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Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!) — Page 34

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darth_ender said:

BTW, I included the Ric Olie cameo as only a semi-serious item, and suggested Frink voice him as a complete joke I made up at the last minute.  I'm surprised how well Olie is doing and Frink's voicing him is doing!

lol wut

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You catch on pretty quick.  Yes, you're apparently a popular choice to voice a Ric Olie cameo in the ROTJ edit, age being a primary factor, considering it takes place more than 30 years after TPM ;)

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TV's Frink said:

darth_ender said:

BTW, I included the Ric Olie cameo as only a semi-serious item, and suggested Frink voice him as a complete joke I made up at the last minute.  I'm surprised how well Olie is doing and Frink's voicing him is doing!

lol wut

He means in the voting.  Not in the actual voice acting part, which I'm sure you'll do fine.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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I won't be the first person to say this, but I will be the first person to say this in this thread:

As much as I agree that it makes storytelling sense that Luke was with Yoda since the end of ESB, and that the "now I am a Jedi" and whatnot is well placed ahead of his assault on Jabba's palace...

I think it really wrecks Luke's introduction in the film.  Unknown months have passed since we last saw Luke, and he was pretty messed up.  Regarding the reveal that Vader is/was his father, the audience isn't quite sure if Luke will be the hero we need him to be, or the villain he could be.

When he shows up all in black and uses his Jedi powers to still the gamorreans and mind trick the twi'lek... well... I think we're supposed to be a little unsure of the guy.

Also, who's under the hood isn't revealed for a few moments either.

I also think that the Yoda scene is a nice 2nd act scene structurally, and it doesn't really fit at the very start of the film.

Obviously this noble quest you're all on will at best produce an alternate RotJ, so if the rest of you prefer to sacrifice the film logic for story logic, that's fine... but it probably won't be definitive to me.

At any rate... good luck!

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/How-would-you-have-done-ROTJ/topic/10450/

This thread in the rewrite forum might be mined for some good ideas.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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xhonzi said:

I won't be the first person to say this, but I will be the first person to say this in this thread:

As much as I agree that it makes storytelling sense that Luke was with Yoda since the end of ESB, and that the "now I am a Jedi" and whatnot is well placed ahead of his assault on Jabba's palace...

I think it really wrecks Luke's introduction in the film.  Unknown months have passed since we last saw Luke, and he was pretty messed up.  Regarding the reveal that Vader is/was his father, the audience isn't quite sure if Luke will be the hero we need him to be, or the villain he could be.

When he shows up all in black and uses his Jedi powers to still the gamorreans and mind trick the twi'lek... well... I think we're supposed to be a little unsure of the guy.

Also, who's under the hood isn't revealed for a few moments either.

I also think that the Yoda scene is a nice 2nd act scene structurally, and it doesn't really fit at the very start of the film.

Obviously this noble quest you're all on will at best produce an alternate RotJ, so if the rest of you prefer to sacrifice the film logic for story logic, that's fine... but it probably won't be definitive to me.

At any rate... good luck!

I don't think anyone thought Luke was going to be a villain at the START of ROTJ. And he seemed fine at the end of Empire, albeit with a robot hand. I think this might be reading too much into things. But again, just my opinion.

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The entrance scene is well framed but the effect lasts seconds (and is undermined by the awful pig guard design).

The effect of Luke going back to Dagobah to complete his training only to have Yoda croak suddenly in mid conversation percolates through the whole film.

It makes the final confrontation seem improbable that Luke with only a few weeks or days of training takes on a life long Force user and former Jedi trained by the best since childhood (even in his aged cyborg state) and wipes the floor with him.

It also makes Yoda's scene redundant and forced almost as if a writer had forgotten about the big fuss made about returning in the previous film and squeezed the scene just to dot all the Ts.

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xhonzi said:

I won't be the first person to say this, but I will be the first person to say this in this thread:

As much as I agree that it makes storytelling sense that Luke was with Yoda since the end of ESB, and that the "now I am a Jedi" and whatnot is well placed ahead of his assault on Jabba's palace...

I think it really wrecks Luke's introduction in the film.  Unknown months have passed since we last saw Luke, and he was pretty messed up.  Regarding the reveal that Vader is/was his father, the audience isn't quite sure if Luke will be the hero we need him to be, or the villain he could be.

When he shows up all in black and uses his Jedi powers to still the gamorreans and mind trick the twi'lek... well... I think we're supposed to be a little unsure of the guy.

Also, who's under the hood isn't revealed for a few moments either.

I also think that the Yoda scene is a nice 2nd act scene structurally, and it doesn't really fit at the very start of the film.

Obviously this noble quest you're all on will at best produce an alternate RotJ, so if the rest of you prefer to sacrifice the film logic for story logic, that's fine... but it probably won't be definitive to me.

At any rate... good luck!

I have been messing around with stuff and I can see your point, because I think it would not hurt to keep it the same as the original but there are some opportunities to be missed done that way but I actually believe it works quite well after the new opening I have done and links to later on when luke completes his light sabre because of the crystal he gives him... Stay tuned and I will have the very start until the briefing up as a rough cut. with additions and some audio fixes too.

Although this does not stick entirely to Darth Enders script, I have got it working and it incorporates alot of ideas onn here.

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MrInsaneA said:

I don't think anyone thought Luke was going to be a villain at the START of ROTJ. And he seemed fine at the end of Empire, albeit with a robot hand. I think this might be reading too much into things. But again, just my opinion.

 My friends and I were all a tad worried.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Time

xhonzi said:

MrInsaneA said:

I don't think anyone thought Luke was going to be a villain at the START of ROTJ. And he seemed fine at the end of Empire, albeit with a robot hand. I think this might be reading too much into things. But again, just my opinion.

 My friends and I were all a tad worried.

To each his own. However, I agree with Bingowings, Dagobah before Tatooine is really the way to go.

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 (Edited)

timdiggerm said:

Isn't part of the point of ROTJ that you're supposed to worry about Luke? If you don't, there's no tension in the Emperor's offer.

The problem there, as the film stands, is that past the first few seconds of seeing Luke, there's never any sign that he might turn. He shows up all mysterious and dark, but we quickly see that he's still on the right path and then he goes to Yoda and it's confirmed that he's a goodie. There is no tension in the Emperors offer. The tension comes from wondering if Luke is right and Vader can be saved or if Luke will die doing what he believes is right.

And besides, I wouldn't say that's the point of RotJ, I'd say the point is in returning Vader to the good side and setting things right. Thus Return of the Jedi.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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You can still worry about him if his got a decent amount of training and Yoda doesn't die with his job barely begun.

Yoda has lied to him, Ben has lied to him, they have both manipulated him but Ben more so (he wants him to kill his dad, the dad that offered him a half share of the galaxy).

You are bound to wonder if Luke isn't taking everything Ben now says with a pinch of space salt, Vader killed him for crying out loud, he could be pushing all that 'kill your dad' stuff just to get his own back.

And what about Leia?

Ben is a Jedi, he's been around horny teens, he must have known what Luke was thinking when he saw that hologram and he kept her identity to himself to the last minute.

If I was Luke I'd kick Ben's ghostly arse for that.

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You guys are all missing the big picture, as usual...

xhonzi's back, baby!

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 (Edited)

Lol nice one bingowings like the post...

Ok I re-cut Lapti-Nek.... Link below... Hope you like it, I tried to get rid of the close up dodgy puppet singer and make it work including some SE footage also. Short and sweet and I think it works ok.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ndfubkhrsa1m6ix

Let us know what you think for this idea...

@Ray_afraid... I'm gonna fix that Luke looks a bit unsure wait and see

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 (Edited)

It really bugs me when a film shows a band playing, but the sounds your hear are from different instruments. I know these aren't real instruments, but when it shows the two SE characters blowing horn-like instruments (0.23) with no sound to match it just makes it look silly. ...Then again, the bad cgi, rubber masks and horrible disco tune are already so silly that I guess you'd might as well go the whole 9 yards. Can't we just cut this out altogether?

(EDIT: this is concerning Jaitea's vid. Didn't download Ronsters)

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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ray_afraid said:

It really bugs me when a film shows a band playing, but the sounds your hear are from different instruments. I know these aren't real instruments, but when it shows the two SE characters blowing horn-like instruments with no sound to match it just makes it look silly. ... then again, the bad cgi, rubber masks and horrible disco tune are already so silly that I guess you'd might as well go the whole 9 yards. Can't we just cut this out altogether?

(EDIT: this is concerning Jaitea's vid. Didn't download Ronsters)

There just somthing really nostalgic about the scene for me so I will disagree with you... But I completly undrstand your reasons.... I prefer this to Max Rebo and the scene is good for somthing if not just a laugh

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timdiggerm said:

Isn't part of the point of ROTJ that you're supposed to worry about Luke? If you don't, there's no tension in the Emperor's offer.

Luke's dance on the dark side at the end of RotJ is so convincing to me... that had Anakin's been remotely like it- had we seen something very similar, but one thing had gone another way... it would have amped up the tension for RotJ.

I'm sure Anakin turned to the dark side because he started doing a few bad things (wearing black, kissing his sister) but was still doing them for a greater cause (saving the galaxy, sounding like a separatist) to the point that no one, not even himself, was that aware of how vulnerable to the seduction of the dark side he had become.

That is how you should worry about Luke in RotJ.  Luke's arc is like Orpheus- descending in to Hades to rescue a loved one without getting stuck there himself.  And Vader is struggling with whether he will let Luke save him (can he be saved?) or go through with converting him. 

When Luke lunges out at Vader and taps into the dark side long enough to defeat him, we shouldn't be too clear on who won the spiritual battle at that moment.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

Author
Time

Bingowings said:

You can still worry about him if his got a decent amount of training and Yoda doesn't die with his job barely begun.

Yoda has lied to him, Ben has lied to him, they have both manipulated him but Ben more so (he wants him to kill his dad, the dad that offered him a half share of the galaxy).

You are bound to wonder if Luke isn't taking everything Ben now says with a pinch of space salt, Vader killed him for crying out loud, he could be pushing all that 'kill your dad' stuff just to get his own back.

And what about Leia?

Ben is a Jedi, he's been around horny teens, he must have known what Luke was thinking when he saw that hologram and he kept her identity to himself to the last minute.

If I was Luke I'd kick Ben's ghostly arse for that.

LOL

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TV's Frink said:

You guys are all missing the big picture, as usual...

xhonzi's back, baby!

You're absolutely right, how could we have overlooked that?  Vive le roi!

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ray_afraid said:

It really bugs me when a film shows a band playing, but the sounds your hear are from different instruments. I know these aren't real instruments, but when it shows the two SE characters blowing horn-like instruments (0.23) with no sound to match it just makes it look silly. ...Then again, the bad cgi, rubber masks and horrible disco tune are already so silly that I guess you'd might as well go the whole 9 yards. Can't we just cut this out altogether?

(EDIT: this is concerning Jaitea's vid. Didn't download Ronsters)

I have to agree in general, though I haven't yet watched either vid.  I'll give them both a look and see if it works for me.  However, we did vote overall to remove most of that scene anyway, though things can still change.  I personally want it gone.