What if TFA is awful? — Page 5

I think TFA WILL be awful.  I’m not hoping for it to be awful, but I think it will be.

Although J.J. Abrams has achieved mainstream success,  I have never truly gotten “on board” with his style of filmmaking.  And it’s not that his movies are completely “awful” any sense.  It’s just that  every time I’ve left out of the theater after seeing one of his movies I have a gnawing, hungry, not-quite-satisfied feeling—similar to the feeling one has after eating at McDonald’s.  Not terrible, but not quite satisfying.  In other words, totally un-OOT-like.

This is a vague feeling and it is hard to explain, but there are micro-moments in Abrams’s various  films where I get sucked straight out of the movie, out of the fantasy--and into a realm where “this doesn’t quite make sense.” Or, “that seems odd why that character would do [or say] that.” 

There are several of these “micro-moments” from J.J.’s films that I could get into (but won’t).  There is, though, one in the latest behind-the-scenes TFA footage (presumably from San Diego, but I’m not certain about that) which, at least for me, demonstrates what I am talking about.  For a few seconds, a guy appearing  to be Oscar Isaacs is being hustled down a very Death Star-looking starship passageway by a Stormtrooper.

 I will get accused of being overly anal about this, but something  about the composition of that shot and the body language of the characters was just wrong.  It immediately made me think of similar shots in the OOT where our captive heroes are being made to walk places they don’t necessarily want to go (think of Han Solo at the Carbonite chamber, or the surrendered starship troopers at the beginning of A New Hope).  Not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but in the TFA footage it just looked “off.”  For one thing, in J.J.’s footage the Stormtrooper has his gun on Oscar Isaacs with one hand, while attempting to briskly shuffle him down the passageway with the other; presumably to take him to some kind of “detention block.”  The thing is, why does the Stormtrooper have his gun on Isaacs when they are presumably on the Stormtrooper’s own ship to begin with?   Why the hell is the Stormtrooper in such a hurry when, again, they are on the Stormtrooper’s own ship?  Why aren’t there two Stormtroopers handling Isaacs?  Why am I being so completely anal about two seconds of footage, the completed version of which I haven’t yet seen?

The reason is because it just looks “wrong.”  It doesn’t look like Star Wars (or at least the only Star Wars that exists to me—namely the OOT).  In the OOT, a shot like this would have had two Stormtroopers walking behind our hero, weapons at port arms, with a pace and body language that suggested power and control…thereby infusing the scene with a sense of gravity and foreboding.  This scene, by contrast, just doesn’t come off well.  It just looks like a Stormtrooper hustling some dude down a hallway, and doesn’t really communicate anything beyond that.  Worse, it kind of makes the Stormtrooper look like--in the words of late-great TV series the Wire—“a graspy little bitch” who can’t handle his business somehow. 

Am I making  my prediction of TFA’s lack of quality based on this one scene?  Hardly.  I am merely attempting to give an example of how J.J. Abrams’s style, for me, doesn’t completely work.  

sunglassesatnite said:

I think TFA WILL be awful.  I’m not hoping for it to be awful, but I think it will be.

Although J.J. Abrams has achieved mainstream success,  I have never truly gotten “on board” with his style of filmmaking.  And it’s not that his movies are completely “awful” any sense.  It’s just that  every time I’ve left out of the theater after seeing one of his movies I have a gnawing, hungry, not-quite-satisfied feeling—similar to the feeling one has after eating at McDonald’s.  Not terrible, but not quite satisfying.  In other words, totally un-OOT-like.

This is a vague feeling and it is hard to explain, but there are micro-moments in Abrams’s various  films where I get sucked straight out of the movie, out of the fantasy--and into a realm where “this doesn’t quite make sense.” Or, “that seems odd why that character would do [or say] that.” 

There are several of these “micro-moments” from J.J.’s films that I could get into (but won’t).  There is, though, one in the latest behind-the-scenes TFA footage (presumably from San Diego, but I’m not certain about that) which, at least for me, demonstrates what I am talking about.  For a few seconds, a guy appearing  to be Oscar Isaacs is being hustled down a very Death Star-looking starship passageway by a Stormtrooper.

 I will get accused of being overly anal about this, but something  about the composition of that shot and the body language of the characters was just wrong.  It immediately made me think of similar shots in the OOT where our captive heroes are being made to walk places they don’t necessarily want to go (think of Han Solo at the Carbonite chamber, or the surrendered starship troopers at the beginning of A New Hope).  Not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but in the TFA footage it just looked “off.”  For one thing, in J.J.’s footage the Stormtrooper has his gun on Oscar Isaacs with one hand, while attempting to briskly shuffle him down the passageway with the other; presumably to take him to some kind of “detention block.”  The thing is, why does the Stormtrooper have his gun on Isaacs when they are presumably on the Stormtrooper’s own ship to begin with?   Why the hell is the Stormtrooper in such a hurry when, again, they are on the Stormtrooper’s own ship?  Why aren’t there two Stormtroopers handling Isaacs?  Why am I being so completely anal about two seconds of footage, the completed version of which I haven’t yet seen?

The reason is because it just looks “wrong.”  It doesn’t look like Star Wars (or at least the only Star Wars that exists to me—namely the OOT).  In the OOT, a shot like this would have had two Stormtroopers walking behind our hero, weapons at port arms, with a pace and body language that suggested power and control…thereby infusing the scene with a sense of gravity and foreboding.  This scene, by contrast, just doesn’t come off well.  It just looks like a Stormtrooper hustling some dude down a hallway, and doesn’t really communicate anything beyond that.  Worse, it kind of makes the Stormtrooper look like--in the words of late-great TV series the Wire—“a graspy little bitch” who can’t handle his business somehow. 

Am I making  my prediction of TFA’s lack of quality based on this one scene?  Hardly.  I am merely attempting to give an example of how J.J. Abrams’s style, for me, doesn’t completely work.  

What of story, what of character development, what of pacing, music, tone and all that other important movie shit? Seems like you're reaching...

Lord Haseo said:

Batman doesn't kill in the comics

He used to. 

DuracellEnergizer said:

Lord Haseo said:

Batman doesn't kill in the comics

He used to. 

I do not know what you are referring to and neither does Batman. Spread your blasphemous filth elsewhere.

Golden Age Batman exists. Get used to it. =P

I was about to make a counterpoint - then I remembered we're arguing about the quality of a movie that hasn't come out yet. Hmm.

It's funny because people are claiming that Abrams is just a rip-off artist who won't add anything new to the franchise and that is film will just be a shallow rehash of the OT. At the same time, people are claiming that Abrams has a style that is inconsistent with the OT and that he will not respect the source and that the film won't fit into the franchise. So some complain there won't be anything new while some complain there won't be anything old. The truth is that none of us will know until December so there's no use complaining about it now.

danny_boy said:

So that little clip in TFA trailer where hundreds of StormTroopers are assembled together ......reeks of the thousands of  Orcs from Lord Of The Rings, the Agent Smiths in the Matrix, The Chitari and Ultrons from the 2 Avengers movies ....and yes the clones and droid armies from the prequels. 

Weird, it reminds me of something else.

It definitely does not resemble anything from the OT.....the technology simply did not exist to convey thousands and thousands of troopers in attendance together(apart for that brief matte painting in ROTJ on the death star when the emperor arrives).

So Lawrence Kasdan co-writing the script means nothing? A lot of you guys are acting as if JJ is doing this film like Lucas did the PT. With no one to second guess him at all. 

What if TFA is awful?

Go and see "In the Heart of the Sea" instead by Ron Howard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7kxxhU9jyA

Is that a good enough answer for your question?

DominicCobb said:

Bingowings said:

Ridley Scott is still a strong visual director but he allowed himself to be associated with a script mangled to death by Lindelof.

It's interesting that every time Lindelof is involved with something people always blame him for its perceived failures. If I remember from what I read, the main issues people have with Prometheus were Scott induced issues, a lot of them in the editing phase.

Not that it really matters in regards to TFA. Lindelof has nothing to do with that.

I like Super8 and Cloverfield but his first Star Trek is as bad/good as any TNG movie and the second one is truly painful in places. He didn't write the screenplay but he allowed himself to be closely associated with it. He is allowing himself to be closely associated with TFA.

But he wrote the screenplay to TFA, he didn't just allow himself to be closely associated with it. The challenge of directing a Star Wars movie vs. the challenge of directing a Star Trek movie is completely different. Sorry Trekkies, but the Star Wars one is a bigger challenge. Abrams is not a Trekkie - that's why they brought him on as director, so that he could reimagine the franchise and make the film engaging for everyone (I'm not saying that's what the film needed, but certainly it was what the execs wanted and it worked). Abrams is a huge Star Wars fan. That's exactly what TFA needs. Someone who loves the franchise (read: the good parts of the franchise) and who understands that if he effs this movie up he won't just be disappointing the whole world but himself too. Hence why he threw away the original, Lucas-story script and wrote a new one from scratch with Kasdan.

A friend of mine has been very skeptical of Episode VII because JJ Abrams "likes to change things."

Your last paragraph there pretty much sums up my response to him.

I feel like the members of this forum are more used to disappointment when it comes to the Star Wars franchise than anyone else on the planet :P

If it sucks, it sucks. Nothing to get hot about. The prequels already broke me to the point of never getting too excited for a much anticipated movie ever again.

Adium said:

I feel like the members of this forum are more used to disappointment when it comes to the Star Wars franchise than anyone else on the planet :P

Personally, I'm used to disappointment when it comes to anything. ;-(

sunglassesatnite said:

This is a vague feeling and it is hard to explain, but there are micro-moments in Abrams’s various  films where I get sucked straight out of the movie, out of the fantasy--and into a realm where “this doesn’t quite make sense.” Or, “that seems odd why that character would do [or say] that.” 

There are several of these “micro-moments” from J.J.’s films that I could get into (but won’t).  There is, though, one in the latest behind-the-scenes TFA footage (presumably from San Diego, but I’m not certain about that) which, at least for me, demonstrates what I am talking about.  For a few seconds, a guy appearing  to be Oscar Isaacs is being hustled down a very Death Star-looking starship passageway by a Stormtrooper.

 I will get accused of being overly anal about this, but something  about the composition of that shot and the body language of the characters was just wrong.  It immediately made me think of similar shots in the OOT where our captive heroes are being made to walk places they don’t necessarily want to go (think of Han Solo at the Carbonite chamber, or the surrendered starship troopers at the beginning of A New Hope).  Not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but in the TFA footage it just looked “off.”  For one thing, in J.J.’s footage the Stormtrooper has his gun on Oscar Isaacs with one hand, while attempting to briskly shuffle him down the passageway with the other; presumably to take him to some kind of “detention block.”  The thing is, why does the Stormtrooper have his gun on Isaacs when they are presumably on the Stormtrooper’s own ship to begin with?   Why the hell is the Stormtrooper in such a hurry when, again, they are on the Stormtrooper’s own ship?  Why aren’t there two Stormtroopers handling Isaacs?  Why am I being so completely anal about two seconds of footage, the completed version of which I haven’t yet seen?

The reason is because it just looks “wrong.”  It doesn’t look like Star Wars (or at least the only Star Wars that exists to me—namely the OOT).  In the OOT, a shot like this would have had two Stormtroopers walking behind our hero, weapons at port arms, with a pace and body language that suggested power and control…thereby infusing the scene with a sense of gravity and foreboding.  This scene, by contrast, just doesn’t come off well.  It just looks like a Stormtrooper hustling some dude down a hallway, and doesn’t really communicate anything beyond that.  Worse, it kind of makes the Stormtrooper look like--in the words of late-great TV series the Wire—“a graspy little bitch” who can’t handle his business somehow. 

Am I making  my prediction of TFA’s lack of quality based on this one scene?  Hardly.  I am merely attempting to give an example of how J.J. Abrams’s style, for me, doesn’t completely work.  

The lone stormtrooper does look off. He seems nervous and agitated. Not typical stormtrooper behavior. He doesn't seem to be just like every other stormtrooper. It's as if he has more personality and emotion to him.. See where i'm going with this?

SilverWook said:

Listening to the director's commentary track on The Island was almost more painful than the movie itself. ;)

 I would do anything for my edit, but I won't do that.

danny_boy said:

sunglassesatnite said:

I think TFA WILL be awful.  I’m not hoping for it to be awful, but I think it will be.

Although J.J. Abrams has achieved mainstream success,  I have never truly gotten “on board” with his style of filmmaking.  And it’s not that his movies are completely “awful” any sense.  It’s just that  every time I’ve left out of the theater after seeing one of his movies I have a gnawing, hungry, not-quite-satisfied feeling—similar to the feeling one has after eating at McDonald’s.  Not terrible, but not quite satisfying.  In other words, totally un-OOT-like.

This is a vague feeling and it is hard to explain, but there are micro-moments in Abrams’s various  films where I get sucked straight out of the movie, out of the fantasy--and into a realm where “this doesn’t quite make sense.” Or, “that seems odd why that character would do [or say] that.” 

There are several of these “micro-moments” from J.J.’s films that I could get into (but won’t).  There is, though, one in the latest behind-the-scenes TFA footage (presumably from San Diego, but I’m not certain about that) which, at least for me, demonstrates what I am talking about.  For a few seconds, a guy appearing  to be Oscar Isaacs is being hustled down a very Death Star-looking starship passageway by a Stormtrooper.

 I will get accused of being overly anal about this, but something  about the composition of that shot and the body language of the characters was just wrong.  It immediately made me think of similar shots in the OOT where our captive heroes are being made to walk places they don’t necessarily want to go (think of Han Solo at the Carbonite chamber, or the surrendered starship troopers at the beginning of A New Hope).  Not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but in the TFA footage it just looked “off.”  For one thing, in J.J.’s footage the Stormtrooper has his gun on Oscar Isaacs with one hand, while attempting to briskly shuffle him down the passageway with the other; presumably to take him to some kind of “detention block.”  The thing is, why does the Stormtrooper have his gun on Isaacs when they are presumably on the Stormtrooper’s own ship to begin with?   Why the hell is the Stormtrooper in such a hurry when, again, they are on the Stormtrooper’s own ship?  Why aren’t there two Stormtroopers handling Isaacs?  Why am I being so completely anal about two seconds of footage, the completed version of which I haven’t yet seen?

The reason is because it just looks “wrong.”  It doesn’t look like Star Wars (or at least the only Star Wars that exists to me—namely the OOT).  In the OOT, a shot like this would have had two Stormtroopers walking behind our hero, weapons at port arms, with a pace and body language that suggested power and control…thereby infusing the scene with a sense of gravity and foreboding.  This scene, by contrast, just doesn’t come off well.  It just looks like a Stormtrooper hustling some dude down a hallway, and doesn’t really communicate anything beyond that.  Worse, it kind of makes the Stormtrooper look like--in the words of late-great TV series the Wire—“a graspy little bitch” who can’t handle his business somehow. 

Am I making  my prediction of TFA’s lack of quality based on this one scene?  Hardly.  I am merely attempting to give an example of how J.J. Abrams’s style, for me, doesn’t completely work.  

 

"Great" "post."

  

 FTFY

CatBus said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Personally, I'm used to disappointment when it comes to anything. ;-(

Give pessimism a try.  If you do it right, you'll never be disappointed again.

 Oh I'm doing it, but I expect to be disappointed frequently nonetheless.

Signed, Guy Who Is Better at Pessimism Than You