I'm not sure if there's development yet. There isn't a whole lot that can be done until he has the 35mm sources, which I don't think he does yet, but I don't know all of the facts by any means, so I may be wrong.
The Person in Question
You're right.
So, I was thinking while I'm waiting for the footage, maybe I could put the cut together and start color correcting, so I'd like to ask, what specific frame differences are there between the NTSC GOUT and PAL GOUT of ROTJ? In other words, what do I have to do to make sure the movie stays in sync with the audio preservations the whole time?
Actually all our frame references use the PAL GOUT for Jedi, because someone, at some point, decided that the PAL GOUT had slightly more detail for Jedi. So you'd actually be making a mistake by using the NTSC GOUT. i.e. dark_jedi's upscales and various audio tracks use the PAL GOUT frames. hariy_hen's ROTJ 5.1 audio used NTSC GOUT by mistake, but he plans to fix this.
So we use NTSC GOUT for SW and Empire, PAL GOUT for Jedi. Because we're weird that way.
Oh, right!
I wouldn't mind hearing if you plan on timing the burnt-in subtitles any differently for the next version (i.e. appearing or disappearing on different frames), or changing their appearance (positioning, size, etc) from 1.x. I'm really hoping "No" for timing differences, but early notice would help me.
CatBus said:hariy_hen's ROTJ 5.1 audio used NTSC GOUT by mistake, but he plans to fix this.
I could be wrong, but I think that Belbucus' audio pre-dates the decision to use the PAL GOUT and is also synced to the NTSC GOUT.
Actually, I'm not sure yet but I will be using Puggo's transfer as a reference and I'm fairly sure that there will be some timing differences from v1.0, which I think used the DVD subs for timing reference.
Chewtobacca said:
CatBus said:hariy_hen's ROTJ 5.1 audio used NTSC GOUT by mistake, but he plans to fix this.
I could be wrong, but I think that Belbucus' audio pre-dates the decision to use the PAL GOUT and is also synced to the NTSC GOUT.
He did work on Jedi's audio? I just remember him doing the Stereo and Mono 77 mixes on S.W.
What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
Mavimao said: He did work on Jedi's audio? I just remember him doing the Stereo and Mono 77 mixes on S.W.
Belbucus definitely released audio for all three films because I still have the delay values.
SW: + 1.017s
ESB: + .948s
ROTJ: + 1.015s
I can't remember what the tracks were, nor do I know whether Harmy has any use for them, but I thought I'd point out that (as far I can recall) they are all synced to the NTSC GOUT.
Ah interesting. Whatever the case may be, this would be the occasion for our group to finally agree that the PAL gout slowed down to NTCS speed is the official frame count for all GOUT-based audio and video restorations for Return of the Jedi.
What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.
I vote yea!
Uh, yeah, PAL frames or we're already totally screwed. Please don't switch back to NTSC, or people won't be able to share audio between your project and others, e.g. dark_jedi's.
And Harmy--dammit about the burnt-in sub timing, but I'm sure I'll survive.
EDIT: Regarding the Belbucus tracks, I think we're likely to get another digital stereo track from schorman's archive, for '83 and '93, which will hopefully be better quality, as well as giving us a chance to sync to the PAL frames. If Puggo discovered a unique 16mm Jedi mono track (did he?), then we can do that as well. Resyncing a handful of audio tracks for which we have excellent-quality sources available is the least of our worries.
Mavimao said:
the PAL gout slowed down to NTCS speed is the official frame count
BTW, even if the PAL GOUT isn't slowed down, the frame count is still the same ;)
Laserschwert said:
Mavimao said:
the PAL gout slowed down to NTCS speed is the official frame count
BTW, even if the PAL GOUT isn't slowed down, the frame count is still the same ;)
Indeed! Silly me! I meant to say that audio restorations would be done at NTSC speed, but I think I was too eager to get to sleep last night.
What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.
Belbucus made the first GOUT-synched PCM tracks for all three films using the 1993 mixes, and all three are synched to the NTSC versions. These are what I've used for the 5.1, and I'd like to continue to do so.
Don't forget that my audio tracks aren't just for these releases alone: I intend them to ready for use in any GOUT-synched fan project. Making multiple versions to accommodate different video frame counts confuses the issue and is logistically impractical. The addition or removal of video frames is far easier than changing the edit of every audio track. Also, dark_jedi has stated that his version of RotJ will be NTSC-synched despite using the PAL as the video source.
As I recall, there are two places in which the PAL and NTSC copies of RotJ differ. The first is at the end of the shot of the rebel fleet, after Luke's conversation with Ben: the NTSC is missing two frames here. The other happens during the Ewok battle; in this case, the PAL is missing one frame. I believe both are reel changes, but I haven't confirmed that yet.
The first difference can be solved by removing the two frames from the end of the shot to match the NTSC. The second can probably be solved by doing nothing, since it seems likely the Bluray would contain this frame which the PAL lacks.
Another thing to watch out for is whatever caused an extra frame to appear at the beginning of ESB 2.0. It seems to me that consulting with Darth Mallwalker to confirm that the video is accurately GOUT-synched before release would be a good idea, since he is very good at that sort of thing.
Ugh. I suppose the upside of using NTSC-synced video is that PAL-synced audio will be, at worst, two frames late, which is more tolerable than two frames early.
Here's the original discussion of the frame differences. PAL has two extra frames at the Dagobah-to-fleet transition. NTSC has an extra frame during the Endor battle after the Ewoks jump over a log.
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/post/457548/#TopicPost457548
The screencaps appear to be dead though, so maybe you could get frame numbers from Darth Mallwalker.
Both mine and Red5's screencaps were named for their respective frame numbers,
so they can be seen in the HTML source code.
PAL 68664 & 68665
NTSC 141780
See also that thread
However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r
Harmy, I just wanted to personally thank you for making it possible for me to enjoy Star Wars again, your work on these films is glorious. Again, Thank you so much!
So Harmy, are you going NTSC on this one? I don't want to start editing until you give the word.
Also, does anyone have the French audio for ROTJ from the NTSC GOUT? This track was available on both NTSC and PAL, and I'd rather have one straight from the NTSC than a re-encode of the PAL.
If hairy_hen is synching the sound to NTSC, then I'll be using NTSC.
I guess some of us never NTSC that GOUT is our PAL.
It’s really sad when the “creative minds” behind something we hold dear are also guilty of its destruction.
Hello
I'm from Europe/Hungary so excuse my grammar mistakes please, I'm not a native speaker.
First of all I want to say thank you to Harmy and everyone who worked on this remastered version. I really hated all those CGI versions. It was really nice to watch the original masterpiece in a better quality.
Though I couldn't download the fifth and sixth episode, so I have to beg for an invitation as well :/
The mentioned episodes are on piratebay, but someone removed all the dub tracks, except the English. I like the English version too but u guys could understand me, when I was a kid I saw the original trilogy on my native language.. So for me that's the one which brings my childhood memories back.
Also, I don't know if are there any Dragon Ball fans here (SW and DB have a lot in common, the author was a huge SW fan). It would be really cool to make a fan-restored version of that too since the publishers nowadays do the same unforgivable things to the DB as Lucas do to the SW...
Anyways, sorry for the long post, I just wanted to make you guys feel some sympathy for a foreigner SW fan :P Please send me an invitation here -> alestat[dot]flowolf[at]gmail[dot]com
Thx and keep up the quality work
Edited: Problem solved, thx all.
Alestat said:
Hello
I'm from Europe/Hungary so excuse my grammar mistakes please, I'm not a native speaker.
First of all I want to say thank you to Harmy and everyone who worked on this remastered version. I really hated all those CGI versions. It was really nice to watch the original masterpiece in a better quality.
Though I couldn't download the fifth and sixth episode, so I have to beg for an invitation as well :/
The mentioned episodes are on piratebay, but someone removed all the dub tracks, except the English. I like the English version too but u guys could understand me, when I was a kid I saw the original trilogy on my native language.. So for me that's the one which brings my childhood memories back.
Also, I don't know if are there any Dragon Ball fans here (SW and DB have a lot in common, the author was a huge SW fan). It would be really cool to make a fan-restored version of that too since the publishers nowadays do the same unforgivable things to the DB as Lucas do to the SW...
Anyways, sorry for the long post, I just wanted to make you guys feel some sympathy for a foreigner SW fan :P Please send me an invitation here -> alestat[dot]flowolf[at]gmail[dot]com
Thx and keep up the quality work
So this makes three. I know people don't listen to those of us who think we shouldn't be handing out invites to those who come here for the invite and are never heard from again...but this guy is spamming the forum with the same post in multiple places. Don't encourage it!