The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 107

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

TV’s Frink said:

The issue is unequal treatment of equal male and female characters.

But are they (Rey and Luke, I assume) the same? I hardly think so.

At the risk of continuing a debate that I have to keep pointing out has been debated endlessly on this site for two years now, I never said they’re the same at all. And I have no interest in whatever that video is trying to say.

it is really annoying that you deliberately refuse to consider evidence.

Only “evidence” consisting of someone I don’t know talking at a camera.

If he wanted to actually explain what the video says, I might have cared, except I don’t give a shit about the Mary Sue argument for all the reasons I’m endlessly repeating and also because he completely missed the point of what I was saying in the first place.

If he wanted to actually explain what the video says

It rewrites Luke’s character to be more in line with Rey in TFA, mostly for comedic effect. No talking heads.

lovelikewinter said:
I’d have rather he said Palpatine. However, I’m thankful we didn’t get Hayden Christensen in this, so he’s not going to be in the Trilogy unless JJ pulls a 180 on his ideas of the Prequels.

He should have said that the Jedi were so blind that a simple senator took power, it be more powerful and less … cringey. Now we have to consider that Luke caught up with friends for a drink after the war in that 1950s diner.

TV’s Frink said:

DrDre said:

in the end all she got from Luke were a couple of incomplete lessons, and some books

Sounds like Luke in the OT, minus the books. :p

except that right after he got those lessons, Luke got his rear end handed to him by Vader, where as before the lessons Rey renders Ren helpless.

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

DrDre said:

in the end all she got from Luke were a couple of incomplete lessons, and some books

Sounds like Luke in the OT, minus the books. :p

except that right after he got those lessons, Luke got his rear end handed to him by Vader, where as before the lessons Rey renders Ren helpless.

This has already been addressed.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

DrDre said:

Porkins4real said:

DrDre said:

Mocata said:

DrDre said:
Yeah, but that just a way of bypassing the argument.

By weighing up the things we see on screen and coming to a rational conclusion? TFA aside what does she do in TLJ that makes her so perfect? Screw everything up and give Kylo a swanky throne? Made of solid gold? I don’t get it. Then again we had a whole debate about how Luke never choked anyone, so who knows what powers of inference anybody has these days. So many angry people.

I wasn’t part of the Luke Force choke debate, sorry.

Given Mark Hammill believe Luke never used Force Choke we can put that debate to bed.

I personally allways interpreted the scene as signifying Luke’s a darker character now, and more like his father than he might think. So, to me that allways was a case of Luke using a Force choke, but if Hamill or anyone else sees it differently, I suppose only George Lucas has the answer. The ROTJ screenplay doesn’t speak of a Force choke, so you may very well be right.

anyone know exactly what the screenplay says in that scene?

It doesn’t matter. What matters is what’s on the screen, and they’re clearly being choked. They make gurgling sounds and put their hands up to their throats.

The screenplay might show what they intended Luke to be doing in that scene.

Why is this still a debate?

Because I’ve watched that scene millions of times over the last 34 years since it came out, and I never got the idea he was using force choke.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

TV’s Frink said:

The issue is unequal treatment of equal male and female characters.

But are they (Rey and Luke, I assume) the same? I hardly think so.

At the risk of continuing a debate that I have to keep pointing out has been debated endlessly on this site for two years now, I never said they’re the same at all. And I have no interest in whatever that video is trying to say.

it is really annoying that you deliberately refuse to consider evidence.

Only “evidence” consisting of someone I don’t know talking at a camera.

who for all you know might be making some good points and arguments.

If he wanted to actually explain what the video says, I might have cared, except I don’t give a shit about the Mary Sue argument for all the reasons I’m endlessly repeating and also because he completely missed the point of what I was saying in the first place.

Why does he have to explain what the video says when you can watch it and know what is says?

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

DrDre said:

in the end all she got from Luke were a couple of incomplete lessons, and some books

Sounds like Luke in the OT, minus the books. :p

except that right after he got those lessons, Luke got his rear end handed to him by Vader, where as before the lessons Rey renders Ren helpless.

This has already been addressed.

Not to my satisfaction.

DrDre said:

Mocata said:

DrDre said:
Either way none of the films suggested balance of the Force implies dark and light balancing each other, and dark rising to balance light or vicd versa. In any case this interpretation has been debunked by Lucas himself.

To be fair this is inconsistent in the prequels like everything else. Lucas is hardly creating a fully developed canon ahead of time for later film makers to reference. In TPM they say the Sith were extinct, and the boy could just be “the one”. Then in (I think ROTS) this changes suddenly when Obi-wan says Anakin was destined to create balance by “destroying the Sith”. Who were extinct.

I agree, and I never really liked the Chosen One/balance angle, since it was little more than a plot device, and pretty underdeveloped.

I was actually fine with Rey’s depiction in TFA, and accepted that she was able to figure some things out for herself. She initially failed in using the Jedi mind trick, and Kylo Ren was seriously injured, and I expected her to be trained by Luke in TLJ, but in the end all she got from Luke were a couple of incomplete lessons, and some books, and despite this her Force powers continued to grow to the extend, that she beat Luke in a duel, saved Kylo in their battle with Snoke’s guards, and moved a ton of rocks with ease. That’s where I checked out.

1. She did not beat Luke in that duel
2. She didn’t “save” Ren, she just helped him
3. We didn’t actually see her lift the rocks, so we don’t know how “easy” it was

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

DrDre said:

Porkins4real said:

DrDre said:

Mocata said:

DrDre said:
Yeah, but that just a way of bypassing the argument.

By weighing up the things we see on screen and coming to a rational conclusion? TFA aside what does she do in TLJ that makes her so perfect? Screw everything up and give Kylo a swanky throne? Made of solid gold? I don’t get it. Then again we had a whole debate about how Luke never choked anyone, so who knows what powers of inference anybody has these days. So many angry people.

I wasn’t part of the Luke Force choke debate, sorry.

Given Mark Hammill believe Luke never used Force Choke we can put that debate to bed.

I personally allways interpreted the scene as signifying Luke’s a darker character now, and more like his father than he might think. So, to me that allways was a case of Luke using a Force choke, but if Hamill or anyone else sees it differently, I suppose only George Lucas has the answer. The ROTJ screenplay doesn’t speak of a Force choke, so you may very well be right.

anyone know exactly what the screenplay says in that scene?

It doesn’t matter. What matters is what’s on the screen, and they’re clearly being choked. They make gurgling sounds and put their hands up to their throats.

The screenplay might show what they intended Luke to be doing in that scene.

Why is this still a debate?

Because I’ve watched that scene millions of times over the last 34 years since it came out, and I never got the idea he was using force choke.

And your perception is the be-all-end-all? Didn’t you miss the salt thing on Crait?

Does anyone know what the dice things were that Luke handed Leia?

I’d to know why Yoda, after he died, didn’t appear in the Emperor’s thrown room and hit him with that lightning.

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

DrDre said:

in the end all she got from Luke were a couple of incomplete lessons, and some books

Sounds like Luke in the OT, minus the books. :p

except that right after he got those lessons, Luke got his rear end handed to him by Vader, where as before the lessons Rey renders Ren helpless.

This has already been addressed.

Not to my satisfaction.

Yes I know. I’m just saying it’s already been answered. You disagree, fine.

Jeebus said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

DrDre said:

Porkins4real said:

DrDre said:

Mocata said:

DrDre said:
Yeah, but that just a way of bypassing the argument.

By weighing up the things we see on screen and coming to a rational conclusion? TFA aside what does she do in TLJ that makes her so perfect? Screw everything up and give Kylo a swanky throne? Made of solid gold? I don’t get it. Then again we had a whole debate about how Luke never choked anyone, so who knows what powers of inference anybody has these days. So many angry people.

I wasn’t part of the Luke Force choke debate, sorry.

Given Mark Hammill believe Luke never used Force Choke we can put that debate to bed.

I personally allways interpreted the scene as signifying Luke’s a darker character now, and more like his father than he might think. So, to me that allways was a case of Luke using a Force choke, but if Hamill or anyone else sees it differently, I suppose only George Lucas has the answer. The ROTJ screenplay doesn’t speak of a Force choke, so you may very well be right.

anyone know exactly what the screenplay says in that scene?

It doesn’t matter. What matters is what’s on the screen, and they’re clearly being choked. They make gurgling sounds and put their hands up to their throats.

The screenplay might show what they intended Luke to be doing in that scene.

Why is this still a debate?

Because I’ve watched that scene millions of times over the last 34 years since it came out, and I never got the idea he was using force choke.

And your perception is the be-all-end-all? Didn’t you miss the salt thing on Crait?

I only watched TLJ once. I’ve watched ROFJ millions of times.

Mielr said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

DrDre said:

Porkins4real said:

DrDre said:

Mocata said:

DrDre said:
Yeah, but that just a way of bypassing the argument.

By weighing up the things we see on screen and coming to a rational conclusion? TFA aside what does she do in TLJ that makes her so perfect? Screw everything up and give Kylo a swanky throne? Made of solid gold? I don’t get it. Then again we had a whole debate about how Luke never choked anyone, so who knows what powers of inference anybody has these days. So many angry people.

I wasn’t part of the Luke Force choke debate, sorry.

Given Mark Hammill believe Luke never used Force Choke we can put that debate to bed.

I personally allways interpreted the scene as signifying Luke’s a darker character now, and more like his father than he might think. So, to me that allways was a case of Luke using a Force choke, but if Hamill or anyone else sees it differently, I suppose only George Lucas has the answer. The ROTJ screenplay doesn’t speak of a Force choke, so you may very well be right.

anyone know exactly what the screenplay says in that scene?

It doesn’t matter. What matters is what’s on the screen, and they’re clearly being choked. They make gurgling sounds and put their hands up to their throats.

The screenplay might show what they intended Luke to be doing in that scene.

Why is this still a debate?

Because I’ve watched that scene millions of times over the last 34 years since it came out, and I never got the idea he was using force choke.

I posted the quotes from the novelization AND the screenplay on pg. 106 (is anyone listening?! LOL!!!)

Yes, I saw. Thankyou.

The screen play doesn’t make clear what powers he is using.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

DrDre said:

in the end all she got from Luke were a couple of incomplete lessons, and some books

Sounds like Luke in the OT, minus the books. :p

except that right after he got those lessons, Luke got his rear end handed to him by Vader, where as before the lessons Rey renders Ren helpless.

This has already been addressed.

Not to my satisfaction.

Yes I know. I’m just saying it’s already been answered. You disagree, fine.

okay.

SilverWook said:

Mocata said:

lovelikewinter said:
I’d have rather he said Palpatine. However, I’m thankful we didn’t get Hayden Christensen in this, so he’s not going to be in the Trilogy unless JJ pulls a 180 on his ideas of the Prequels.

He should have said that the Jedi were so blind that a simple senator took power, it be more powerful and less … cringey. Now we have to consider that Luke caught up with friends for a drink after the war in that 1950s diner.

That might have been less annoying to everyone who wants the prequels to cease to exist, but Disney likes making money off that trilogy too. 😉
I still don’t get why people have issues with Dexter’s diner.

My issue with it is all the blatant CGI - Ewan is clearly the only real thing in the scene. To that point, their “hug” is one of the most embarrassing things in the whole PT. It probably would have looked more natural just seeing Ewan hugging air. Otherwise I kind of like Dex’s character.