This shot is a good example of why Dr. Dre is using the wowow instead of the blu. Look at details like Katanga’s sweater and the pole behind him. They are scrubbed out of the blu due to DNR, lowered contrast and the sloppy application of color filters. The color changes also turn the sky a dull beige color.
35mm
Wowow
Blu-ray
Is there any truth to there being an extra shot or an extended shot in the bar fight for the big Sherpa slamming Indy against the wall or something?
I think it’s probably true in terms of behind the scenes footage but is it actually in the 35mm version?
And good work, less saturated told you so… and you agreed! but it’s only now you are doing it 😃
After running some tests, I noticed, that the difference between the contrast levels of the WOWOW, and the LPP is problematic in some instances, causing artifacts. I therefore decided to try and use the WOWOW exposure levels to correct for this, thereby providing an estimate for the look of the original IP, rather than a 35mm print. Here are three example regrades, using this method.
35mm LPP:
WOWOW:
WOWOW regraded:
35mm LPP:
WOWOW:
WOWOW regraded:
35mm LPP:
WOWOW:
WOWOW regraded:
I can’t say I like the way that looks. Is is possible to go somewhere in between?
I can’t say I like the way that looks. Is is possible to go somewhere in between?
I don’t like it much either. I think I might recruit a few replacement shots from the bluray, where possible as an alternative.
I can’t say I like the way that looks. Is is possible to go somewhere in between?
I don’t like it much either. I think I might recruit a few replacement shots from the bluray, where possible as an alternative.
So what is the point of regrading it in the first place?
We want it corrected don’t we?
Not just another version?
I can’t say I like the way that looks. Is is possible to go somewhere in between?
I don’t like it much either. I think I might recruit a few replacement shots from the bluray, where possible as an alternative.
So what is the point of regrading it in the first place?
We want it corrected don’t we?
Not just another version?
Well, you could argue, that an official release based on the original color timed interpositive would have lower contrast than an original release print. The latter example would be an approximation to such a release, and would have the correct color timing, but lower contrast. However, I’m not really happy with how it looks, so I will stick with the original plan of reproducing the colors of the print, and attempt to replace problematic shots with the regraded bluray shots.
I think the outside shot of Indy looks ok, it’s the indoor shots that look odd. Try reducing shadows a bit without pumping up the overall contrast, that shouldn’t cause artifacts and will get closer to the look of the 35mm. I think you should be able to find a happy medium.
I think the outside shot of Indy looks ok, it’s the indoor shots that look odd. Try reducing shadows a bit without pumping up the overall contrast, that shouldn’t cause artifacts and will get closer to the look of the 35mm. I think you should be able to find a happy medium.
I think I solved the problem, such that I can keep the LPP contrast without adjustments and without artifacts, so no happy medium is required luckily.
I also noticed that not only the bluray, but also the WOWOW suffers from the effects of DNR, although to a lesser extend. Here’s an example of such a frame. The difference in detail between the bluray and the WOWOW is especially apparent, if I regrade the bluray to match the colors of the WOWOW.
Bluray:
WOWOW:
Bluray matched to WOWOW:
Note that both the WOWOW and the bluray have less detail than the 35mm, despite the higher contrast in the brighter areas of the WOWOW, compared to the 35mm. As such, the regrade will have less detail than the 35mm for such frames, but more detail than the bluray.
35mm LPP:
Bluray:
WOWOW:
WOWOW matched to 35mm LPP:
Indeed! People often compare two sources and conclude that one of them lacks DNR, when it simply has less than the other. Apart from films that have been restored in a meticulous, frame-by-frame fashion (and these are few and far between), it’s hard to find modern transfers that are completely free of DNR.
I can’t say I like the way that looks. Is is possible to go somewhere in between?
I don’t like it much either. I think I might recruit a few replacement shots from the bluray, where possible as an alternative.
So what is the point of regrading it in the first place?
We want it corrected don’t we?
Not just another version?Well, you could argue, that an official release based on the original color timed interpositive would have lower contrast than an original release print. The latter example would be an approximation to such a release, and would have the correct color timing, but lower contrast. However, I’m not really happy with how it looks, so I will stick with the original plan of reproducing the colors of the print, and attempt to replace problematic shots with the regraded bluray shots.
Since you’re replacing some shots anyway, are you going to drop in the shots that are not altered for the Blu Ray?
I can’t say I like the way that looks. Is is possible to go somewhere in between?
I don’t like it much either. I think I might recruit a few replacement shots from the bluray, where possible as an alternative.
So what is the point of regrading it in the first place?
We want it corrected don’t we?
Not just another version?Well, you could argue, that an official release based on the original color timed interpositive would have lower contrast than an original release print. The latter example would be an approximation to such a release, and would have the correct color timing, but lower contrast. However, I’m not really happy with how it looks, so I will stick with the original plan of reproducing the colors of the print, and attempt to replace problematic shots with the regraded bluray shots.
Since you’re replacing some shots anyway, are you going to drop in the shots that are not altered for the Blu Ray?
That’s the plan…
It’s kind of shocking that the 35mm, which is 4th generation, sometimes has more detail than a state of the art scan directly from the camera negative. That underlines how much DNR and color filtering was done after the scan. Imagine how sharp the raw scan of the negative must be.
I can’t say I like the way that looks. Is is possible to go somewhere in between?
I don’t like it much either. I think I might recruit a few replacement shots from the bluray, where possible as an alternative.
So what is the point of regrading it in the first place?
We want it corrected don’t we?
Not just another version?Well, you could argue, that an official release based on the original color timed interpositive would have lower contrast than an original release print. The latter example would be an approximation to such a release, and would have the correct color timing, but lower contrast. However, I’m not really happy with how it looks, so I will stick with the original plan of reproducing the colors of the print, and attempt to replace problematic shots with the regraded bluray shots.
Since you’re replacing some shots anyway, are you going to drop in the shots that are not altered for the Blu Ray?
That’s the plan…
Okay, I must have missed something then.
I can’t say I like the way that looks. Is is possible to go somewhere in between?
I don’t like it much either. I think I might recruit a few replacement shots from the bluray, where possible as an alternative.
So what is the point of regrading it in the first place?
We want it corrected don’t we?
Not just another version?Well, you could argue, that an official release based on the original color timed interpositive would have lower contrast than an original release print. The latter example would be an approximation to such a release, and would have the correct color timing, but lower contrast. However, I’m not really happy with how it looks, so I will stick with the original plan of reproducing the colors of the print, and attempt to replace problematic shots with the regraded bluray shots.
Since you’re replacing some shots anyway, are you going to drop in the shots that are not altered for the Blu Ray?
That’s the plan…
Okay, I must have missed something then.
I believe the plane shot is the only one the blu had that the wowow doesn’t. Maybe the maps shots are different?
I can’t say I like the way that looks. Is is possible to go somewhere in between?
I don’t like it much either. I think I might recruit a few replacement shots from the bluray, where possible as an alternative.
So what is the point of regrading it in the first place?
We want it corrected don’t we?
Not just another version?Well, you could argue, that an official release based on the original color timed interpositive would have lower contrast than an original release print. The latter example would be an approximation to such a release, and would have the correct color timing, but lower contrast. However, I’m not really happy with how it looks, so I will stick with the original plan of reproducing the colors of the print, and attempt to replace problematic shots with the regraded bluray shots.
Since you’re replacing some shots anyway, are you going to drop in the shots that are not altered for the Blu Ray?
That’s the plan…
Okay, I must have missed something then.
Not really, I never said I would do it. 😉
I can’t say I like the way that looks. Is is possible to go somewhere in between?
I don’t like it much either. I think I might recruit a few replacement shots from the bluray, where possible as an alternative.
So what is the point of regrading it in the first place?
We want it corrected don’t we?
Not just another version?Well, you could argue, that an official release based on the original color timed interpositive would have lower contrast than an original release print. The latter example would be an approximation to such a release, and would have the correct color timing, but lower contrast. However, I’m not really happy with how it looks, so I will stick with the original plan of reproducing the colors of the print, and attempt to replace problematic shots with the regraded bluray shots.
Since you’re replacing some shots anyway, are you going to drop in the shots that are not altered for the Blu Ray?
That’s the plan…
Okay, I must have missed something then.
I believe the plane shot is the only one the blu had that the wowow doesn’t. Maybe the maps shots are different?
Yeah, the transparency on the red lines is different.
It’s this shot.
The 5 stars are clear in the 35mm, faint in the wowow and removed in the blu. A minor change, but a digital change nonetheless.
Here’s how the regrade looks for the star shot.
WOWOW:
WOWOW matched to 35mm LPP:
There are some compression artifacts visible in the regraded frame, but this is most likely due to the fact, that I’m using a bluray recompression of the WOWOW for the current test examples, as is evident when I apply the color matching model to the similar WOWOW frame posted by litemaker, which does not show the artifacts:
WOWOW:
WOWOW regraded:
Here are two more regraded frames.
35mm LPP:
WOWOW:
WOWOW matched to 35mm LPP:
35mm LPP:
WOWOW:
WOWOW matched to 35mm LPP:
Will this be a BD25 or BD50?
Will this be a BD25 or BD50?
The current plan is to do the initial release as a 30-40 GB mkv, so a bluray version will be BD50.
Looking good. You can really see how oversaturated the wowow is by comparing the red flags before and after. The blu-ray is even worse.
For the fire shot, I would personally retain some of the detail which is blown out in the 35mm if possible.
The process I will be using, is to first do a complete regrade of the WOWOW. I will subsequently look for shots, that will need replacement by alternative sources, such as the bluray. The final regrade should be completely synced to the bluray.
The time consuming regrading process has begun.
35mm LPP:
WOWOW:
WOWOW regraded:
35mm LPP:
WOWOW:
WOWOW regraded:
