DominicCobb said:
Warbler said:
DominicCobb said:
Warbler said:
TV’s Frink said:
I’m sure glad Trump is deporting all the violent criminals like this one, who put everyone’s life at risk.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/02/09/for-decades-immigration-authorities-gave-this-mother-a-pass-wednesday-when-she-checked-in-with-them-they-seized-her/?utm_term=.f82e59eeeeff
You know, it is not that I don’t want to show mercy and understanding and concern especially for her kids, but she was technically in the country illegally, yes? I don’t know what should be done in cases like this, I don’t want her split up from her kids. But I don’t think the fact that she was here illegally should just be forgotten. I think this is part of problem we have we when discuss this with the more conservative minded. It is like we want to just forget that she technically broke the law when she came into this country. Yes, she was not putting anyone life at risk, and she was peaceful. That should be fairly considered. I just don’t think the bit about her technically being here illegally should be forgotten though. (This should not be read to mean I think she should have been deported. I don’t know what should be done with cases like her’s and many others)
The solution is simple: a path to citizenship.
Perhaps. I am certainly open to that.
Deportation is just an absolute cruelty, there’s no other way around it.
It is really? When she is here illegally and the law says it is perfectly legal to deport here?
It is not an absolute cruelty in every case. But in this, and many others, it is. If you don’t think deporting a loving mother from her children is cruel, I don’t know how to explain it.
You must have missed where I agreed with Frink that it was cruel. I don’t not want to split a mother from her children.
The issue is (as always with everything) people make blanket statements and judgements with no regard for all the nuanced differences.
I am trying my best not to do that. Like I said, I don’t want her deported. I just don’t want her part in creating this situation to be forgotten/glossed over.
Deportation might work for a real criminal, but if your only crime is seeking a better life for yourself, I think we need to reconsider if tearing apart a family for that is really the best solution.
How she got in shouldn’t matter -
I disagree. I think it does matter that she came here illegally.
In the scheme of things it really shouldn’t. She sought the American dream of a greater life. She did it outside the parameters of the law,
She broke the law. btw, what about all the people who seek the American dream but are doing it the hard way, the legal way? What do we say to them? “Stop filling out paperwork, cutting red tape, waiting and waiting, etc . . . ! Don’t worry about trying to become a citizen or a legal immigrant, The hell with trying to get a visa! That sh** doesn’t matter! Just walk across the border!”?
but is that really so terrible a crime to complete dismiss her simple because of the current laws? Our laws are not infallible, and some are far worse than others, and just because you break them doesn’t make you a terrible person undeserving of a chance.
I didn’t say it makes her a terrible person or undeserving of a change. Yes, are laws are not perfect, but nonetheless we a society ruled by law. This is not “lets do whatever we want” Laws are there for a reason. If we think some law is bad or too strict or something like that, the thing to do is to change the law, not just ignore it.
the laws here that don’t have statutes of limitations are heinous crimes and there isn’t anything heinous about what she did.
This isn’t about a statute of limitations. Deportation is not that same as arresting someone and charging them with a crime. Just because someone that illegally crossed the border, somehow managed to evade deportation for certain amount of time does not change that person’s status from being here illegally to being here legally. It doesn’t make said person a legal immigrant, it doesn’t make them a citizen, you don’t get visa just for evading deportation for a certain amount of time. Let me put it another way: lets say someone steals something from your house. You might be able to argue that after a certain period of time, that person should be charged for the theft. But should that mean that what the person stole now legally belongs to him/her?
I am aware that is not as it is. I mean to say that is not as it should be. The current mentality is that every day an “alien” spends in this country, they are breaking the law. But I tend to see their infraction as more of a single occurrence.
That maybe how you see but that is not the way the law sees it if I am not mistaken. If a person crosses into the country illegally, just on what grounds do you change that status to legal? They are not citizens nor legal immigrants and they don’t have visas.
Your analogy to theft is exactly the issue when it comes to the perception of these people. They are not stealing our country from us by being here, despite what many think.
I didn’t mean they were stealing the country. Maybe you missed the point of my analogy.
Their coming here is not an invasion. Just because they don’t have citizenship under the letter of the law of our constructed nation does not prevent them from being citizens of the land they now call home.
um, coming here illegally and evading deportation for certain amount time does not automatically make them citizens.
Our nation is built on immigrants. People say that all the time but they rarely stop to think of what it means. Yes, all those who immigrated to Ellis Island did it ‘legally.’ But for over a hundred years people we’re immigrating to America before there even were these United States. I have ancestors who came here in the 17th century. Their journey was a long one and a hard one. But so are the journeys of Mexican immigrants now. And just like them, my ancestors didn’t come here ‘legally’ because that didn’t mean anything at the time -
but it mean something now because we are nation. A nation a laws.
and that’s not because it was unclaimed land because there were people living here.
Yes, but what happened pre-1776 doesn’t change what the law is today. I will agree when people first started coming here from Europe we should have respected the rights and wishes of the Native Americans more. The fact that we didn’t, doesn’t negate the laws we in regards to immigration or our right to enforce them.
My point is, we are a country that has always accepted everyone that wanted to live here - that is what is most important, not their means of getting here. That’s not to say we should completely ignore it if they did it ‘illegally,’ but we should be willing to forgive them for their methods and not stigmatize them for it. Rather we should be embracing them, as this land has always done.
They came here illegally and are here illegally and they did this of their own accord. Yes we accepted everyone that wanted to life here, when they went about it the legal way. I don’t recall America having a history of ignoring its own immigration laws. I am all for being merciful and forgiving and finding ways to avoid deportation. But as for stigmatizing, they should have thought of that before breaking the law. Our immigration laws exist for a reason.
If you don’t like our immigration policies, fight to change them. I might even side with you. But don’t just ignore them, they were made for a reason.
I want to be merciful and forgiving, but does that mean we should just open the borders, screw our immigration laws and make it a free for all?
