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Mattessino's list of 70mm differences are also very trustworthy
Link please?
morgands1 said:
I can attest to the fact that shots of Leia, Han, etc., observing Luke in the medical center were not in the 1980 70mm version. I only saw those production stills taken on set after the film's run.
I believe what you say, and Mattessino's list of 70mm differences are also very trustworthy IMO, this guy apparently saw both versions of Empire in theatre about 70 times in 1980 and all his observations about the audio differences have since turned out to be true.
hairy_hen said:
Apparently most of the SE dialogue changes really were just revisionism,
Yeah, the mix was already perfect IMO, they just changed it for the sake of making it different it seems. One of the best things about the original mix that I think they totally destroyed with the SE-remix, are the subtleties in dialouge which makes the original sound so alive, take Yoda's teachings to Luke when he is on his back for example, where the surroundings intrude on the dialogue levels when they cut to R2, or when C-3PO on Chewie's back "I’m not supposed to know a power socket from a computer terminal" dial out in level as he is now further away from the action.
There are many examples like this in the original, but when it comes to the SE they just mixed the lines of dialogue at the same audable level no matter what happens on the screen. And the result is amatuerish and sound more like a bad dub in many instances. The only thing I like about the remix is the two intended musical transitions to the Imperial fleet.
hairy_hen said:
If msycamore says the length of the bacta tank scene is exactly the same, I believe him, because it certainly sounded that way to me. They must have simply edited the picture differently but kept it the same length.
I didn't make a truly exact comparison down to milliseconds though, just let the audio play over the GOUT video and it seemed to match up perfectly in lenght, so I guess the scene was just re-edited with the same audio supporting the scene.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
Mattessino's list of 70mm differences are also very trustworthy
Link please?
You can find his list of differences in my post here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-1977-70mm-sound-mix-recreation-stereo-and-51-versions-now-available/post/454341/#TopicPost454341
If you want me to upload the FSM magazine it originally appeared in, just give me a PM.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
Also posted 5 years prior to this by Neil S Bulk here (interestingly, with the same grammar error - "to close and small").
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Yeah, I may have copied Niel's old post when I did mine, but I think that grammar is in the original as well.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
A comment and a question:
"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars
A Best Guess Reconstruction version of the 70 mm seems a lot more plausible now. Thanks for sharing these margands1!
I don't have time to listen to these until tomorrow, but I'll be listening to them and comparing them to my list of differences.
Sluggo, you'll find that most of those differences do not apply to the 70mm version at all. While the 8mm versions may share some visual effects shots in common with it, very little of the alternate dialogue heard there or in the Story of ESB was actually used for the real thing. Also, a lot of the things on that list are observations about the SE mixes, and almost none of them apply either.
I completely agree with msycamore's assessment of the dialogue levels in the originals vs. the remix. Virtually every line is at the exact same level in the SE, even when it doesn't suit the position of the characters onscreen; while the older versions put a lot of effort into creating a realistic sound field with varying levels as appropriate for each shot. On top of that, you have utterly stupid things like Chewie letting a huge roar just as he is about the strangle Lando, completely drowning out part of Leia's dialogue in the SE, while neither original mix sounded this way at all. It's the kind of sloppy, misguided foolishness that comes from re-doing something that was already pretty much perfect to begin with, long after the reasons for why it was done a certain way the first time have been forgotten.
Interesting h_h. Thanks!
That's why this recording is so important, so we can rule out any internet rumors that have creeped into the lists over time.
After all:
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
- Where is this stereo 70mm Star Wars recording that was also described in the original post? Is it available for download somewhere?
The link was in the original post, but here it is again:
http://www.wideanglecloseup.com/starwarsaudio.html
Cheers,
morgands1
Thanks!!!
"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars
hairy_hen said:
I completely agree with msycamore's assessment of the dialogue levels in the originals vs. the remix. Virtually every line is at the exact same level in the SE, even when it doesn't suit the position of the characters onscreen; while the older versions put a lot of effort into creating a realistic sound field with varying levels as appropriate for each shot. On top of that, you have utterly stupid things like Chewie letting a huge roar just as he is about the strangle Lando, completely drowning out part of Leia's dialogue in the SE, while neither original mix sounded this way at all. It's the kind of sloppy, misguided foolishness that comes from re-doing something that was already pretty much perfect to begin with, long after the reasons for why it was done a certain way the first time have been forgotten.
Thanks for describing it a lot better than I did with my crude english. :)
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
Sluggo said:
So true Sluggo... so very true... ;)
Now that some time has gone since this wonderful recording surfaced, have anyone heard any other differences in terms of content compared to the 35mm Dolby Stereo other than these:
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
I listened to the recording pretty closely, and those were the only differences I could spot. Everything else about it sounds exactly the same as the 35mm version in terms of content.
Pretty surprising to me that the error in the cave scene was actually there originally. That and the laser sound during the battle are things that were fixed for the 35mm, because they seem to be actual mistakes. However, I don't know why the TIE fighter engine sound would have been removed.
The snowspeeder crash sound effect is definitely there, which makes its absence in the 1993 mix all the more confusing. I guess they forgot to put it into the 4-track master, but remembered by the time the theatrical stereo went out; but then in '93 they didn't notice that it was gone.
Am I the only one who thinks the 70mm version of the end scene actually plays better, in a way? It sounds odd to me on one level because I'm so used to how they changed it, but at the same time the line about finding Jabba the Hutt is unnecessary. Hmm . . .
hairy_hen said:
Am I the only one who thinks the 70mm version of the end scene actually plays better, in a way? It sounds odd to me on one level because I'm so used to how they changed it, but at the same time the line about finding Jabba the Hutt is unnecessary. Hmm . . .
You're not the only one, both in terms of music and rhythm it plays much better to me.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
hairy_hen said:
Pretty surprising to me that the error in the cave scene was actually there originally. That and the laser sound during the battle are things that were fixed for the 35mm, because they seem to be actual mistakes. However, I don't know why the TIE fighter engine sound would have been removed.
Yeah, I doubt you could actually see Luke deactivate his saber in the 70mm version but you never know. ;) The difference in those TIE engine sounds are a weird one, the 70mm mix sound so much better to me in this case, the familiar roar we're all used to hear, the TIE's in the 35mm mix sounds very weak and not at all how we're used to hear them.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
hairy_hen said:
Am I the only one who thinks the 70mm version of the end scene actually plays better, in a way? It sounds odd to me on one level because I'm so used to how they changed it, but at the same time the line about finding Jabba the Hutt is unnecessary. Hmm . . .
I definitely like it better. Anything with less music editing and over-explaining is okay by me.
Has anyone done or tried doing a GOUT synced 70mm ESB recording in 1 channel and either the the ESB Theatrical or 93 DC mix in the other as Belbucus did for the original Star Wars??
It was not brilliant quality but perfect for checking out those tiny differences. He did the same thing with ANH theatrical mono vs stereo which was simply brilliant!!
4 - 5 - 3 - 1 - 6 - 2
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I really hope that this version can resurface on the internet again! That is great that we have the audio from this version, so we can at least tell the differences from this version from the final cut.