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Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 328

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just looking at angel's old mockups.

is that the bottom of the paintng in the bottom right? ROTJ really seems to suffer from man-stood-in-fron-of-painting syndrome. that and dull sets.

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muddyknees2000 said:

dabest13 said:

... if it is indeed concealed that Anakin and Vader are one in the same, obviously the transformation scene would have never been seen. 

 Which would open things up for a much better "Birth of Vader" type scene. More spiritual and akin to a knighting ceremony than the scientific "operating table" scene that we DID get....

EDIT: Obviously Vader would already be partially in costume so that we have no idea that it is Anakin...and the knighting ceremony would just be Palpy formally giving him his Darth name....the "force lift" lowering of his helmet shroud (like in the painting) would be a nice touch though...

Now THAT would be an iconic scene.  Would be nice to actually see that at the end instead of Vader joining Palpatine overseeing the construction of the Death Star.  No dialogue required - nothing but music instead.  Man what an overhaul the PT:R is going to be lol.  And I'm liking the idea of Padme not having to die either.  Say she was on Alderaan when it blew up.  What if Vader found out during ROTJ somehow like say what if the Emperor knew she was on the planet when it exploded or something?

Oh and I'd still prefer it that Leia does remain Luke's sister despite the incestuous kiss lol.  All this "there is another" business etc.  Obvious there were signs in ESB in the first place so I wouldn't have that aspect changed.... at all.

“Did you know, the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?! Look it up.”

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muddyknees2000 said:

fgqb#19nyj said:

 

 

10. fix the imperial bunker's missing locked door while Han impersonates as an imperial officer to get them to open it.

GOT A SCREENCAP? NOT AWARE OF THIS ONE.

*hmm. Maybe they already addressed this. It was a scene that was either before or after Han was impersonating as an Imperial. Can't remember, really.*

 

Screencap?

 

 

 

Is this it? Is the all changed angle or is my idea?

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I'm just wondering what's the point of Adywan doing Episodes I-III, when the acting in those movies are flat out terrible, and the way those movies are written seem like fan-films/fan-fiction. There's nothing Adywan can do to fix the bad acting, so why even bother?

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Angel is not working with Adywan, apparently he is working on an editing project with someone but I don't know whom.

He did a large number of conceptual mock ups on idea threads like this one and that period was a load of laughs but personality politics Yokoed the affair.

I imagine part of the fun for people like Ady (this isn't a uniquely Adywan centered thread BTW) is that both trilogies have different pluses and minuses when it comes to editing .

The OT is so beloved that altering it too much can be seen by some as vandalism but so much already works that there is a strong foundation on which to build.

The PT was so messed up and such a disappointment that turning them into watchable films offers more freedom but also more of a challenge.

Remembering an early attempt to make the bar scene in AOTC work showed me that there is the potential for a watchable trilogy in there but it needs a lot of work.

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Titus said:

muddyknees2000 said:

fgqb#19nyj said:

 

 

10. fix the imperial bunker's missing locked door while Han impersonates as an imperial officer to get them to open it.

GOT A SCREENCAP? NOT AWARE OF THIS ONE.

*hmm. Maybe they already addressed this. It was a scene that was either before or after Han was impersonating as an Imperial. Can't remember, really.*

 

Screencap?

 

 

 

Is this it? Is the all changed angle or is my idea?

Nah, that wasn't what I was referring to. Were those images created offline? If so, how the hell did you post them here?

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Bingowings said:

Angel is not working with Adywan, apparently he is working on an editing project with someone but I don't know whom.

He did a large number of conceptual mock ups on idea threads like this one and that period was a load of laughs but personality politics Yokoed the affair.

Hey i find this guy here that probably is the guy you are looking for. http://aggeiw.deviantart.com/ Maybe he can help us here. :-)

Wow so many good images there!

Is this it? Is the all changed angle or is my idea?

Nah, that wasn't what I was referring to. Were those images created offline? If so, how the hell did you post them here?

(yay i finaly learned how to use the post editor!)

I took the image from doubleofive's site :-)

 

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The more I look at those mockup's the more I want to see a version of OT with Angel's vision.  It would be absolutely awesome!  Unfortunately, that will probably never happen.

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1Shouta said:

I'm just wondering what's the point of Adywan doing Episodes I-III, when the acting in those movies are flat out terrible, and the way those movies are written seem like fan-films/fan-fiction. There's nothing Adywan can do to fix the bad acting, so why even bother?

I disagree. I think Adywan can do this. If you remove the most juvenilistic scenes, change or eliminate bad dialogue and alter the Gungans' and Neimoidian's voices so they sound alien instead, it's possible he can make the Prequels into something more interesting.

There was a video that showed Jar Jar with a New Jersey accent, and believe it or not, he sounded very cool.

I know this is a monumental task, but I think when Adywan gets around to doing them, he will be at this point more proficient in his editing skills to make a difference.

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I am happy you found Angel people. Is there a possible way to bring him back? I think doubleohfive who holds the art/mock-ups with his site should send him an email. Everyone can try ofcourse. I really cant wait to see this work in motion as emanswfan said! :-D

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Angel's been in the forum for a long time before you joined Titus, I think I've never seen anything of Angel in motion. He's mainly an illustrator.

Regarding the prequels, I think it's a more titanic idea than just changing the neimodians and gungan's voices. It all depends on the skillset of the artist (yes, to make the prequels into something close to cinema, you have to be an artist and not just a fan-editor) and I don't really think that would be a limit if you have Adywan. There's plenty of ideas to be implemented, some of them even being part of "integral" changes. I remember having sent a PM to Adywan with a "corpus" (my courpus, lol) of chained, progressive changes that could be made to strenghten the characters of the PT, I guess he'll get to it in time), but the point is that this possibility, indeed, this necessity of making structural changes to the trilogy is the reason why I celebrate Ady's decission of revisiting the three of them simultaneously.

 

Greetings!

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I think there is more than meets the eye with this. I cant take all the facts here what was happened with Angel guy. I guess that we missed one good oportunity to see something spectacular! But we have Adywan at the end. Still better from nothing. :-) Impressive work from all of you!

Star Wars Revisited Wordpress / Google+ / Facebook / Twitter

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LOL...Star Wars: Revisited...better than nothing.

Best. Tag Line. Ever.

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I think they're representatives of two different approaches. Just like Brunelleschi or Bramante did regarding ancient art, Adywan aims to restore the current movies to their former glory and shining.

Angel, on the other hand, like Bernini or Borromini, while respecting the ancient language and syntax of architecture, allows himself some permissions that wouldn't have place in a more objective view, like Adywan has. I think that in part is the main reason for them not working together, or at least not working completely together, because in the end each other's work is rather famous within this community to be in vox populi, just like now.

I have always had more personal contact with Angel since I'm not so fond of the infalibility of the OT; and with Vaderios it's always an open discussion about what (in terms of script, story, and mainly visuals) could be done to fix it, although he's not so open to discussion on technical aspects, because he's a speciallist in image treatment, and he already knows the answer when you are just starting to ask. Ady instead already has the idea on his head, and the discussion is likely to go on the field of how to do it, as you can check on his thread, it's more about framerates, compression rates, compositing, and technical aspects, precisely because the idea of the edit never comes to question. But I want this to be clear, the revisited saga is not just "better than nothing", it's a bit more than that.

Probably the results, in terms of richness and impoluteness of Ady's and Angel's work would be similar or not-so-different, but in the end it's their two different creative processes what adds value to each of them. I feel enormous respect for both of them and their work (I think the Bramante-Borromini comparison said it all, hah)

I also feel extremely curious about PT:R, for Ady won't have a precise horizon as he has now when he puts an aim to the OT:R saying "the special editions as they should have been". Of course, he'll still have the premise, "prequels will match the OT and not vice-versa", but as you can imagine the freedom margin is quite huge to make almost everything he wants to improve those horrible movies. And that will be where his MO will change or at least be set to revision; as previously said, I wait to see what comes out of it.

Greetings!

 

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I can't wait to see what this is building up to ;)

J

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My concern with PT:R, is will Ady will be able to redo almost all the vfx of the PT, because the PT and the OT look absolutely nothing alike.  Honestly, I like the look of the PT (but not the horrible CGI) more so than the OT (more modern, you could say), which is the reason I love Angel's mockups of the OT.

Now, Adywan has the opposite approach, it seems. To make PT:R be truly like the OT, it has to match it visually on so many levels.  It would require so much new material and fx shots, it's overwhelming.  I really can't wait to see Adywan will do.

Either way, both Angel's and Ady's visions are huge ideas that could take a lot to accomplish, which is why I can't imagine seeing any of this stuff soon.

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I love the OT as much as the next guy, and that's why it's great to have stuff like the preservations and Harmy's despecialized editions. But I don't think that when working on the OT one should go by the adage "make the PT match the OT instead of vice versa." For a special edition, it should be special. And yes, I like Revisited as much as the next guy, but if your going to visually update these films, why not add PT elements? I'm not really one to say since I don't mind the PT, but for people that hate them, are they really that bad that you can't admit to liking any aspects of them?  I think there are quite a bit of cool designs in the PT that would look really interesting in the OT.

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Yes, they really ARE that bad......BUT....the designs aren't bad at all. The reason there's so much dislike of the PT when compared to the OT by folks like us who are working on Revisited (when it comes to designs) is that they made almost NO effort to match the PT to what had been created before it (and which comes after it chronologically in the SW universe). There's a very rushed 10 mins at the end of ROTS where they try to throw familiar looking things at you in hopes of tying the end of that film to the beginning of ANH, but overall its hard to imagine ANH, ESB and ROTJ coming AFTER the slick, ultra fast feel of the PT. Things should have been made clunkier looking and LESS modern in order to fit with what had already been seen. Hell, even iconic things like the lightsabers were given pointier tips and different sounding on/off effects than what we knew from the OT. Apart from the design aspects theres also all kinds of additional problems and contradictions from OT to PT. Yoda was Ben's former master? Not anymore in the PT. Leia remembered her REAL mother? Not possible after the PT. Dark side not stronger (only quicker, easier, more seductive)? Not in George's PT...now its definitely stronger. The original material that is the OT...the 3 films that made it possible for the PT to even exist were completely disregarded when making the PT and that is what makes them so unlikable to many (not to mention the horrible direction and bad acting). SW had a certain feeling to it.....most likely brought about by the fact that 4 & 5 were character films....NOT special effects films...ROTJ started to show signs of story weaknesses....So when you get to the PT where the characters are barely fleshed out and the "story" reads more like a documentary with better special effects than most....well then you've left out the very feeling that made SW what it was in the first place.

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No yeah I totally get what you're saying. I too think it's hard to believe the OT comes after the PT. That's why I think more PT designs should be in the OT. The slick stuff was only in the PT, but I think it might be cool to see some of it in the OT as many of the mock ups have proven.

As for the continuity errors, I think quite a few of them are hard to fix from a PT stand point, but much easier to fix from an OT stand point. I liked thinking Yoda was Kenobi's master as much as the next guy, but if you're putting the two trilogies in the same continuity, from which end is it easier to fix the error? As is Yoda being Obi's master is, unfortunately, just a throwaway line. But Qui Gon being his master is rather something of an unavoidable plot point. And yeah, when I first saw TPM I thought "who the hell is this Qui Gon?" But you know what? I kind of like him.

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I don't have a problem with Qui Gonn as a new character......but he should not have been written in as Obi's master.....thats just bad writing in that you're ignoring what's already been revealed. Would it be easier to change the throwaway line in the OT? Definitely, yes......but we're not trying to do whats easy.....we're trying to make the new work pay proper homage to the old, pre-existing work as should have been done in the first place. The OT has been around for 25-30 years (depending on the specific episode), and thats a long time for particular things to become ingrained into popular culture and in the minds and imaginations of loyal fans everywhere....so to then come along and make new films that completely ignore what came before it is not only insulting to the fans, it just downright doesn't make any sense. George was always bitter about the OT....hates the fact that EP V is the most popular film of the trilogy (as its the one he had the least to do with), and that shows in his disregard of it when he made the PT and his million and one changes with every new release of the OT when the coffers get a bit empty.

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Other than the bad direction and acting, which I agree, there really are no contradictions.

Yoda trained Obi-Wan in the use of the force first and Qui-Gon trained him in the field afterwards. TPM hints that Yoda had taught Obi-Wan at the very beginning of the film and AOTC shows that Yoda trains Jedi Padawans when they're young. Why is that hard to figure out? 

The dark side isn't stronger, because if it was, Anakin would have defeated Obi-Wan, too. Plus, the Prequels never said that it was anyway, so I don't know how you came up with that.

Leia remembers her mother because she, being born after Luke, somehow had some mental connection with her mother while she was dying, hence the images and feelings that she retained in later years. The Force is strong with Anakin's children, right? It isn't real anyway, so why let it bother you.

Besides some of the bad acting and poor direction, there is still a lot of good things in the Prequels. A good edit could salvage these films. But if you're going to butcher the films to make it completely different and hopefully better, then you're looking at the impossible. So why bother? You're better off just cutting out what isn't needed and adjusting around scenes to make it more watchable and entertaining like what some fan editors have managed to do.

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Yoda was never shown training Obi in any of the films, therefore any reference to that ever happening is EU...which is being disregarded for the purpose of the Revisited edits.....and when Ben said that Yoda was previously his master it wasn't meant as "oh yeah, he taught the 1st year class I was in"......thats just retconning that GL tried to pass off in the PT.

I can't remember what film the line is in, but they outright say that the dark side is stronger.....if someone would be so kind as to point out which film and scene, I'd be grateful.

Leia remembers her mother because she was born after Luke? Because she had a mental connection with her mother while she was dying? Must have missed the scene where they explained that in the film. 

As for any of it bothering me...it doesn't anymore. I sleep very well at night. I ignore the prequels, treat them as if they do not exist...and that worked fine for me up until I discovered Revisited....at which point I volunteered my services, joined the team and hoped to take the problem films (1,2,3 & 6 in my opinion) and do my small part to make them better.

As for us being better off just doing what other fan editors have already done...we aspire to do something more than that. If you don't agree with it then no-one can force you to watch any particular version...and you're free to choose whichever you like.