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Info: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly - 4k nightmare — Page 3

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Hey Andrea, will you be making your custom Blu-ray a BD50? Would make sense since it's nearly a three hour movie. I also agree the middle choice for the project looks best. Would be nice if the Blu-ray you're working on has a LPCM track.

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PDB said:

Hey Hutt,

    I just checked the PCM file I sent you earlier and the "You're from Baker?" line is there in meeting with the farmer and Lee Van Cleef. Am I looking in the right place or is that the wrong line?


 

My bad! The line is in fact in there. It was me who checked wrong (as a little piece before it was missing, namely when the farmer and Angel Eyes start eating). Sorry for the confusion.

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captainsolo said:

Indeed the new 4K would have to be completely re-timed form scratch. However, even though it is less detailed the Mondo was from the Italian Leone family sponsored restoration, and merely making the adjustments for the International/US theatrical version would be possible, and then we could simply add the PCM LD mono track.

Anyone know where to find the Mondo anymore? I need a copy along with ordering the German BDs of the first two. According to bluray.com there is a new Italian BD but I don't know if it's the same master.

As for LD, the audio is the best for all three due to a lack of filtering that is found on all DVD/BD I have yet come across. On LD you have a far greater dynamic range compared to the lossy newer encodes. Especially noticeable in the score, sound effects and gunshots. These same transfers were re-utilized for DVD save for a few minor alterations. Fistful is slightly cleaner on the letterbox DVD but otherwise the same. FAFDM is slightly cut on the LD yet has some of the rare extensions like Indio's laugh. (essentially like MGM's battered 35mm print I saw, few extensions-no mention of Monco's name) The letterbox DVD is unedited but has none of the additional footage. GBU IIRC from one of our threads has a tiny shot missing on the first DVD, but otherwise the print for both letterboxed LDs and the DVD is the same. The original WS LD had Italian captions for the characters which matched that 35mm print recently on ebay. The remastered LD merely substituted the English captions and this carried over to the DVD.

EDIT: I will check my copies. I have the boxset and 1998 LD remaster, and R1 original DVD. IIRC the later LD's audio is a bit cleaner with less noise.

Seriously considering writing MGM/Fox/whoever I have to about their continued issues with the Leone films. Since hitting video they have been full of cuts, framing issues, audio problems, color fluctuations, damage, over-processing, improper "restoration", fake extended versions..does it end? The new DYS blu, if it ever gets released this year will probably look even worse than this, since MGM/Fox is content to mutilate it further with each release.

BTW, if and when that streets I have both WS LDs for correcting audio.

Thanks for the heads up on the deal.

What's the one scene that's missing from the DVD?

I agree that the LD, I have, seems to match that 35mm print. Both the Italian and the general color timing. The 35 was a 90's print so it all seems to match up also

Sadly, I doubt complaining will fix anything at this point. This was suppose to be the fix for the previous complaints and somehow still no mono and now strange colors. Like I said I could stand a little yellow but it is tending to orange and no one has explained why the skies are now greenish.

Beside the Italian BD, DYS was released in Spain:

http://www.amazon.es/Ag%C3%A1chate-Maldito-Blu-ray-James-Coburn/dp/B00I9TLS5A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401916813&sr=8-1&keywords=sergio+leone

which may be the MGM master and is suppose to be released in Germany sometime coming up.

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TheHutt said:

PDB said:

Hey Hutt,

    I just checked the PCM file I sent you earlier and the "You're from Baker?" line is there in meeting with the farmer and Lee Van Cleef. Am I looking in the right place or is that the wrong line?


 

My bad! The line is in fact in there. It was me who checked wrong (as a little piece before it was missing, namely when the farmer and Angel Eyes start eating). Sorry for the confusion.

 Ok that makes sense but now to figure out the missing howls...

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The 4K doesn't need retiming, it's perfect. Watch it instead of watching grabs. It kills the italian which looks like video.

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Stamper said:

The 4K doesn't need retiming, it's perfect. Watch it instead of watching grabs. It kills the italian which looks like video.

When I regrade it to remove that blanket yellow tint, trust me, it'll look a lot better colourwise.

I do agree with you though that the 4k remaster looks like film while the mondo release looks like video, in that sense the 4k remaster looks much better and more filmic, even with the blanket yellow tint.

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Can't remember for the life of me if it was the DVD or 1998 LD that was missing something.

I ordered the new set with that deal to examine the new transfer for myself. I had never obtained the old MGM BD because of the DNR, so now need to sell off my AFOD/FAFDM BDs.

I'll post here once I get to examine the new transfer, and that mono track which despite a restoration credit will most likely be another downmix of the 5.1 bastard mix.

Wow, Once Upon a Time...The Revolution never gets a fair deal does it? I wonder if the Spanish is different from the Italian disc (probably not as the specs are the same) because what user reviews describe is NOT like the 35mm restored MGM version, though the clarity in the capsaholic grabs does resemble it. It it is indeed Region A it might be needed for a proper reconstruction once the US disc comes out if ever. And supposedly the audio is correct but poor quality and with some errors.

Thus for audio it could be pretty easy: the bulk could be the MGM restored LD PCM mono, with the end scene dialogue line coming from the Image LD mono PCM and the final flashback mono coming from the lossless BD. (As it is cut everywhere else.)

OUATIA was announced today, in a deluxe set with presumably the old 229 min BD (listed as 1984 theatrical though) but the entire longer restoration will be crammed onto one BD-50. WTF? Can there not be one Leone film that doesn't have problems?

For all films there seems to be a constant divide between the US look and Italian look. Some use the o-neg, some have input from original crew..but who is to say which is correct exactly? Prints varied from country to country, and then you have Tech IB vs. standard Eastman etc. I will say that for all the years I've researched these films here's my overall suggestions:

AFOD: US versions are always brighter due to coming from dupes. The Italian looks different coming from the o-neg. Either is acceptable, though MGM's isn't quite as natural. The best is the restored 35mm print, which is heartstoppingly gorgeous.

FAFDM: There's only the MGM which has inherent boosting and EE which is sad because they used the negative. I actually prefer the look of older versions to be honest, with the best being MGM's sole remaining archive print.

GBU: The film has never looked like the new 4K that I know of. Not even the color fluctuations in the 35mm extended US version are remotely like this. The Mondo was from a restoration approved by the Leone estate and seems to be the most balanced of all, especially compared to all the US versions which seem a bit muted. The original R1 DVD/LD is a perfect example of how the film looked-and so was that ebay print that showed up. The Mondo improves upon this with some of the color that didn't carry over to the States from Italy.

Damn. I really need that Mondo.

Why must we have more copies of Leone films than nearly any other? ;)

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader

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captainsolo said:

GBU IIRC from one of our threads has a tiny shot missing on the first DVD, but otherwise the print for both letterboxed LDs and the DVD is the same. The original WS LD had Italian captions for the characters which matched that 35mm print recently on ebay. The remastered LD merely substituted the English captions and this carried over to the DVD.

The 1990 LD, which is identical to the 1993 LD box set, is from a theatrical print. Reel change markers are clearly visible during the film.

The 1998 LD is from an entirely different and uncut source. By uncut I mean it doesn't suffer from the small cuts present on the 1990/1993 LD. There are no reel change markers and the color timing is slightly cooler as well.

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PDB said:

What's the one scene that's missing from the DVD?

 Blondie holstering his pistol right after shooting the 3 bounty hunters after Tuco.

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Lil Brutto said:

PDB said:

What's the one scene that's missing from the DVD?

 Blondie holstering his pistol right after shooting the 3 bounty hunters after Tuco.

 Ah that's it. I remember now. That scene has present or missing in various cuts/prints/discs.

And you are right the earlier widescreen LD is mastered from a release print and has cue marks/cigs. That's why I like that LD. Quite a few LDs were made from release prints back in the day instead of an IP or O neg (really only done now days). Usually it was the studio archive print (Criterion did this a lot). Although they could have done a few changes back then (brightness, saturation,sharpness, etc), those LD are probably the closest you can get to the original colors without getting a print yourself.

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This is what I think the FAFDM R1 DVD was sourced from. It is nearly intact which means it was a different source than the WS LD, and resembled the MGM archive print I saw years ago. However since portions of that were damaged I think what they may have done is combined it with the older transfer, which is what caused the audio track to go off-sync throughout.

Just my two cents.

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader

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A little status update on my project "Creating a real mono sound for the MGM Extended edition of GBU":

The current completion is at ca. 40%. There is not only issue of splicing in the extended pieces, but also issues of asynchronity of the mono track (sometimes for single lines) which also get fixed.

And I gotta say, the old gunshots sound so much better!

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TheHutt said:

A little status update on my project "Creating a real mono sound for the MGM Extended edition of GBU":

The current completion is at ca. 40%. There is not only issue of splicing in the extended pieces, but also issues of asynchronity of the mono track (sometimes for single lines) which also get fixed.

And I gotta say, the old gunshots sound so much better!

 Thanks for the update, sadly I've never heard the mono mix. Very much looking forward to it!

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TheHutt said:

A little status update on my project "Creating a real mono sound for the MGM Extended edition of GBU":

The current completion is at ca. 40%. There is not only issue of splicing in the extended pieces, but also issues of asynchronity of the mono track (sometimes for single lines) which also get fixed.

And I gotta say, the old gunshots sound so much better!

 That's great Hutt!

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poita said:

I have found an IB Tech of the Italian original run of The Good the Bad and the Ugly, but it is USD$1800 + shipping, so it is outside my price bracket by a considerable margin.

Also this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067140/technical?ref_=tt_dt_spec

but it is even more expensive at 1900 Euros.

 Holy crap! I want that print more then anything on this Earth. I wish we could get a buy program together here. You think the owner would take a payment plan?

I'm glad to see that the sky is blue in that frame not the greenish/aqua of the 4K. This is definitely closer to the previous versions then the 4K. It has a little more yellow then previous version which is fine but is far from the ungodly colors of the 4K.

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Well, it is an original release IB Technicolor print, so this print will be how it looked upon release. The audio is italian, and it is the full length original version.

Probably could do a payment plan with the seller, I have been looking for an IB of the original for a long time, this is the only one that has come up after looking at over 5000 lists in Italy (I'm not kidding).

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!

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Forgive my ignorance but once one has this print what is the process and cost associated with conversion for home viewing?

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The print is scanned at 4K resolution with a damage matte, and then colour corrected to match the print. This is then archived.

After that the damage can be cleaned up, and whatever downscaling, compression done to make it viewable in 1080P or UHD resolution.

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!

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I'd love to see an actual IB print to see how it compares with what was done on the new 4K disc.  We are supposed to believe that the yellow is that extreme?  I mean maybe but to me it's a stretch.

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poita said:

Well, it is an original release IB Technicolor print, so this print will be how it looked upon release. The audio is italian, and it is the full length original version.

Probably could do a payment plan with the seller, I have been looking for an IB of the original for a long time, this is the only one that has come up after looking at over 5000 lists in Italy (I'm not kidding).

 Wow so not only an IB Tech print but an Italian IB Tech print? I thought the LPP that appeared on ebay was a once in a lifetime opportunity. I mean there can't be more then a dozen of these in the world wide, if that.

Maybe it is worth asking the buyer if they are willing to do a payment plan. I have little to no money right now but I seriously want to see if we can make this happen. I can't see ever getting a hold of an Italian IB again. Do they indicate if there are any damage or splices? 

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djchaseb said:

I'd love to see an actual IB print to see how it compares with what was done on the new 4K disc.  We are supposed to believe that the yellow is that extreme?  I mean maybe but to me it's a stretch.

 Well if you believe the restoration notes, this is the exact thing (Italian IB Tech) they used to color correct the 4K but of course that pic looks nothing like what we have seen so far from the 4K. Can anyone post a comparison of that scene to the new 4K?

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PDB said:

djchaseb said:

I'd love to see an actual IB print to see how it compares with what was done on the new 4K disc.  We are supposed to believe that the yellow is that extreme?  I mean maybe but to me it's a stretch.

 Well if you believe the restoration notes, this is the exact thing (Italian IB Tech) they used to color correct the 4K but of course that pic looks nothing like what we have seen so far from the 4K. Can anyone post a comparison of that scene to the new 4K?

 All I had time for tonight, haven't ripped this to my pc, but here's a quick cell phone pic