4K restoration on Star Wars — Page 137

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

nickyd47 said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

They said there’ll be multiple surprises.

Three 4k SE discs.

The 1997,2004 and 2011 cut. What a release that would be.

I think he meant Star Wars, Empire and Jedi.

I did, but I was joking, so it doesn’t really matter.

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

nickyd47 said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

They said there’ll be multiple surprises.

Three 4k SE discs.

The 1997,2004 and 2011 cut. What a release that would be.

I think he meant Star Wars, Empire and Jedi. And your scenario would never happen. Unless there is an OUT, a multi-version release is inconceivable. Even if we get the OUT, having multiple SE cuts seems unlikely.

I’ve said many times that I would love a three-disc-per-movie release with unaltered, '97, and the new 4k SE (wouldn’t really care if the '04 and '11 versions weren’t included). It would especially make for an interesting collection if, for example, the cgi were given a complete overhaul in the newest version, or if that crazy rumor about Han shooting first again turned out to be true.

But yeah, I’d be equally unsurprised if the '97 version became lost to history just like the theatrical cuts of Titanic and TPM.

nickyd47 said:

TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

They said there’ll be multiple surprises.

Three 4k SE discs.

The 1997,2004 and 2011 cut. What a release that would be.

Barney Gumble: I like it!

By the way, found a listing that’s 110% worse than those VHS ones…
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Star-Wars-Despecialized-Trilogy-3-Disc-Blu-Ray-Set-/182472276426?hash=item2a7c31f9ca:g:6dsAAOSwa~BYWjo2

Charging $40 for something the creator distributes for free, eh?

I hear people who do that have their gonads chewed by piranhas for forty years once they die and go to Hell.

I personally don’t care any more about an official release of the unaltered version.

I mean, we all are here to see what very very talented people can do to restore this. This case never happened to any other film ever released, Star Wars is the reason for this board, because WE love Star Wars. I met very great people here, like Harmy, Laserschwert, Poita, TV Frink 😃 , Williarob and so many other. And all of this people having one goal with different ways to accomplish this. I love this community here and this never happened if Lucas released an OOT in the past. I like the feeling that fans made this reconstruction, when I watch a reconstruction. And damn, most people wouldn’t notice that this is fan work.

Cheers.

moviefreakedmind said:

But you don’t know anything. I don’t say that to be rude, I don’t know anything about Verta’s meeting either, but for all anyone knows a ton of awesome stuff came of his meeting.

And for all we know, a ton of Santa’s elves are working on restoring the OOT too by the way.

Since no OOT has been released, and year after year for 20 years we have had nothing but the SE and antiquated garbage LD transfers, the burden of proof lies on the side of those claiming the OOT is just around the corner, not the other way around.

If you guys wanna wait until celebration, then whatever. But if the tune doesn’t change after that, then there is going to be a whole lot of hypocrisy on this board. George’s doors were burning down after a year. Now a generation later and it’s “Disney is going to release the OOT next year”…and then “Disney is going to release the OOT leading up to TFA”…and now “Disney is going to release the OOT for the 40th anniversary”. We know some of the posters are just waiting to move onto the “Disney is going to release the OOT after 2020” nonsense.

They aren’t going to do ****. They are going to continue making **** rip-off movies with ridiculous plotholes, bad acting and directing, scripts written by junior high students, and raking in billions of dollars thanks to brain dead franchise fans.

Also, Fox isn’t and was never going to pay for a restoration of Lucasfilm’s property just to distribute it on home media.

Says who? That is what happens with all film restorations. Every single one. They are old movies. They get released on home video. They are 30 years old. 70 years old. Whatever. They aren’t getting released theatrically to rake in hundreds of millions of dollars. They are old movies. And yet they get restored all the time.

There is some evidence. It might not be concrete, but it’s still evidence. For example, there’s credible word that Disney/Lucasfilm requested a scan of the Library of Congress’s film print of Star Wars.

It’s just a rumor, and even if that’s true, how does that possibly equate to them releasing the OOT this year? How many steps do you have to jump to reach that conclusion?

There are also at least three different people that I’ve interacted with online that claim it’s happening this year; they may all be wrong, that’s completely possible, but it’s still evidence, even if it’s hearsay.

Yeah well, my aunt and uncle, this kid around the block, and that dirty guy with a beard who lives in a van down by the river all told me that too. I guess we can count that as a guarantee.

emanswfan said:

While the exact amount of detail varies between prints and negatives, any piece of film has a limited amount of detail. However the resolution is limited. So you can get a clearer and smoother image as you go up, even if no new detail is revealed.

And wider color gamut and color depth isn’t the main thing about HDR. Essentially you can go deeper into the blacks before clipping (though your room has to be ludicrously dark to most of the advantages), and more importantly vastly higher into whites before clipping, or I should more accurately just say highlights and shadows. The issue with current display standards is that you lose color vibrancy as you go dark or as you go bright. Max brightness can only be white on traditional displays. The idea is to have such values actually still retain color saturation, allowing for color decisions previously not possible. This could be as simple as being able to have the blue sky of the dat actually look bright, more similar to what you’d see with your eye.

Now the dynamic range of your format does affect the amount of detail you can show off as you can’t recover clipped values in a shot, but the details that do exist can be spread across the whole HDR range. Many modern cinema cameras can now have that level of detail to adapt wonderfully to HDR as recording in flat LOG type formats allow for an incredible amount of light information to be compressed into the footage.

Many top notch 35mm film scans currently in existence, I could imagine have plenty enough detail to support an HDR grade.

A well timed and refined HDR grade of these films from a new 4K+ scan of the negatives has the potential to be quite immersive.

Film scans can often capture the full dynamic range (aprox 13 stops) of the film now, though standard displays lack the ability to display all that range at once with about 5 stops range.

Yeah, deeper shadows and brighter highlights = HDR + wider Color Gammut this is really going to be an improvement.

I think where all this stuff get’s a bit confused is that it is essentially great to SCAN a film source in 4K (capturing detail and high exposure to capture more color) but unless you have a massive screen there is not much benefit to displaying it in 4K.

HD HDR (1080p) will be great for home viewing if you you have a 65" screen in your living room get a 4k 65" screen ok that makes sense you will get some benefit from that having it being able to display 4K.

Resolution although it allows more detail you won’t notice the extra detail unless you are very close to the screen.

There are 4k resolution phones being released now and to get the benefit of that you would have to strap the phone on to your eyes practically. It’s not any thing worth having… perhaps if you want to walk around with a phone strapped to your face / VR or AR ok you might get a small benefit.

Even if you have a 4k 65" screen you will still need to be pretty close to notice the extra detail. But being a larger display it will be noticeable.

UHD is ok but it is being forced out too early. Wait for HDR which will be the big noticeable improvement. Resolution only really works on distance from the display. HDR is a different thing it’s actually something that will make a very noticeable difference. HDR will not improve you old DVD’s or Blu-rays content will need to be specifically prepared to enjoy HDR also bear that in mind.

I would not bother getting a full 4k resolution display I would actually say anything up to 46" your best bet will be UHD HDR or HD HDR

+50" screen I would say 4k starts to become viable as an option but more towards 60"+ the benefit is much more 80"+ screen all in no doubt for 4K.

I think one of the barriers to HDR rolling out on mass though is the ability to revert the display to being a normal color range and normal brightness contrast range so you can enjoy your old content that was not prepared for HDR specifically. It’s being able to turn off HDR when you don’t have HDR pumping in to it.

Alderaan said:

moviefreakedmind said:

But you don’t know anything. I don’t say that to be rude, I don’t know anything about Verta’s meeting either, but for all anyone knows a ton of awesome stuff came of his meeting.

And for all we know, a ton of Santa’s elves are working on restoring the OOT too by the way.

Since no OOT has been released, and year after year for 20 years we have had nothing but the SE and antiquated garbage LD transfers, the burden of proof lies on the side of those claiming the OOT is just around the corner, not the other way around.

If you guys wanna wait until celebration, then whatever. But if the tune doesn’t change after that, then there is going to be a whole lot of hypocrisy on this board. George’s doors were burning down after a year. Now a generation later and it’s “Disney is going to release the OOT next year”…and then “Disney is going to release the OOT leading up to TFA”…and now “Disney is going to release the OOT for the 40th anniversary”. We know some of the posters are just waiting to move onto the “Disney is going to release the OOT after 2020” nonsense.

They aren’t going to do ****. They are going to continue making **** rip-off movies with ridiculous plotholes, bad acting and directing, scripts written by junior high students, and raking in billions of dollars thanks to brain dead franchise fans.

Also, Fox isn’t and was never going to pay for a restoration of Lucasfilm’s property just to distribute it on home media.

Says who? That is what happens with all film restorations. Every single one. They are old movies. They get released on home video. They are 30 years old. 70 years old. Whatever. They aren’t getting released theatrically to rake in hundreds of millions of dollars. They are old movies. And yet they get restored all the time.

There is some evidence. It might not be concrete, but it’s still evidence. For example, there’s credible word that Disney/Lucasfilm requested a scan of the Library of Congress’s film print of Star Wars.

It’s just a rumor, and even if that’s true, how does that possibly equate to them releasing the OOT this year? How many steps do you have to jump to reach that conclusion?

There are also at least three different people that I’ve interacted with online that claim it’s happening this year; they may all be wrong, that’s completely possible, but it’s still evidence, even if it’s hearsay.

Yeah well, my aunt and uncle, this kid around the block, and that dirty guy with a beard who lives in a van down by the river all told me that too. I guess we can count that as a guarantee.

Well, the OOT WAS released over a decade ago. Granted it looked like ass, but still.

I’m betting on Celebration 2017, because it’s fun to speculate!

You don’t know that they “Aren’t going to do ****” Just like how I don’t know whether or not the OOT is getting the Blu-Ray treatment this year, or at all!

Say what you will in regards to the new films, but they aren’t as bad as the prequels, surley! (Well, the ones that we’ve seen at least)

Ronster said:

emanswfan said:

While the exact amount of detail varies between prints and negatives, any piece of film has a limited amount of detail. However the resolution is limited. So you can get a clearer and smoother image as you go up, even if no new detail is revealed.

And wider color gamut and color depth isn’t the main thing about HDR. Essentially you can go deeper into the blacks before clipping (though your room has to be ludicrously dark to most of the advantages), and more importantly vastly higher into whites before clipping, or I should more accurately just say highlights and shadows. The issue with current display standards is that you lose color vibrancy as you go dark or as you go bright. Max brightness can only be white on traditional displays. The idea is to have such values actually still retain color saturation, allowing for color decisions previously not possible. This could be as simple as being able to have the blue sky of the dat actually look bright, more similar to what you’d see with your eye.

Now the dynamic range of your format does affect the amount of detail you can show off as you can’t recover clipped values in a shot, but the details that do exist can be spread across the whole HDR range. Many modern cinema cameras can now have that level of detail to adapt wonderfully to HDR as recording in flat LOG type formats allow for an incredible amount of light information to be compressed into the footage.

Many top notch 35mm film scans currently in existence, I could imagine have plenty enough detail to support an HDR grade.

A well timed and refined HDR grade of these films from a new 4K+ scan of the negatives has the potential to be quite immersive.

Film scans can often capture the full dynamic range (aprox 13 stops) of the film now, though standard displays lack the ability to display all that range at once with about 5 stops range.

Yeah, deeper shadows and brighter highlights = HDR + wider Color Gammut this is really going to be an improvement.

I think where all this stuff get’s a bit confused is that it is essentially great to SCAN a film source in 4K (capturing detail and high exposure to capture more color) but unless you have a massive screen there is not much benefit to displaying it in 4K.

HD HDR (1080p) will be great for home viewing if you you have a 65" screen in your living room get a 4k 65" screen ok that makes sense you will get some benefit from that having it being able to display 4K.

Resolution although it allows more detail you won’t notice the extra detail unless you are very close to the screen.

There are 4k resolution phones being released now and to get the benefit of that you would have to strap the phone on to your eyes practically. It’s not any thing worth having… perhaps if you want to walk around with a phone strapped to your face / VR or AR ok you might get a small benefit.

Even if you have a 4k 65" screen you will still need to be pretty close to notice the extra detail. But being a larger display it will be noticeable.

UHD is ok but it is being forced out too early. Wait for HDR which will be the big noticeable improvement. Resolution only really works on distance from the display. HDR is a different thing it’s actually something that will make a very noticeable difference. HDR will not improve you old DVD’s or Blu-rays content will need to be specifically prepared to enjoy HDR also bear that in mind.

I would not bother getting a full 4k resolution display I would actually say anything up to 46" your best bet will be UHD HDR or HD HDR

+50" screen I would say 4k starts to become viable as an option but more towards 60"+ the benefit is much more 80"+ screen all in no doubt for 4K.

I think one of the barriers to HDR rolling out on mass though is the ability to revert the display to being a normal color range and normal brightness contrast range so you can enjoy your old content that was not prepared for HDR specifically. It’s being able to turn off HDR when you don’t have HDR pumping in to it.

I bought a 4K TV before HDR became more affordable and wide spread. Basically, I did the modern equivalent of buying a 1080i TV.
Still a nice looking TV though.

you have not done anything wrong but video will definitely be produced only in 10 bit color depth from now on whilst previously a lot of content was produced in 8 bit color depth. This produced Color Banding and solid gradients sometimes in some video sources.

8 bit depth was a mistake really.

To process 10 bit color depth and a high contrast you need to have a display that can handle it. If you want to get a New TV only get one that is labelled “ULtra HD premium” anything else is not of any Standard of HDR. A TV can exceed the standard also of Ultra HD premium.

I would not bother getting a 12 bit color depth display though either. The LCD panel needs to be 10 bit native not 8 bit dithered to be proper HDR.

There is very little demand for 4K video. there is a demand for an improved image and more detail better contrast more color range. Nobody want’s to stream 4k video to everyone it stupid and unrealistic and to be able to do that it’s very demanding.

all of these improvements that can be done without the massive burden of 4k for which you need a massive screen to get the benefit from anyway also and which most people don’t have the space for either. And the infrastructure for the needed bandwidth is not there either to do it and provide the service for everyone. It’s also a stretch for broadcast nobody is going to be able to get 4k down a normal aerial.

There is however everything right with scanning old films in 4k and with a higher exposure. And then displaying it on a TV with HDR at whatever resolution is needed for the size of your room / screen.

I would suggest this is the way forward for most people. Average everyday people that is.

http://www.techradar.com/news/sony-is-bringing-hdr-to-its-1080p-tvs-but-only-ps4-owners-will-benefit

TR2N said:

I personally don’t care any more about an official release of the unaltered version.

I mean, we all are here to see what very very talented people can do to restore this. This case never happened to any other film ever released, Star Wars is the reason for this board, because WE love Star Wars. I met very great people here, like Harmy, Laserschwert, Poita, TV Frink 😃 , Williarob and so many other. And all of this people having one goal with different ways to accomplish this.

One of those names doesn’t belong with the others!

SilverWook said:

Alderaan said:

moviefreakedmind said:

But you don’t know anything. I don’t say that to be rude, I don’t know anything about Verta’s meeting either, but for all anyone knows a ton of awesome stuff came of his meeting.

And for all we know, a ton of Santa’s elves are working on restoring the OOT too by the way.

Since no OOT has been released, and year after year for 20 years we have had nothing but the SE and antiquated garbage LD transfers, the burden of proof lies on the side of those claiming the OOT is just around the corner, not the other way around.

If you guys wanna wait until celebration, then whatever. But if the tune doesn’t change after that, then there is going to be a whole lot of hypocrisy on this board. George’s doors were burning down after a year. Now a generation later and it’s “Disney is going to release the OOT next year”…and then “Disney is going to release the OOT leading up to TFA”…and now “Disney is going to release the OOT for the 40th anniversary”. We know some of the posters are just waiting to move onto the “Disney is going to release the OOT after 2020” nonsense.

They aren’t going to do ****. They are going to continue making **** rip-off movies with ridiculous plotholes, bad acting and directing, scripts written by junior high students, and raking in billions of dollars thanks to brain dead franchise fans.

Also, Fox isn’t and was never going to pay for a restoration of Lucasfilm’s property just to distribute it on home media.

Says who? That is what happens with all film restorations. Every single one. They are old movies. They get released on home video. They are 30 years old. 70 years old. Whatever. They aren’t getting released theatrically to rake in hundreds of millions of dollars. They are old movies. And yet they get restored all the time.

There is some evidence. It might not be concrete, but it’s still evidence. For example, there’s credible word that Disney/Lucasfilm requested a scan of the Library of Congress’s film print of Star Wars.

It’s just a rumor, and even if that’s true, how does that possibly equate to them releasing the OOT this year? How many steps do you have to jump to reach that conclusion?

There are also at least three different people that I’ve interacted with online that claim it’s happening this year; they may all be wrong, that’s completely possible, but it’s still evidence, even if it’s hearsay.

Yeah well, my aunt and uncle, this kid around the block, and that dirty guy with a beard who lives in a van down by the river all told me that too. I guess we can count that as a guarantee.

You toss around an awful lot of assumptions and accusations of hypocrisy around here. If you think this forum is going to remain quiet, or shrug it off if there’s no announcement at Celebration, I have some Florida swampland you might be interested in.

And I really do own swampland in Florida. 😉

Was it previously owned by Richard Dawson???

What would we all do if they actually release the damn OOT and it’s good?

Still moan about finer details I suppose.

Ronster said:

you have not done anything wrong but video will definitely be produced only in 10 bit color depth from now on whilst previously a lot of content was produced in 8 bit color depth. This produced Color Banding and solid gradients sometimes in some video sources.

8 bit depth was a mistake really.

To process 10 bit color depth and a high contrast you need to have a display that can handle it. If you want to get a New TV only get one that is labelled “ULtra HD premium” anything else is not of any Standard of HDR. A TV can exceed the standard also of Ultra HD premium.

I would not bother getting a 12 bit color depth display though either. The LCD panel needs to be 10 bit native not 8 bit dithered to be proper HDR.

There is very little demand for 4K video. there is a demand for an improved image and more detail better contrast more color range. Nobody want’s to stream 4k video to everyone it stupid and unrealistic and to be able to do that it’s very demanding.

all of these improvements that can be done without the massive burden of 4k for which you need a massive screen to get the benefit from anyway also and which most people don’t have the space for either. And the infrastructure for the needed bandwidth is not there either to do it and provide the service for everyone. It’s also a stretch for broadcast nobody is going to be able to get 4k down a normal aerial.

There is however everything right with scanning old films in 4k and with a higher exposure. And then displaying it on a TV with HDR at whatever resolution is needed for the size of your room / screen.

I would suggest this is the way forward for most people. Average everyday people that is.

http://www.techradar.com/news/sony-is-bringing-hdr-to-its-1080p-tvs-but-only-ps4-owners-will-benefit

I didn’t know anyone was making regular 1080p tvs with hdr. In fact, I thought the tv manufacturers had ceased making 1080p panels altogether. Very interesting.

By the way, 1080p hdr broadcasts will apparently become more of a thing in the near future according to an article I saw the other day. Apparently the industry determined that signals could be bumped up to 1080p and hdr using existing hardware whereas a complete overhaul would be necessary just to get 4k (even without hdr).

SwissArmyTin said:

Fang Zei said:

I’ve said many times that I would love a three-disc-per-movie release with unaltered, '97, and the new 4k SE (wouldn’t really care if the '04 and '11 versions weren’t included).

They could probably fit all the SEs versions (97, 04, 11) of a single film on a single disc w/seamless branching. They could also probably rope in the unaltered version as well, but then you’d be playing with fire in terms of color accuracy. It worked with Blade Runner (I think disc 1 of the 5-disc set contained the theatrical, international cut, and 1st director’s cut. I think.)

You read my mind! I was going to say all of this, but didn’t.

They could easily branch those three versions onto the same disc. I would want them to go with the '97 color timing, though. The color-timing of the lowry master isn’t worth preserving to me. A 4k scan of the '97 interpositive, given the proper restoration and mastering, would probably produce better results than the 2k scan / 1080p master of the o-neg did in 2004.

But yes, the actual content changes (landspeeder and Jabba re-do and aurebesh tractor beam signage in '04, blinking wicket and Vader Noooo in '11, etc) could probably be branched in without any problem since they’re so few and far between.

I doubt we’ll even get any of those three versions, though. Not even the '97. It will probably just be this new 4k version which, for all we know, might simply be the 2011 version in terms of content.

It was the middle of the three actual blu-rays on the five disc Blade Runner set that you’re thinking of. The second and fourth discs were just regular dvds with the Dangerous Days documentary and bonus features, respectively.

Fang Zei said:

Ronster said:

you have not done anything wrong but video will definitely be produced only in 10 bit color depth from now on whilst previously a lot of content was produced in 8 bit color depth. This produced Color Banding and solid gradients sometimes in some video sources.

8 bit depth was a mistake really.

To process 10 bit color depth and a high contrast you need to have a display that can handle it. If you want to get a New TV only get one that is labelled “ULtra HD premium” anything else is not of any Standard of HDR. A TV can exceed the standard also of Ultra HD premium.

I would not bother getting a 12 bit color depth display though either. The LCD panel needs to be 10 bit native not 8 bit dithered to be proper HDR.

There is very little demand for 4K video. there is a demand for an improved image and more detail better contrast more color range. Nobody want’s to stream 4k video to everyone it stupid and unrealistic and to be able to do that it’s very demanding.

all of these improvements that can be done without the massive burden of 4k for which you need a massive screen to get the benefit from anyway also and which most people don’t have the space for either. And the infrastructure for the needed bandwidth is not there either to do it and provide the service for everyone. It’s also a stretch for broadcast nobody is going to be able to get 4k down a normal aerial.

There is however everything right with scanning old films in 4k and with a higher exposure. And then displaying it on a TV with HDR at whatever resolution is needed for the size of your room / screen.

I would suggest this is the way forward for most people. Average everyday people that is.

http://www.techradar.com/news/sony-is-bringing-hdr-to-its-1080p-tvs-but-only-ps4-owners-will-benefit

I didn’t know anyone was making regular 1080p tvs with hdr. In fact, I thought the tv manufacturers had ceased making 1080p panels altogether. Very interesting.

By the way, 1080p hdr broadcasts will apparently become more of a thing in the near future according to an article I saw the other day. Apparently the industry determined that signals could be bumped up to 1080p and hdr using existing hardware whereas a complete overhaul would be necessary just to get 4k (even without hdr).

This is exactly the case and that although 4k is no doubt great if you have a very large TV there is really no need for me to buy a 4k TV as I currently have a measly 23" screen actually it’s a nice LCD with a good contrast ratio and It’s a nice picture.

But I will never buy a 4K TV for where I live because I simply do not have the space and they are all 40"+. I would invest in a Ultra HD player buy discs and display them in 1080p or 1080i and enjoy HDR yes please.

I think there really is no where for 4k to run at this point apart from yeah big telly UHD with HDR small Telly HD with HDR.

UHD Blu ray player yeah it works with both.

New Star Wars release 4k HDR works with both UHD telly and HD HDR telly

But how much HDR? Full HDR has specs and you also have Dolby Vision which exceeds that HDR10 is current spec Dolby vision sounds much much better but it’s being made too elite.

Dolby Vision need to get in with a half way house measure as their method honestly sounds brilliant and it’s a really cool idea. Dolby Vision on 12bit color depth should adopt a 10bit color depth model and stop being so elite. They need to get their foot in the door and stop being stubborn.

HDR is the new tech and it will roll out with very little change to existing broadcast technology the oweness will be on the owner for the telly the provider for the content.

I wonder if they will really do it. I mean the fan edits are constantly spreading, someone must be a little concerned. Or at least money hungry enough to do this.

I just saw this today https://youtu.be/wesnVOgEYNQ

A few seconds in I realised it was actually a Harmy video. (feel free to repost if I missed a general SWDE ‘sightings’ type of thread) It’s still gaining popularity beyond the Outer Rim of the internet.