There was a pretty big internet outcry when the ROTJ "NOOOOOOO" was revealed. It's not a majority, but it is bigger than before.
according to bill hunt from digital bits, Lucas considered replacing ESB yoda with a CGI yoda.
I think something like that would have garnered a lot more attention among very casual fans.
I don't know how many more home video formats are left, but im sure one of these days he'll do something that will provoke a huge outcry across all types of fans.
I mean, can you honestly rule out Lucas re-editing Han Solo saying "I know"? maybe not while Ford is still with us. But if he wanted to replace Yoda, then anything is fair game.
Pretty much all reviews of the Blu-ray box I've read are stating that the original versions are not included, and that some of these more recent changes are indeed for the worse.
There may be TF.Net users that are in love with the "NOOOOO", but most professional reviewers seem to hate it. Despite high sales numbers, the bad press could be harmful in the long run. Especially when it comes to the 3D re-releases...
The numbers are good, but I think they could have been a little higher without the bad press. at least maybe enough for the fabled Star Wars Saga Box, the holy grail of blu-ray, to sell more copies than Bridesmaids.
Baronlando said:
The numbers are good, but I think they could have been a little higher without the bad press. at least maybe enough for the fabled Star Wars Saga Box, the holy grail of blu-ray, to sell more copies than Bridesmaids.
dang, rose byrne has bragging rights for the #1, #2 and #5 blu ray sales spots
"Stay on topic.....! Stay on topic...!"
FrederikOlsen said:
Pretty much all reviews of the Blu-ray box I've read are stating that the original versions are not included, and that some of these more recent changes are indeed for the worse.
There may be TF.Net users that are in love with the "NOOOOO", but most professional reviewers seem to hate it. Despite high sales numbers, the bad press could be harmful in the long run. Especially when it comes to the 3D re-releases...
Again, that may be, but it's still a question of how things stand financially. Unless this outcry causes BIG ripples, which we can only hope for.
“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”
Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death
Yeah. The outcry probably isn't going to change anything right now, but I'm not sure how the 3D versions will be received if some of these almost universally loathed changes stay in it.
Bear in mind that the Blu-ray box probably hasn't been very expensive to produce. The master has been sitting there since 2004, the deleted scenes seem to be unrestored scans, a lot of the SD bonus material is merely footage shot for the '04 docs. This was probably done on the cheap, making it very easy for this set to gain revenue.
However 3D conversion, theatrial promotion and such are all very costly. Sure, I can still imagine a lot of moviegoers going to watch these, but I can also imagine a lot of people choosing to pass it up because we'll inevitably see a lot of the current bad press reappear when these versions are released. It's actually a lot easier for the public to protest here. I'm sure the financial outcome of the 97SE theatrical release would have been different if more people had known back then that the originals were going to disappear completely.
I, for one, got the Blu-ray box, but I have no intention to go watch the saga in 3D.
FrederikOlsen said:
I'm not sure how the 3D versions will be received if some of these almost universally loathed changes stay in it.
"Hey, it's Star Wars in 3D!!!"
(Spaceballs the flamethrower)
You know of the rebellion against the Empire?
Could be. But I get the feeling that 3D is still somewhat controversial. I keep reading that some of the most hyped 3D films aren't really worth it after all. And then there's the matter of people who can't watch anything in 3D without getting headache and nausea. The latter issue means we may finally get to see people actually throwing up while watching TPM.
Hmm, I may just go see that one so I get to vomit in sympathy whenever Jar-Jar shows up.
I will never see a converted 3D re-release of a 2D film, on principle.
The only remotely good things that might come out of this are:
1.) LFL will probably have to do new scans of the OT in at least 4K in order to convert them to 3D;
2.) The original footage that was altered with CGI may need to be rescanned and recomposited from scratch for 3D (though alternately, they might just convert them using the digital files from '97/'04?);
3.) In order to convert any of the original visual effects to 3D, all of the original VistaVision effects elements will most likely have to be re-scanned, restored and recomposited;
4.) The 3D re-release may cause a serious fan backlash, and there is a (very slim) chance that Lucas and co. might end up being shamed and embarrassed into finally releasing the OUT in HD;
5.) If #4 happens, #1-#3 may ensure that there are high-resolution raw digital scans of the OT that can be used as the starting point for a restored/remastered HD OUT.
Preservation-wise, some good MIGHT come out of this whole 3D thing. (Emphasis on "might"; this is still Lucasfilm we're talking about, after all...)
TServo2049 said:
I will never see a converted 3D re-release of a 2D film, on principle.
The only remotely good things that might come out of this are:
1.) LFL will probably have to do new scans of the OT in at least 4K in order to convert them to 3D;
2.) The original footage that was altered with CGI may need to be rescanned and recomposited from scratch for 3D (though alternately, they might just convert them using the digital files from '97/'04?);
3.) In order to convert any of the original visual effects to 3D, all of the original VistaVision effects elements will most likely have to be re-scanned, restored and recomposited;
4.) The 3D re-release may cause a serious fan backlash, and there is a (very slim) chance that Lucas and co. might end up being shamed and embarrassed into finally releasing the OUT in HD;
5.) If #4 happens, #1-#3 may ensure that there are high-resolution raw digital scans of the OT that can be used as the starting point for a restored/remastered HD OUT.
Preservation-wise, some good MIGHT come out of this whole 3D thing. (Emphasis on "might"; this is still Lucasfilm we're talking about, after all...)
What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.
Mavimao said:
1) Uh no, they don't need to. Hell, they converted Ep2 to freakin' IMAX! They can use the 1080p masters with decent results.
2) Look at point 1. Point moot.
3) Practically all the effects were recomposited for the 97 re release.
4) Seeing the sales for the Blu Ray...fat chance. People will still go and watch these movies. Although, if anything, they might push George Lucas to release the original versions since there's really nothing left to scrape from the bottom of the barrel.
5) One can hope. After all, I don't think that Laserdisc masters are going to pass on bluray.
Either of our scenarios could happen - I guess I should have made it more clear what I meant when I said "this is Lucasfilm we're talking about." It was intended as a "but don't hold your breath" caveat.
I am fully aware that they could just churn out quick and dirty 3D conversions from the 1080P Blu-ray masters. I would not be a bit surprised if they did. But that would be a textbook example of "epic fail," since they already look awful as they are - can you imagine what they'd look like in fake 3D on a giant screen?
(And actually, I don't think that much of the final battle in Jedi was recomposited in '97 or in '04.)
I find it a little interesting that the theatrical versions of something as huge, popular, and impactful as the SW OT becoming lost films is closer to reality than one would think. Will film historians in a hundred years or so be searching for any surviving Technicolor print of Star Wars, and the best quality bits and chunks of ESB and ROTJ to put together? Hmm..
Since what's been done to THX-1138, I wonder how any future historians are going to sort it all out. We are on the third version of the SE's and now the second iteration of the prequels.
And if anyone who knows copyright law could chime in, how do the 2004 and 2011 changes not require an updated copyright? Besides the fact whoever did the new shots don't get any onscreen credits, there are credits for people whose contributions have been "deleted". (Clive Revill in Empire, and now the assistant Yoda puppeteers in Phantom Menace.) A new credit roll ought to be the easiest thing to change, and they don't do this.
Where were you in '77?
Silverwook wrote: how do the 2004 and 2011 changes not require an updated copyright?
My guess, going by what's been done, is because these are home video versions of a theatrical presentation, no one is complaining with enough clout yet. Only the 97SE updated the copyright date, so far. Like the times before the actors/labor unions, digital artists don't have an impact (yet) to get their contribution recognized. Probably in a few years they'll organize something and any form of release will tack on more credits. Another difference between the film version and home video version is where the copyright is located, the film it's in the film, the home video is on the box. Should it also be in the actual video, I would agree.
csl wrote: I find it a little interesting that the theatrical versions of something as huge, popular, and impactful as the SW OT becoming lost films is closer to reality than one would think.
Is there a more descriptive definition of 'lost film' in this case? Many people on this forum have lower quality bootleg copies which can be redistributed ad infinitum. So it's not lost as the silent era films are. Those are really gone. Using the lost film term on the SW case (can gain sympathy from a certain set) but I don't think it would be used to describe this case in preservation circles.
SilverWook said:
Besides the fact whoever did the new shots don't get any onscreen credits...
If it were me, I'd tell them to credit me as Alan Smithee >_<
This signature uses Markdown syntax, which makes it easy to add formatting like italics, bold, and lists:
IIRC, Mr. Smithee was retired once too many people became aware of his body of work. ;)
Not sure who has replaced him.
Where were you in '77?
SilverWook said:
IIRC, Mr. Smithee was retired once too many people became aware of his body of work. ;)
Not sure who has replaced him.
George Lucas
You know of the rebellion against the Empire?
George quit the DGA though. Smithee was an official alias for disgruntled directors. ;)
Where were you in '77?
This is a heavily pink shifted 35mm reel of SW being sold on ebay:
I am guessing that the library of congress print will be in roughly the same shape.
I saw Star Wars in 1977. Many, many, many times. For 3 years it was just Star Wars...period. I saw it in good theaters, cheap theaters and drive-ins with those clunky metal speakers you hang on your window. The screen and sound quality never subtracted from the excitement. I can watch the original cut right now, over 30 years later, on some beat up VHS tape and enjoy it. It's the story that makes this movie. Nothing? else.
http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=SkAZxd-5Hp8
Just why is he so tenacious about keeping these films under wraps?
Did he accidentally slip a map to his buried treasure into a single frame? If you play it backwards, does it reveal the recipe for the elixir of immortality?
What the hell is going on in this man's head?!
Isn't it obvious? He's not the real George Lucas but a replicant created and planted on Earth to help destroy our cultural heritage and replace it with a mind-numbingly awful facsimile full of subliminal messages designed to lower our will and make us less able to resist their planned invasion of our world.
*clap - clap - clap* All - hail - Hypno - George! *_*
That's a disturbing thought...
Where's Roddy Piper when we really need him? ;)
Where were you in '77?