Official canon does Trump everything else. We just disagree on whether or not official canon says that the Kelvin timeline overwrites Prime Timeline. It comes down to interpretation of events of Star Trek (2009).
What do you think the words “alternate reality” mean and why do you think they would use those words if what you’re suggesting is true?
Warbler.
Lol Warbler.
What I was gonna say.
That the Kelvin timeline is an alternate universe and doesn’t overwrite the prime timeline.
Official canon says it, the movie says it, Abrams and the writers say it, but you continue to assert that it’s not the case even while arguing that official canon trumps everything else in other cases.
All of this, plus you refuse to accept the possibility in general that time travel can create an alternate universe
I do that because the idea doesn’t make sense to me.
(which, might actually the most likely scenario, were time travel to actually exist).
It is? I disagree. I think if time travel were to actually exist, it would work like we see in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban.
I think that is also very possible. What certainly is not possible is that time travel would just overwrite an existing timeline, which is what you are suggesting.
I agree, but I think it more believable than changing history creates a whole other universe.
Official canon does Trump everything else. We just disagree on whether or not official canon says that the Kelvin timeline overwrites Prime Timeline. It comes down to interpretation of events of Star Trek (2009).
What do you think the words “alternate reality” mean and why do you think they would use those words if what you’re suggesting is true?
I thought it meant that that reality had been altered due the changed made in history. I thought it meant the reality of the Prime universe had been altered and it turned into the Kelvin universe.
But if that was the intention, they would have said “he’s rewritten history” instead of “he’s created an alternate timeline,” no?
But if that was the intention, they would have said “he’s rewritten history” instead of “he’s created an alternate timeline,” no?
Yeah. They used “alternate” thinking everyone would get it. Evidently, somehow, at least one person did not.
But if that was the intention, they would have said “he’s rewritten history” instead of “he’s created an alternate timeline,” no?
maybe
But if that was the intention, they would have said “he’s rewritten history” instead of “he’s created an alternate timeline,” no?
Yeah. They used “alternate” thinking everyone would get it. Evidently, somehow, at least one person did not.
*sigh*
Warbler!
C’mon, man!
what?
Do you see the picture?
bad example if you think I am wrong. In the bttf movies they kept screwing the timeline up and then had to fix it. They didn’t create an entire other universe, they altered the already existing one.
He says in that scene that they created an alternate 1985 and can’t go back to the original timeline without undoing the very creation of the alternate timeline. BTTF is actually a pretty good example of this exact topic.
Warbler, there are days…
He says in that scene that they created an alternate 1985 and can’t go back to the original timeline without undoing the very creation of the alternate timeline.
Why can’t you, if both timelines exist?
Again to me it just makes more sense that when you go make time and change history, you change the already existing timeline and replace it, not create another timeline and now there are two existing timelines.
Warbler, there are days…
Sorry, I really don’t mean to annoy you.
Warbler said:
. . . maybe I am in error.
Maybe?
The Person in Question
maybe.
He says in that scene that they created an alternate 1985 and can’t go back to the original timeline without undoing the very creation of the alternate timeline.
Why can’t you, if both timelines exist?
Because they have a time machine, not a universe-hopping machine. They’re stuck in a particular timeline, and if they create a divergent one, they get stuck in the new one until they can undo what caused the creation of the new one. If they had a portal gun like Rick from Rick and Morty, they could just say “Ah, fuck it, too much work” and hop back to the original timeline.
Think of it like train tracks. When they create a divergence, they create a switch on the tracks to a new railway, but they don’t have the tools to simply move the switch back to the original railway to get back to it. They have to dismantle the switch altogether, which means going back slightly further than the creation of the switch and preventing its creation.
Another fun thing to think about: they’re not even trying to go back to the original timeline, since Marty created a new one in BTTF1 when he went back to 1955 and got hit by the car instead of his dad. The timeline created in BTTF2 is actually the third timeline. They’re trying to get back to the second timeline. Which raises the ethical question of, what about the original timeline? Do that version of Marty’s parents think their son went missing/was kidnapped by Lybian nationalists? And what happened to the Marty from timeline 2, the one who remembers growing up with his “fixed” parents? When he went back, did he change something else and wind up coming back to a fourth timeline? Did he get stuck in 1955 while timeline 1 Marty got to go back to the future? Is there a timeline where two, or three, or four Martys show up on 1955 Doc’s doorstep?
Time travel is confusing and tough to write, man.
He says in that scene that they created an alternate 1985 and can’t go back to the original timeline without undoing the very creation of the alternate timeline.
Why can’t you, if both timelines exist?
Because they have a time machine, not a universe-hopping machine. They’re stuck in a particular timeline, and if they create a divergent one, they get stuck in the new one until they can undo what caused the creation of the new one. If they had a portal gun like Rick from Rick and Morty, they could just say “Ah, fuck it, too much work” and hop back to the original timeline.
Think of it like train tracks. When they create a divergence, they create a switch on the tracks to a new railway, but they don’t have the tools to simply move the switch back to the original railway to get back to it. They have to dismantle the switch altogether, which means going back slightly further than the creation of the switch and preventing its creation.
Another fun thing to think about: they’re not even trying to go back to the original timeline, since Marty created a new one in BTTF1 when he went back to 1955 and got hit by the car instead of his dad. The timeline created in BTTF2 is actually the third timeline. They’re trying to get back to the second timeline. Which raises the ethical question of, what about the original timeline? Do that version of Marty’s parents think their son went missing/was kidnapped by Lybian nationalists? And what happened to the Marty from timeline 2, the one who remembers growing up with his “fixed” parents? When he went back, did he change something else and wind up coming back to a fourth timeline? Did he get stuck in 1955 while timeline 1 Marty got to go back to the future? Is there a timeline where two, or three, or four Martys show up on 1955 Doc’s doorstep?
none of that makes sense to me. It makes more sense if there is just one timeline that just gets altered over and over again.
Time travel is confusing and tough to write, man.
I agree.
If it doesn’t make sense to you, I don’t know how I can explain it in a more clear manner, so I’ll do my best to leave it alone.
But everything official about ST09 says that the Kelvin timeline is a separate entity that exists alongside the prime timeline, and it’s somewhat exasperating to me that you espouse strict adherence to official canon on the one hand while blatantly ignoring official canon in favor of your personal interpretation on the other (albeit for a different fictional universe).
But at this point I don’t think we’re going to get anywhere by continuing to discuss it.
He says in that scene that they created an alternate 1985 and can’t go back to the original timeline without undoing the very creation of the alternate timeline.
Why can’t you, if both timelines exist?
Because they have a time machine, not a universe-hopping machine. They’re stuck in a particular timeline, and if they create a divergent one, they get stuck in the new one until they can undo what caused the creation of the new one. If they had a portal gun like Rick from Rick and Morty, they could just say “Ah, fuck it, too much work” and hop back to the original timeline.
Think of it like train tracks. When they create a divergence, they create a switch on the tracks to a new railway, but they don’t have the tools to simply move the switch back to the original railway to get back to it. They have to dismantle the switch altogether, which means going back slightly further than the creation of the switch and preventing its creation.
Another fun thing to think about: they’re not even trying to go back to the original timeline, since Marty created a new one in BTTF1 when he went back to 1955 and got hit by the car instead of his dad. The timeline created in BTTF2 is actually the third timeline. They’re trying to get back to the second timeline. Which raises the ethical question of, what about the original timeline? Do that version of Marty’s parents think their son went missing/was kidnapped by Lybian nationalists? And what happened to the Marty from timeline 2, the one who remembers growing up with his “fixed” parents? When he went back, did he change something else and wind up coming back to a fourth timeline? Did he get stuck in 1955 while timeline 1 Marty got to go back to the future? Is there a timeline where two, or three, or four Martys show up on 1955 Doc’s doorstep?
none of that makes sense to me. It makes more sense if there is just one timeline that just gets altered over and over again.
Really? None of that makes sense to you? As in 0% of it makes sense to you? That was explained excellently.
The Person in Question
ChainsawAsh said:
But everything official about ST09 says that the Kelvin timeline is a separate entity that exists alongside the prime timeline, and it’s somewhat exasperating to me that you espouse strict adherence to official canon on the one hand while blatantly ignoring official canon in favor of your personal interpretation on the other (albeit for a different fictional universe).
LOL! This is so true.
The Person in Question