The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 81

Mavimao said:

DrDre said:

joefavs said:

… but they cut it. For exactly that reason.

Yes, but it betrays RJ’s feelings and intentions going into this. So, he’s taken off some of the sharper edges, but he still turned the Jedi’s 1000 generation legacy of peace and justice, and the OT’s theme of hope and redemption into a legacy of failure for both the Jedi and Luke personally. It’s more revisionist than Lucas has ever done.

Van een vlieg een olifant maken.

It’s just a movie, doc. Deep breaths.

I hated Alien Resurrection but that didn’t diminish my enjoyment of the other films.

It’s more than just a single movie, as it affects the franchise, and how these classic characters are going to be viewed going forward.

For me personally it has managed to suck the enjoyment out of watching future Star Wars installments, specifically episode IX more effectively than the prequels ever did, and that’s a bitter pill to swallow.

I’m perfectly fine with RJ creating his own story, I’m just very unhappy that he did it over the back of the previously established movies. Rather than build on the foundation laid by the OT and PT, he burned it down to reveal his own construction using Lucas’ building blocks.

Why would you care how other people view classic characters going forward?

As someone who disliked the movie said previously, new Star Wars just isn’t for them anymore. I get the disappointment, I don’t get the anger.

But Luke changes his tune after his conversation with Yoda, returns to save his friends, WITHOUT killing Kylo, leaving the door open for his possible redemption, and goes out expressing hope that Rey will get the Jedi going again after all. He strayed for the seven or so years between Kylo’s fall and the start of the ST, but by the end of the movie his faith in the Jedi is restored. The beginning of the movie deconstructs the whole Jedi thing, sure, but I don’t understand how people aren’t seeing that the last act reconstructs it.

I just am frustrated that fans always seem to talk about the things they didn’t like.

Remember when being a fan of something meant that you talked about the parts you liked? Its like that article Dom shared a while ago. super fan or super hater.

This is not directed at anyone who posted here recently, but we did have some people earlier in the thread like this. hopefully all cleaned up by now.

joefavs said:

But Luke changes his tune after his conversation with Yoda, returns to save his friends, WITHOUT killing Kylo, leaving the door open for his possible redemption, and goes out expressing hope that Rey will get the Jedi going again after all. He strayed for the seven or so years between Kylo’s fall and the start of the ST, but by the end of the movie his faith in the Jedi is restored. The beginning of the movie deconstructs the whole Jedi thing, sure, but I don’t understand how people aren’t seeing that the last act reconstructs it.

Very good point. and we shall all have to see IX to find out where this goes.

TV’s Frink said:

Why would you care how other people view classic characters going forward?

As someone who disliked the movie said previously, new Star Wars just isn’t for them anymore. I get the disappointment, I don’t get the anger.

I’ve seen many similar expressions of dismay in these boards towards Lucas and his prequels, and these criticisms continue to be expressed to this day, more than a decade after they’ve been released. It’s only been a week since TLJ’s release. I don’t get why it’s so strange, that some of us are expressing frustration at the direction taken by the powers that be, especially considering that we were very much looking forward to TLJ and the continuation of the saga.

The prequels were terrible but I don’t lose any sleep over it.

To repeat: I fully understand the disappointment that some of you feel, even if I think you’re seeing completely different things in the movie that I do. But the anger I see just makes no sense.

joefavs said:

But Luke changes his tune after his conversation with Yoda, returns to save his friends, WITHOUT killing Kylo, leaving the door open for his possible redemption, and goes out expressing hope that Rey will get the Jedi going again after all. He strayed for the seven or so years between Kylo’s fall and the start of the ST, but by the end of the movie his faith in the Jedi is restored. The beginning of the movie deconstructs the whole Jedi thing, sure, but I don’t understand how people aren’t seeing that the last act reconstructs it.

Yes, but my frustration is that the ST is not forging it’s own path. It’s leaving us in a similar place as TESB, with more Empire versus tebels, another new hope, and sacrifices the classic characters and their socalled legendary status to get there. Luke has to go to rock bottom, only to be brought back to a state similar to his state at the end of ROTJ, only now having had a hand in the galaxy’s suffering, such that a far less developed and almost too perfect and somewhat ahallow new hope can take his place.

TV’s Frink said:

The prequels were terrible but I don’t lose any sleep over it.

To repeat: I fully understand the disappointment that some of you feel, even if I think you’re seeing completely different things in the movie that I do. But the anger I see just makes no sense.

I wouldn’t call it anger, just disappointment and frustration leading to some harsh criticism.

Not directed at you necessarily, as some of the posts here have been much more along those lines than yours.

joefavs said:

But Luke changes his tune after his conversation with Yoda, returns to save his friends, WITHOUT killing Kylo, leaving the door open for his possible redemption, and goes out expressing hope that Rey will get the Jedi going again after all. He strayed for the seven or so years between Kylo’s fall and the start of the ST, but by the end of the movie his faith in the Jedi is restored. The beginning of the movie deconstructs the whole Jedi thing, sure, but I don’t understand how people aren’t seeing that the last act reconstructs it.

Exactly! People seem to take all of Luke’s harsh words on the Jedi early on as if they’re the gospel according to Rian Johnson. Same goes for Kylo Ren and his new motto (“let the past die, kill it if you have to.”).

Just because the characters say things doesn’t mean that that’s what the film itself is saying.

Overheard in the theater at the end of my last viewing of TLJ:

Stranger to my left: "WOW, that was amazing, just perfect."
Stranger to my right: after a long quiet pause, “That was nothing like what i expected…”

I tell you, this just reinforces my personal belief (which could very well be wrong) that Expectations are a powerful thing, and most of the reason for the current fan ratings.

DominicCobb said:

Just because the characters say things doesn’t mean that that’s what the film itself is saying.

I sure hope Rey isn’t related to anyone important though.

TV’s Frink said:

DominicCobb said:

Just because the characters say things doesn’t mean that that’s what the film itself is saying.

I sure hope Rey isn’t related to anyone important though.

I don’t see any reason to doubt that.

Has anyone seen this movie in a Laser IMAX theater? would you go out of your way (as in three hours, and massive logistical planning) to do it?

I am very tempted to do this, and i guess i am either looking to be talked into it, or talked out of it.

TV’s Frink said:

Not directed at you necessarily, as some of the posts here have been much more along those lines than yours.

I know it’s sort of frustrating to have us buzzkills in here all the time raining on the parade. 😉

I mellowed somewhat with respect to the PT, and there are enough good scenes in TLJ, that I will be able to enjoy it on it’s own terms. I’m just left wondering, did we really need another Empire versus rebels reprise? Does it not diminish the OT, if the ST continues to recycle some of the OT’s best moments, even if we get a few new twists for good measure? Is the ST journey really worth the effort if we end up in the same place at the end of it, only now with Rey in stead of Luke?

DominicCobb said:

joefavs said:

But Luke changes his tune after his conversation with Yoda, returns to save his friends, WITHOUT killing Kylo, leaving the door open for his possible redemption, and goes out expressing hope that Rey will get the Jedi going again after all. He strayed for the seven or so years between Kylo’s fall and the start of the ST, but by the end of the movie his faith in the Jedi is restored. The beginning of the movie deconstructs the whole Jedi thing, sure, but I don’t understand how people aren’t seeing that the last act reconstructs it.

Exactly! People seem to take all of Luke’s harsh words on the Jedi early on as if they’re the gospel according to Rian Johnson. Same goes for Kylo Ren and his new motto (“let the past die, kill it if you have to.”).

Just because the characters say things doesn’t mean that that’s what the film itself is saying.

Yes, but that’s an interesting question. What is TLJ saying exactly? The burning of the Jedi tree seems perfectly in line with Kylo’s lines in the film. The movie spends a lot of time deconstructing previously held conceptions and expectations, but at least to some of us doesn’t really seem to fill the void it leaves behind.

DrDre said:

Does it not diminish the OT, if the ST continues to recycle some of the OT’s best moments

Only if you allow it to, my friend, only if you allow it to. 😉

DrDre said:

What is TLJ saying exactly?

[Yoda said:]

the greatest teacher, failure is.

Now, that may not exactly be what the movie is saying about the Jedi Order specifically, but I believe that is TLJ’s overall thesis statement.

TV’s Frink said:

DrDre said:

Does it not diminish the OT, if the ST continues to recycle some of the OT’s best moments

Only if you allow it to, my friend, only if you allow it to. 😉

I suppose you’re right. As the famous Inspector Clouseau said to his former boss Dreyfus:

“Out with the bad, in with the good!”

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

joefavs said:

But Luke changes his tune after his conversation with Yoda, returns to save his friends, WITHOUT killing Kylo, leaving the door open for his possible redemption, and goes out expressing hope that Rey will get the Jedi going again after all. He strayed for the seven or so years between Kylo’s fall and the start of the ST, but by the end of the movie his faith in the Jedi is restored. The beginning of the movie deconstructs the whole Jedi thing, sure, but I don’t understand how people aren’t seeing that the last act reconstructs it.

Exactly! People seem to take all of Luke’s harsh words on the Jedi early on as if they’re the gospel according to Rian Johnson. Same goes for Kylo Ren and his new motto (“let the past die, kill it if you have to.”).

Just because the characters say things doesn’t mean that that’s what the film itself is saying.

Yes, but that’s an interesting question. What is TLJ saying exactly? The burning of the Jedi tree seems perfectly in line with Kylo’s lines in the film. The movie spends a lot of time deconstructing previously held conceptions and expectations, but at least to some of us doesn’t really seem to fill the void it leaves behind.

Ironically enough I think it’s arguing against extreme opinions. On one side you have Kylo with “kill the past,” on the other you have Luke who’s trapped in a prison of the past. They are both obsessed with it, in their own way (as is Rey, with her parents).

I feel like I’ve said this before but when Luke goes to burn the tree, he’s not killing the past, he’s just furthering his obsession with the Jedi Order and how wrong he thinks they are. But of course he can’t actually go through with it, he can’t let go of the religion and the texts and the dogma and the history and all of it. When Yoda burns the tree, Luke takes that as confirmation: “So it is time for the Jedi to end.” Yoda responds “Time it is… for you to look past a pile of old books.” The message is clear, Yoda isn’t saying that it’s time for the Jedi to end and for the past to die, he’s just saying that it’s time to move on. The fact that Luke says he won’t be the last Jedi and that Rey saves the books just proves this further. Move on from the past, but don’t forget it. That’s the choice Rey makes when she doesn’t go with Kylo, that’s the choice she makes when she returns to the Resistance and her friends.

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

joefavs said:

But Luke changes his tune after his conversation with Yoda, returns to save his friends, WITHOUT killing Kylo, leaving the door open for his possible redemption, and goes out expressing hope that Rey will get the Jedi going again after all. He strayed for the seven or so years between Kylo’s fall and the start of the ST, but by the end of the movie his faith in the Jedi is restored. The beginning of the movie deconstructs the whole Jedi thing, sure, but I don’t understand how people aren’t seeing that the last act reconstructs it.

Exactly! People seem to take all of Luke’s harsh words on the Jedi early on as if they’re the gospel according to Rian Johnson. Same goes for Kylo Ren and his new motto (“let the past die, kill it if you have to.”).

Just because the characters say things doesn’t mean that that’s what the film itself is saying.

Yes, but that’s an interesting question. What is TLJ saying exactly? The burning of the Jedi tree seems perfectly in line with Kylo’s lines in the film. The movie spends a lot of time deconstructing previously held conceptions and expectations, but at least to some of us doesn’t really seem to fill the void it leaves behind.

Ironically enough I think it’s arguing against extreme opinions. On one side you have Kylo with “kill the past,” on the other you have Luke who’s trapped in a prison of the past. They are both obsessed with it, in their own way (as is Rey, with her parents).

I feel like I’ve said this before but when Luke goes to burn the tree, he’s not killing the past, he’s just furthering his obsession with the Jedi Order and how wrong he thinks they are. But of course he can’t actually go through with it, he can’t let go of the religion and the texts and the dogma and the history and all of it. When Yoda burns the tree, Luke takes that as confirmation: “So it is time for the Jedi to end.” Yoda responds “Time it is… for you to look past a pile of old books.” The message is clear, Yoda isn’t saying that it’s time for the Jedi to end and for the past to die, he’s just saying that it’s time to move on. The fact that Luke says he won’t be the last Jedi and that Rey saves the books just proves this further. Move on from the past, but don’t forget it. That’s the choice Rey makes when she doesn’t go with Kylo, that’s the choice she makes when she returns to the Resistance and her friends.

Good point, hadn’t looked at it that way. Perhaps you’re right, and I’m like Luke unable to look past a pile of old films. Maybe you’re my Yoda. You wouldn’t happen to have a screwy sense of humour, would you (and some pointy ears)? 😉

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

joefavs said:

But Luke changes his tune after his conversation with Yoda, returns to save his friends, WITHOUT killing Kylo, leaving the door open for his possible redemption, and goes out expressing hope that Rey will get the Jedi going again after all. He strayed for the seven or so years between Kylo’s fall and the start of the ST, but by the end of the movie his faith in the Jedi is restored. The beginning of the movie deconstructs the whole Jedi thing, sure, but I don’t understand how people aren’t seeing that the last act reconstructs it.

Exactly! People seem to take all of Luke’s harsh words on the Jedi early on as if they’re the gospel according to Rian Johnson. Same goes for Kylo Ren and his new motto (“let the past die, kill it if you have to.”).

Just because the characters say things doesn’t mean that that’s what the film itself is saying.

Yes, but that’s an interesting question. What is TLJ saying exactly? The burning of the Jedi tree seems perfectly in line with Kylo’s lines in the film. The movie spends a lot of time deconstructing previously held conceptions and expectations, but at least to some of us doesn’t really seem to fill the void it leaves behind.

Ironically enough I think it’s arguing against extreme opinions. On one side you have Kylo with “kill the past,” on the other you have Luke who’s trapped in a prison of the past. They are both obsessed with it, in their own way (as is Rey, with her parents).

I feel like I’ve said this before but when Luke goes to burn the tree, he’s not killing the past, he’s just furthering his obsession with the Jedi Order and how wrong he thinks they are. But of course he can’t actually go through with it, he can’t let go of the religion and the texts and the dogma and the history and all of it. When Yoda burns the tree, Luke takes that as confirmation: “So it is time for the Jedi to end.” Yoda responds “Time it is… for you to look past a pile of old books.” The message is clear, Yoda isn’t saying that it’s time for the Jedi to end and for the past to die, he’s just saying that it’s time to move on. The fact that Luke says he won’t be the last Jedi and that Rey saves the books just proves this further. Move on from the past, but don’t forget it. That’s the choice Rey makes when she doesn’t go with Kylo, that’s the choice she makes when she returns to the Resistance and her friends.

Cosign.