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Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo — Page 458

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DominicCobb said:

Tyrphanax said:

chyron8472 said:

Possessed said:

This is murrica and we stand for this song that was written during a war that was going on many years after our country was founded!

No. It’s not just a song. It’s the National Anthem of the United States of America. Its words have meaning. Its symbolism has meaning. It is not just a song. To rob it of its symbolism is to say that respect for one’s country is pointless and holds no value. It’s to say that the people who work and fight to give us the freedoms that we have were doing so without need nor purpose, and we do not honor them because who gives a crap.

But to show protest of injustice by sitting during the anthem is a legitimate form of protest, and is not inherently disrespectful toward the country itself so long as the purpose of protest is made plain.

The way I understand it is that the players are not protesting the anthem, they’re not protesting the wording or the imagery or the ideals and virtues and values it conveys that the country stands for, they are instead protesting the country because they believe that the country does not currently stand for the ideals and virtues and values set forth in the anthem.

What they are saying: “Hey, there is a disconnect in what we think and say that the country stands for, and what it actually seems to stand for, especially for people of color. We are acknowledging this in the hopes that it is rectified.”

What they are not saying: “Hey we hate the anthem and America and the veterans!”

This logic and nuance, of course, has all been lost in the conservative-driven distilled rhetoric that these people just must simply hate America and her values and everything she stands for, which is asinine to say the least, and completely shunts all attention away from the real issues, fabricating an entirely different straw man issue and ultimately solving no problems and only further dividing an already-divided populace. It feels like nobody stops to think or empathize anymore, it’s just visceral, gut, knee-jerk reactions and opinions fed to them by cable “news” channels with no thought in between.

In fact, from what I’ve heard, the whole reason it’s (usually) kneeling instead of just sitting on the bench and ignoring the whole thing is in deference to the veterans who served the country in defense of her values and ideals.

Personally, I think it is incredibly moving to see the mass kneeling going on right now (I’d be even happier if people weren’t intentionally or unintentionally misconstruing it and actually taking action to understand and empathize and reflect inwardly and make some changes, but that’s humanity for you). In a few years from now when it becomes a fad way to protest whatever (like Chyron said), maybe that’ll have worn off by then, but for now I approve.

JEDIT: Usually I hate Twitter threads and when people post them, but I’m going to break all these rules right… now:
https://twitter.com/cmclymer/status/900101086333292544

Yep yep yep.

si si si.

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suspiciouscoffee said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Just to derail the football talk, am I the only one who hates that right wing shill Ben Shapiro? People think he’s smart because he talks fast, but all he is is a die hard partisan that will defend conservative Republicanism at all cost. He’s one of the most astoundingly dishonest political sources I’ve ever encountered.

Well, clearly you only hate him because he hurt your feelings! Facts don’t care about your feelings!

/s

The irony is that he is one of the most easily “triggered” people on earth. He’s constantly bitching about stuff that doesn’t matter but hurt his political or religious sensibilities.

The Person in Question

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The anthem thing is just the latest episode in the “dumb controversies” TV series. Something for idiots to get mad about(while the news throws red meat at them), and for football players to protest… what exactly?
If you aren’t protesting with a specific goal in mind (an actual concrete outcome) it’s pretty pointless IMO.

Do they not see the birds controlled in the atmosphere of the sky? none holds them up except Allah. Indeed in that are signs for a people who believe. – Quran (16:79)

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YodaFan67 said:

If you aren’t protesting with a specific goal in mind (an actual concrete outcome) it’s pretty pointless IMO.

Their goal is to evoke a culture change in the attitudes police officers have toward minorities (particularly blacks).

It would not have worked were it just Colin Kaepernick, but enough people are involved now that it might actually provoke discussion about the actual topic at hand instead of the act itself.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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Calling attention to police brutality (including premeditated murder) is pointless? Police brutality is a dumb controversy?

I’ll bet black people would love to live in your world.

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TV’s Frink said:

Calling attention to police brutality (including premeditated murder) is pointless? Police brutality is a dumb controversy?

I’ll bet black people would love to live in your world.

I think he’s trying to say there’s a difference between complaining about something and trying to affect change to fix it. And that to simply complain about something without an idea of how to specifically make a positive impact is useless.

In the grand scheme of the culture, I’m not sure the group protesting has to have the solution so long as they can get society at large to develop one. That is to say, a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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Yeah, this protest has done nothing. It hasn’t gotten anyone talking about police brutality at all.

The Person in Question

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My point is, protesting is pointless unless there is a specific policy you want to enact/get rid of.
In this case, how about drug policy, or anti-fourth amendment search policies? Or maybe security cams on cops?

My point is, You may as well protest “evil”, so we can have a “nation discussion” about “evil”.

Do they not see the birds controlled in the atmosphere of the sky? none holds them up except Allah. Indeed in that are signs for a people who believe. – Quran (16:79)

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chyron8472 said:

And that to simply complain about something without an idea of how to specifically make a positive impact is useless.

If no one is talking about the problem, no one will even think a solution is needed.

Are protesters required to hold up signs with all the solutions to what they are protesting?

Raising awareness of a problem to create change is the point of protest. It’s not useless. Maybe nothing changes tomorrow, but protests are the early beginning of the solution, rather than the solution.

Anyway, the solution is “stop being racist.”

JEDIT: I see you sort of addressed this in your second paragraph.

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YodaFan67 said:

My point is, protesting is pointless unless there is a specific policy you want to enact/get rid of.
In this case, how about drug policy, or anti-fourth amendment search policies? Or maybe security cams on cops?

My point is, You may as well protest “evil”, so we can have a “nation discussion” about “evil”.

Beating up and killing black people because they are black (institutional racism) is a specific policy they want to get rid of. The solution is “stop beating us up and killing us.”

This is much more specific than “evil.” I’m not sure what your problem is here anyway. Are you annoyed that you can’t watch football without thinking about other people’s problems or something?

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moviefreakedmind said:

Yeah, this protest has done nothing. It hasn’t gotten anyone talking about police brutality at all.

That’s completely false.

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TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Yeah, this protest has done nothing. It hasn’t gotten anyone talking about police brutality at all.

That’s completely false.

Not any more than they were before. I’m a firm believer in protesting out in the streets. Picket a police station or something along with taking a knee at the game. Doing just the latter and nothing else is bland and uninteresting in my book.

The Person in Question

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TV’s Frink said:

YodaFan67 said:

My point is, protesting is pointless unless there is a specific policy you want to enact/get rid of.
In this case, how about drug policy, or anti-fourth amendment search policies? Or maybe security cams on cops?

My point is, You may as well protest “evil”, so we can have a “nation discussion” about “evil”.

Beating up and killing black people because they are black (institutional racism) is a specific policy they want to get rid of. The solution is “stop beating us up and killing us.”

Institutional racism is not a political policy. “Stop beating us up and killing us” is vague and does not directly translate to specific political policy or legal changes (as opposed to “Under [these] specific circumstances must they stop beating us up.”) . If the community wants police institutional behavior to change, there must be specific regulation and a means to enforce it.

I agree that without a solution, complaining is ultimately meaningless; but the very fact that people are talking about it (I assume we’re not the only ones in the country who are), that suggests that a solution can actually be formulated.

In other words, acceptance is the first step on the road to recovery. But it is only one step of many required.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Yeah, this protest has done nothing. It hasn’t gotten anyone talking about police brutality at all.

That’s completely false.

Not any more than they were before. I’m a firm believer in protesting out in the streets. Picket a police station or something along with taking a knee at the game. Doing just the latter and nothing else is bland and uninteresting in my book.

Except the former was already done, and it got told that the protesters were too disruptive and needed to stop.

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moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Yeah, this protest has done nothing. It hasn’t gotten anyone talking about police brutality at all.

That’s completely false.

Not any more than they were before.

Apparently you haven’t been reading this thread…or Twitter…or Facebook…or political articles…or watched cable news…or listened to sports radio…

I could go on and on. Perhaps in your experience nothing has changed, but since Friday, things outside your experience have changed quite a bit.

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It’s dead, Jim.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/senate-gop-effort-to-unwind-the-affordable-care-act-faces-critical-test-tuesday/2017/09/26/097b2dc2-a25f-11e7-b14f-f41773cd5a14_story.html?utm_term=.fbcbb5d5dec6

Senate Republicans decided Tuesday not to hold a vote on unwinding the Affordable Care Act, effectively preserving the landmark 2010 law for the foreseeable future.

In deciding not to take up the latest proposal, authored by Sens. Lindsey O. Graham (S.C.) and Bill Cassidy (La.), their fellow Republicans are abandoning the policy goal that has animated their party for more than seven years.

Top Republicans, however, also indicated they have little interest in shoring up the existing insurance market operating under the 2010 law. Instead, they suggested, the ongoing instability would backfire on Democrats and build momentum for the ACA’s eventual repeal.

“I personally think it’s time for the American people to see what the Democrats have done to them on health care,” said Senate Finance Committee Chairman Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah). “They’re going to find they can’t pay for it, they’re going to find that it doesn’t work. . . . Now that will make it tough on everybody. Maybe that’s what it take to wise people up.”

Wednesday is the deadline for insurers to sign contracts with the federal government so that they can sell health plans on the ACA marketplaces for 2018. Many companies are hiking these rates by double digits, but they have suggested they would curb such increases if they had assurances that the federal government would provide cost-sharing reduction payments for all of next year.

At the moment, the Trump administration is only covering cost-sharing payments on a month-to-month basis; a White House official confirmed Tuesday that it had made a payment for September. Asked what the president intended to continue making payments going forward, the aide said officials have not yet decided what to do.

Republicans accepted the reality on Monday evening that the push had sputtered out after Sen. Susan Collins (Maine) joined two of her fellow Republicans in formal opposition, but made their final decision during their weekly policy lunch, according to Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.).

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yhwx said:

It’s dead, Jim.

Or…IS IT!!!

^JEDIT: Stupid markdown syntax.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/25/obamacare-repeal-republicans-budget-243125

The supposedly hard deadline at the end of the month to repeal Obamacare might not be so hard after all.

With their latest attempt to dismantle the health law on track to fail this week, GOP senators are already raising the prospect of going after it again with the same powerful tools that currently let them pass legislation with just 50 votes.

There is nothing to suggest Obamacare repeal would get any easier in the coming months and doing so may significantly hobble the Republican majority’s other chief legislative priority: tax reform. But facing a floundering repeal push, wrath from the base and a frustrated President Donald Trump, Republicans may have no other choice but to keep pushing to uproot the law.

“We’ve got to do both,” Senate Finance Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) said of tackling both Obamacare repeal and tax reform next year. "They’re complicated by necessity. So I don’t think that takes away the complications. But I think we’re supposed to be able to handle complications.”

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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-i-felt-ashamed-after-disgraceful-nfl-protests-n804901

President Donald Trump said Tuesday he felt “ashamed” by “disgraceful” comments he made about women and accused himself of disrespecting women who live in the United States.

“I was ashamed of what I said and also what I probably did,” Trump said during a joint press conference with the Spanish prime minister in the White House Rose Garden, referring to the numerous times he bragged about grabbing women’s pussies.

“I don’t think I should disrespect our women” Trump said. “Many women have been assaulted” he added, referring to women he personally assaulted as well as others he may not have.

I might have changed a word or two.

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TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Yeah, this protest has done nothing. It hasn’t gotten anyone talking about police brutality at all.

That’s completely false.

Not any more than they were before.

Apparently you haven’t been reading this thread…or Twitter…or Facebook…or political articles…or watched cable news…or listened to sports radio…

I could go on and on. Perhaps in your experience nothing has changed, but since Friday, things outside your experience have changed quite a bit.

They’re talking about the anthem a lot. Honestly, my irritation comes from the fact that their “protest” is even more boring than the sport they’re playing.

The Person in Question

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moviefreakedmind said:

Honestly, my irritation comes from the fact that their “protest” is even more boring than the sport they’re playing.

Lol, really? I mean I’m not sure if I’ve yet seen a clearer example of white privilege.

I guess we’ll just have to disagree on how much “they” are talking about the actual reason for the protest, because I’m seeing it discussed plenty.

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TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Honestly, my irritation comes from the fact that their “protest” is even more boring than the sport they’re playing.

Lol, really? I mean I’m not sure if I’ve yet seen a clearer example of white privilege.

What? It’s a very cool protest.

The Person in Question

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Ok now I’m confused. I thought you were saying you were annoyed by the protest and/or that everyone was talking about it.