in French in EP4-5-6 make them greater than the original version ... the characters are more "sympatic" and "catchy" in the French version, especially Han Solo (edit: and Yoda). Although in EP4 French version there's a mistake because the say the "Millenium Condor" instead of "Faucon (Falcon) Millenium".
I haven't seen EP2-3 in French.
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Millenium Condor? ROFTL...that is soooo wrong.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Millenium Condor? That's terrible! rofl...

I was un aware it was Dark Vador in the East Europe versions. Strange. Vader is Dutch for Father, and Darth is like the title of any Sith Lord--and all Sith Lord names have something to do with that person.

Darth Sidious is INSIDIOUS
Darth Nihilus is Nihilistic
Darth Vader is Luke's Father
Darth Maul will MAUL you to death because he's a good fighter...

Stuff like that.

4

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"Vader is Dutch for Father"

*sigh* Why do people keep insisting that Lucas knows Dutch.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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(refereing to some above posts)

Reading the English introduction text of ROTJ (original), it seems to me that they speak of a NEW DeathStar started after the destruction of the first one. It's not litterally written, but otherwise I think the texte would have been different.
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"Vader is Dutch for Father"

*sigh* Why do people keep insisting that Lucas knows Dutch.


He might not have been concious of the fact when he created Darth Vader, but it's sure as heck a strange coincedence.

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I know I'm going off subject, but I too have seen (quite often!) the French versions of the OT, and I don't think that the translators expected episodes 5 and 6 at first: in ANH, the Falcon is indeed called the Condor and Darth called Dark, but also... R2 is called D2-R2 (inverted), 3PO is called Z-6P0 (!), Han nicknames Chewie "Chico" (Cheeko).... AND there's weird misinterpretations, like when Obi-Wan tells Luke that his father was "massacred at the hands of" Vader... whew! BUT, as consolation, these errors do not reappear in ESB and ROTJ, and I must say that the French voices do indeed sound a lot more polite and refined than the average translation.
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For every French and Italian reader here: WHY did they re-named the characters in Star Wars? Did they sound like curse words?

In the portuguese version, Dooku is renamed Dookan (although he is referenced as Dooku on Clone Wars sometimes), and Sifo-Dyas was renamed to Zaifo-Vias, because both names sounded similar to curse words. Also, Panaka was not renamed, but he souds like "panaca", which means something like "jerk", "stupid", "idiot".
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I think that Leia could have had one of those "Force memories". I havent really actively watched the original trilogy in many years, but it could be Lucas' subtle way of showing us that she does have some of those good "medichlorian" counts or whatever they are. Just a thought.
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Wow, I want to see the French version now. I would need subtitles, but it'd pretty funny to see all the differences.
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Lucas has said in an interview that Darth Vader is Dark Father
I'm a mainstream Star Wars fan exploring the extremes of Star Wars fandom. My views will no doubt be unpopular. I shall be kind and courteous in my postings, and I hope you will be too.