The Old Poppins HDTV master was filled with the worst DNR I have ever seen it looked like this:
http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison.php?cap1=25712&cap2=24883&art=full&image=0&cID=1878&action=1&lossless=#vergleich
But worse
Um... well then it's a good thing that's clearly not the master going to Blu? I don't know what to tell you. I'm putting the quality on this one down to jpg compression.
A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em
dvdmike said:
The Old Poppins HDTV master was filled with the worst DNR I have ever seen it looked like this:
http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison.php?cap1=25712&cap2=24883&art=full&image=0&cID=1878&action=1&lossless=#vergleich
But worse
Looks like they over-sharpened it as well...
dvdmike said:
The Old Poppins HDTV master was filled with the worst DNR I have ever seen it looked like this:
http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison.php?cap1=25712&cap2=24883&art=full&image=0&cID=1878&action=1&lossless=#vergleich
But worse
Wow, man. WTF is that?!
It has an effective resolution of like 2x2.
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
Btw, I did read a comment that the shot change in the Little Mermaid might be for more effective use of 3D.
That is, it may prevent the 3D effect from falling apart because of a fast or jarring change in scenes. The fact that we see it in the 2D version as well is because Disney is a bunch of cheap bastards.
Beauty and the Beast had more color changes, objects moved, lines thinned and new artwork painted in for the 3D release. I could easily see that being the case here as well.
Seriously, I think the worst treatment of library animation titles has been under John Lasseter's watch at the animation department.
Sure some unfortunate things were done when the IMAX releases were done, but I'm not sure Roy E. would have ever let this crap happen.
Dr. M
bkev said:
Um... well then it's a good thing that's clearly not the master going to Blu? I don't know what to tell you. I'm putting the quality on this one down to jpg compression.
That looks awful!! that is an oversharp mess
Doctor M said:
To compare it to the Limited DVD release is a mistake since that series of DVDs is across the board awful. It was a half hearted poorly managed first foray into DVDs. I wouldn't need one hand to count the films they got right in that series.
in terms of video that might be true on some, more or less. but in the audio department many of these releases excell compared to the later released edition. tlm, mulan contained the original theatrical mixes. both of these movies suffered on the platinum dvd.
Doctor M said:
@klingon_jedi - I maintain and continue to maintain that the Platinum Edition is a great transfer of the film. The colors match the first laserdisc release.
To compare it to the Limited DVD release is a mistake since that series of DVDs is across the board awful. It was a half hearted poorly managed first foray into DVDs. I wouldn't need one hand to count the films they got right in that series.
Except for the knee edit and the soundtrack, since fixed in a custom release, there is no reason to doubt its accuracy. Clements and Musker at least were consulted, which is more than we can say for the BD.
I can't imaging that the one thing they wouldn't insist on is the accuracy of the color of Ariel's tail.
Umm... no they don't. I'm not even comparing it to the limited DVD nor did I ever say I did. I own both the 1990 Laserdisc and the 2006 DVD. The colors are are often drastically different. It may error closer to the 90, and it may match it moreso than the 98 and first DVD (which I've never seen), but they do not match in any of the shots I've compared. Ariel's tail is outright green in almost every shot I've looked at on the DVD. It's blue-green on the 1990. I used to set the tint on my TVs to her tail when I was young. The film should be red and blue, the Platinum is basically orange/pink and green to me. The knee edit, botched soundtrack, and often vastly different color timing all combine to make the Platinum all but unwatchable for me. My laser is actually messed up at Under the Sea, and I still watch it over that DVD. What I've seen of the new BD is a lot closer to the LD though I'm sure it won't match it either. Still, it was looking more promising that some of the last few.
Your own write up supports me too. ^_^
Also, anyone know if the knee is back? I somehow doubt it.
Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.
All that said, I still call the original laserdisc the more accurate for purists, but not everyone is willing to watch a full frame version in LD quality for SOME colors being more accurate.
The Restored Edition (based on the Platinum) the second best choice. It's sharp, clean, anamorphic, and most colors are close to right.
There are a lot of compromises when picking a version of Disney's films.
For the BD, ATM we only know of one shuffling of a scene. Once this is officially released we may see more changes.
If someone is willing to recut the BD, repaint a knee and there are no further issues or over re-animation crapification, then MAYBE the BD will make the list.
Dr. M
The replacement of "Walt Disney Presents" and the direct cut (rather than a crossfade) to Scuttle have been confirmed as well. Also, the animation of Ariel climbing out of the water onto the wedding ship is now less choppy. On the Platinum Edition, it looked like a couple frames were missing since it appeared Ariel "jumped" out of the water. Minor, yes, but still a change. There may be other new animation changes as well.
changes on the little mermaid blu-ray
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=8024702&postcount=1921
the "part of your world" change is really stupid.
#update#
side-by-side of the part of your world change
Questions regarding Mermaid...
1) Is Doctor M's Restored Theatrical Edition still up? I tried downloading it via JDownloader, but the files won't download for some reason.
2) Are there laserdisc audio preservations that are non-English? Also, do non-English laserdiscs exist in 5.1?
Thanks.
EmpireSB said:
Questions regarding Mermaid...
1) Is Doctor M's Restored Theatrical Edition still up? I tried downloading it via JDownloader, but the files won't download for some reason.
2) Are there laserdisc audio preservations that are non-English? Also, do non-English laserdiscs exist in 5.1?
Thanks.
I can answer part 1. All the pieces are still online.
Not sure what the download issue might be.
Dr. M
It's very strange... the files kept timing out. Then two of the timed out files started downloading. Now that those have finished, the rest keep timing out... They don't seem to be connecting for some reason.
I'd be interested in seeing if there is indeed, as I've been led to believe, a full Japanese dub of The Little Mermaid that has the "goran nasai" version of Part of Your World rather than the "yoku mite" version.
"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)
Today, I got "The Jungle Book" on Blu-ray (FYI, blu-ray.com states that USA gets "The Jungle Book" on Blu-ray February 11th, 2014) and I gotta say it might be a better Acceptable Alternative over the 2007 Platinum Edition DVD. What I don't get is that on "Oz the Great and Powerful", there is preview for "The Jungle Book" Diamond Edition that's in 1.33:1 (the footage from "The Jungle Book", I mean.). Why, Walt Disney Pictures? Why lie?
Slightly off topic, but is there anybody else who has "The Jungle Book" on Blu-ray?
Currently enjoying Disney Infinity 3.0
EmpireSB said:
It's very strange... the files kept timing out. Then two of the timed out files started downloading. Now that those have finished, the rest keep timing out... They don't seem to be connecting for some reason.
Update: The files are downloading now, so it must have been an issue with the server. Thank you very much for taking the time to create this theatrical edition. I am very excited to watch this!
I'm not familiar with the laserdisc releases of Mermaid. Does anyone know if the original laserdisc of Mermaid contains the theatrical audio mix? Also, have all the different mixes from the various laserdisc releases been preserved, like the 1997 5.1 remix?
@Avatar_Emi I was going to import it, but decided to wait until it is released in the U.S. Therefore, I can't comment on your question, but I know that sometimes Disney's trailers aren't always representative of the final product.
...and the final product isn't always representative of what is released in other countries. Jungle Book is the same era and uses xerography like Sword in the Stone. I don't see the U.S. release looking much better than SitS does.
As far as the Little Mermaid audio: The first LD release of LM has Dolby surround (2 channel prologic), which would be based on the ORIGINAL Dolby theatrical mix. IIRC, in theaters it was a sort of analog equivalent to DD 5.1. This disc is pan and scan.
The 1998 LD contains the 5.1 digitally remaster soundtrack from the 1997 release as well as a mono and Dolby surround track. I'm not sure if the latter two are downmixes of the '97 mix or from the '89 mix.
The first DVD is pretty much identical to the 1998 LD. It is non-animorphic letterboxed and contains the 5.1 digitally remastered track.
Imdb claims there was 70mm 6-track original release mix. I couldn't prove it, but it's possible.
I couldn't tell you if there is much difference between the '89 and '97 mix. It's most likely that they just reproduced the Dolby analog mix as a Digital mix because theaters were changing over.
This would be unlike the DEHT mixes where they assume you only have TV speakers and are half deaf.
Dr. M
Btw, I dug out some screenshots of the Euro Diamond Edition of Jungle Book.
Yes, it looks as bad as Sword in the Stone. It's also badly compressed. I saw one person referred to it as a blockfest.
Lower expectations accordingly.
I'd post screenshots, but I'm lazy.
Dr. M
Doctor M said:
...and the final product isn't always representative of what is released in other countries. Jungle Book is the same era and uses xerography like Sword in the Stone. I don't see the U.S. release looking much better than SitS does.
As far as the Little Mermaid audio: The first LD release of LM has Dolby surround (2 channel prologic), which would be based on the ORIGINAL Dolby theatrical mix. IIRC, in theaters it was a sort of analog equivalent to DD 5.1. This disc is pan and scan.The 1998 LD contains the 5.1 digitally remaster soundtrack from the 1997 release as well as a mono and Dolby surround track. I'm not sure if the latter two are downmixes of the '97 mix or from the '89 mix.
The first DVD is pretty much identical to the 1998 LD. It is non-animorphic letterboxed and contains the 5.1 digitally remastered track.
Imdb claims there was 70mm 6-track original release mix. I couldn't prove it, but it's possible.
I couldn't tell you if there is much difference between the '89 and '97 mix. It's most likely that they just reproduced the Dolby analog mix as a Digital mix because theaters were changing over.
This would be unlike the DEHT mixes where they assume you only have TV speakers and are half deaf.
With a little google-fu
Little Mermaid, The Spherical (Super 1.85:1) Nov 15 (USA) 6-Track Dolby Stereo Walt Disney
OAR blow-up. First spherically photographed Disney animated film to be blown-up to 70mm.
70mm. Cool. That'd be a great track to have.
Btw, some suggestions if anyone is planning to re-edit the Little Mermaid BD.
If you need the Limited Edition audio track, PM me and I'll get a clean rip. The version on my release was cut to fit.
I can also provide the original 'knee' clip from the original disc.
If you are going to sync a new audio track, do not do it by eye. Some people are more sensitive to desync than others.
Count frames to match or use an editor and run the audio tracks side by side. When you hear an echo, go back, cut, adjust and repeat.
Finally, EmpireSB gave me a good idea. It would be fantastic if someone could do a digital laserdisc rip of the original laserdisc stereo track.
A lossless mix of the original theatrical release would be a real nice option in addition to the re-release DD track.
Dr. M
I think it's wonderful that we fans get together to do these kinds of preservation.
Personally, I'd love to get a copy of "Snow White" as I remember it, grainy and not so bright / slightly brownish-pastel.
I'd also like to have the open matte versions of the newer ( post "The Jungle Book" ) films, especially "Beauty and the Beast" ( laserdisc, anyone?)
But the real grail for me, and I'm afraid nobody will be able to help me on this, is the original 1938 Brazilian Portuguese dubbing of "Snow White".
It was the first "de facto" dubbing made in Brazil, it featured a cast of radio stars, Snow White's speaking voice was done by a fine singer that would become the most popular of the 1940's, Walt Disney was so impressed with the results that he personally sent a letter of praise and a gold watch to the director.... but I've never heard a word of it. Since the movie was redubbed in 1966, long before any kind of home video release, that first version has completely vanished. No excerpts have ever been made available. I can't even get any confirmation that it still exists...
Mazaliche said:
I think it's wonderful that we fans get together to do these kinds of preservation.
Personally, I'd love to get a copy of "Snow White" as I remember it, grainy and not so bright / slightly brownish-pastel.
I'd also like to have the open matte versions of the newer ( post "The Jungle Book" ) films, especially "Beauty and the Beast" ( laserdisc, anyone?)
But the real grail for me, and I'm afraid nobody will be able to help me on this, is the original 1938 Brazilian Portuguese dubbing of "Snow White".
It was the first "de facto" dubbing made in Brazil, it featured a cast of radio stars, Snow White's speaking voice was done by a fine singer that would become the most popular of the 1940's, Walt Disney was so impressed with the results that he personally sent a letter of praise and a gold watch to the director.... but I've never heard a word of it. Since the movie was redubbed in 1966, long before any kind of home video release, that first version has completely vanished. No excerpts have ever been made available. I can't even get any confirmation that it still exists...
I've seen torrents for the LDs you mentioned, but last I look there weren't any seeders. I think some members here have made preservations, but I don't know where to find them. Anyone know?
Are there open matte versions of Disney's animated films? I think the LDs are either P&S or letterbox.
I'm assuming the Brazilian Portuguese dub for "Snow White" hasn't been commercially released? Maybe it hasn't surfaced because the elements didn't survive after all these years. It's a shame when films, parts of film and works of art in general become lost forever.
If it was animated Academy, then usually any 4:3 version is Academy (and open matte if theatrical OAR was widescreen).
"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)
The fullscreen version usually shows more animation, and I'm fascinated with fullscreen versions in general, whether open matte or pan & scan. I even started a thread on this:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Fullscreen-Laserdisc-DVD-Preservation/topic/15846/
As for the original Brazilian dubbing of "Snow White", Disney supposedly keeps copies of the foreign versions of its movies, so they might have it. However, I don't think they'd bother to check or make even a small clip available ( just for the record, the 1966 dubbing is a gem in its own right ).
By the way, I heard the original Spanish dubbing is gone, too.
Even if they censor and over-restore their films, Disney's record regarding preservation is still much better than what we see happening with other studios.
On the other hand, they did not preserve Fantasia's original narration, so who knows what they still have, and what has simply rotten away?
