TheBoost said:
Warbler said:
I find it interesting that despite the arguments made against me, no one has been able (even really tried) to refute the reasoning I used in post 273 or the reasoning used by C3PX in his email to me.
Warb said:
1. Whose claim is easier to prove? Dayv's claim that he has cancer or Shawn's claim that he does not? Dayv's claim. ... ... ... Just because you don't have cancer does not mean there are medical records that exist that prove you don't have Cancer. It is almost impossible for Shawn to prove his claim. Therefor, if we are to clear this up either way, the proof needs to come from Dayv.
This is a valid point about the difficulty of proving a negative. It follows that IF PROOF IS NEEDED, it would make sense for it to be a positive proof (even if Dayv is trying to decieve people, it's possible he has an undiagnosed cancer).
while it is possible the Dayv has an undiagnosed cancer, I don't think it has anything to do with this. If is undiagnosed, I doubt he'd know for sure that he had cancer. Also he claims he is being treated by doctors and has supposedly sent records, therefore, he is claiming that it was diagnosed.
However if he is lying now, and it turns out that he actually get cancer in the future and can concretely prove it, people might still be willing to help.
TheBoost said:
2. Who should have the most desire to clear this up? Dayv. ... ... ... Yet he delayed and delayed and delayed. Shawn's initial accusation came on 12/20/2010, Jay's post that Dayv sent him records came on 01/06/2011. That is a 17 day difference. That seems very strange to me. ... ... ... I'd be professing like crazy that I was innocent and I would probably demand that the accuser be banned. Dayv does not seem to be acting like I would in the same situation.
Now we enter a realm of emotional value judgements. Dayv "should" want to clear this up. "This is what I'd do."
I don't know Dayv, or have clue what his headspace is, but clearly the dude is in a very bad place, but not defending oneself fervently enough does not equal a confession of guilt.
sorry but this is bs.
if the man(assuming he is telling truth) doesn't get the needed donations, HE COULD DIE!
His LIFE could be on the line and his reputation here IS on the line. Any sane man would want to clear this up. I can't see one good logical rational reason to not want to have this cleared up.
TheBoost said:
In a fraud case, I beleive the burden of proof would be on Dayv, for the reasons you said in #1. His records might be supoenaed.
no, in an actual court case, Dayv would be the defendant. The burden of proof is always on the prosecutor. But this forum is not a court. If we find him guilty, here, he won't go to jail or pay a fine. He might get banned and his rep for be diminished. That is why do no need to go to the extreme of having evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
TheBoost said:
That being said:
- This is ultimately a case of a friend asking his friends for help. You're right that everyone has the right to decide for themselves how that transaction would go, but that applies to Dayv as well.
- Evidence has been provided. Is it convincing? I dunno. That's up to the person. You can dictate the conditions of your trust, but that too is up to Dayv if he's going to meet those conditions.
and it up to us to decide whether or not, him failing to meet those conditions means he's guilty.
TheBoost said:
Warbler, I can tell you're angry, and given the situation I for one agree your anger and frustration is perfectly justified. You started this thread with only the best of intentions, and it's all kinda gone to hell. I think your requests are reasonable, but ultimately this is a take-it-or-leave-it situation. You can't pressure Dayv into doing what you want, this is just a message board. If other people are content with this situation, that's between them and their conciences.
1. I shouldn't have to pressure Dayv at all. His life and his rep here should be pressure enough
2. If other people want to believe and/or trust him that is fine. But it is not fine to vilify me and treat me as though I'm the leader of lynch mob. It is not fine to tell me to drop it and move on. Let me decide if I want to drop it or not. The only ones here that can tell me drop it is Jay and Moth3r, and they can only control what I do on this forum itself.
You are right Boost, am angry. I was friends with Dayv along time. I clashed swords with Jay and left this forum because of him. I still considered him a friend after he was accused of stealing from Boon. I put him in second in command of my own forum when I had one. I forgave him for banning me from it. Then I came to his forum. I claimed back then to be sick and I gave him money. I believe I gave him money again to help him pay for Christmas presents for his kids. Both times I was still am out of work. Shawn and I had fights. A polled was created it resulted in me getting banned for his forum. He said the poll was honestly run, I then find out that it was rigged. He could have been honest about the situation. I know he was more of a friend with Shawn and Shawn was paying him along to keep the website running. I know there was no way Shawn was going to get banned. But it would have been nice if Dayv had been more honest about what happened instead of rigging a poll and making a fool of me. I know Shawn was his friend, but so was I. If I had 2 friends and one was picking on and bullying the other, I'd stand up to the one that was bullying. I would let one friend do to the other what Shawn did to me. Even after all that, I still forgave him, somewhat. In November he said he had cancer and needed help. Even after all that happened, I was willing to help. I created the thread. Even so, I felt guilty because I couldn't give money. I didn't and still don't have any money give, because I'm broke. After he said he had cancer, I was very worried about him. I was praying for him. I had people in my church praying for him. He asks me to ask Jay to send out a mass email. Which I do no problem. When he said his car got stolen, I was very angry with God for letting so much happen to one person. Then, HIS BEST FRIEND came on here and said he suspected fraud because Dayv never told him about the cancer, never told his ex, and never posted on his own forum asking for donations. Also the car thing turns out to be a lie It takes Dayv 16 days come up with some kind of evidence and it is not convincing, and because of all the delay and stubbornness in not getting concrete evidence, I get more a more suspicious. Then I get vilified and accused of leading a lynch mob. So yeah, I am angry.