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A Collaborative Star Wars Saga Edit — Page 5

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RogueLeader said:

That’s very cool! I have had two ideas on Dooku within the films. I always felt it would be interesting to have him be on the Jedi Council (preferably replace him with Yaddle), even if he doesn’t say anything.

Excellent idea ! Someone was working on an edit that implements Dooku in TPM, observing Qui-Gon funerals from a distant spot and looking angry about the situation. If you add him during the previous Jedi Council scenes (with the possibility to get a close up on him and a montage to make Qui-Gon and him nodding at each other, somehow) it would just be perfect. Had the PT got a “master plan”, Lucas would have thought about it himself 😉

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My thoughts on each line Rogue:

“Come here, my little friend.”
If it cannot be done in a seamless way, I would just leave it. As my comments go this could end up being the “Obi being coy” reasoning.

“I haven’t gone by the name Obi-Wan since, oh, before you were born.”
I had a sudden thought on this. We know Obi Wan is “manipulating” Luke for his Destiny to train as a Jedi and eventually confront Vader, etc. If he did say something on the lines " … since you were born," I would think if I was Luke, that would be odd. Why would a person go by a different name since I was born? I would be curious and ask. So by Obi wan saying before he was born, that could help Obi wan avoid explaining this. That’s just my thought at the moment. Again, Obi being a liar again…

“I never seem to remember owning a droid”
Jedi’s did not have much possessions, basically their clothes and their lightsaber. So Obi wan was telling the truth, he did not own a droid. That line is fine for me.

“He [Owen] feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some dan fool idealistic crusade, like your father did.”
Yep, just another straight up lie again. Again, part of manipulation. Luke does not know much about his father, and we know Owen probably gave vague answers or did not want to talk about it. So by adding these bits of lies about his father, it again manipulates Luke to following Obi Wan.

“Now, let’s see if we can figure out what you are, my little friend, and where you come from.”
All part of his coy-ness with Luke. The look Obi gave to R2 says it all that they are all “in the know” about keeping things from Luke.

I too favor the manipulating side for Obi Wan. Luke is the only hope, he has to have Luke involved, by whatever means necessary.

Your edit on the “Wanted you to have this” works perfectly well. Keep the manipulation going. Also, deep down, the Anakin he knew would have given him his/a lightsaber if he did not go to the Dark Side.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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MalàStrana said:

Excellent idea ! Someone was working on an edit that implements Dooku in TPM, observing Qui-Gon funerals from a distant spot and looking angry about the situation. If you add him during the previous Jedi Council scenes (with the possibility to get a close up on him and a montage to make Qui-Gon and him nodding at each other, somehow) it would just be perfect. Had the PT got a “master plan”, Lucas would have thought about it himself 😉

I think it was Sheepish, right? I know he made a version where Dooku was at his funeral (from a distance) and walked away. I just really don’t care for Yaddle, so even if we just saw Dooku and no focus was put on him (save for maybe a close up) I wouldn’t mind. Maybe a good moment for a close up would be when Qui-Gon says that they encounter a Sith Lord, or after Windu says something about finding the indenting of their attacker. I kind of think it would be nice if he could have one line, since it would just be weird to cut to a close up of a random Jedi, but I think an inquisitive or surprised look from him after Qui-Gon first mentions the Sith wouldn’t be too out of place. The only bad thing is you would have to add him to every Council scene, which could be a real pain.

Imhotep said:

The deception plot with Obi-Wan is fine with me, I think if we trim the odd bit or inconsistency, like not knowing R2 and the “point of view” bit then it should be okay. Manipulating Luke to kill his father is a bit extreme, but the stakes are high, and I think Yoda and Obi-Wan would’ve told Luke eventually, if he hadn’t run off in ep5 before his training was complete.

I agree that they would’ve told him the truth eventually. I like to think that the main reason they couldn’t tell Luke is because if he knew, he couldn’t “hide” that knowledge in his mind, and Vader or the Emperor would immediately sense it if they ever encountered him. ROTJ proves that with Leia. Luke is a Jedi, and he still couldn’t hide the truth from Vader that he had a twin sister.

I personally think both R2 and 3PO should be given memory wipes at the end of ROTS. To me, it just raises a lot of questions, and changing it solves a lot of them since we don’t have to ask, “Well why didn’t R2 tell Luke this or that?” Though you could argue R2 doesn’t know Anakin is Vader, he probably doesn’t, and he might have initially thought Luke was Owen and Beru’s kid. ROTS doesn’t really tell us if R2 knew where they were taking Padme’s other child.

Actually now that I think of it, R2 was there when she gave birth to the twins, and she named them. So R2 would have known their names, so he should have known who Luke was as soon as he met him. I mean, they had C3PO’s memory wiped because of what he knew, so why wouldn’t they do the same to R2?

Logically, I don’t know why Bail really wouldn’t wipe both their memories just to be safe. Did he just trust R2 with that information, he’s not as talkative as 3PO? Anyone could just take him apart and download his memories.

And even R2 didn’t know Anakin was Vader, wouldn’t R2 know that Obi-Wan didn’t have another pupil besides Anakin? And he knew who Yoda was, so why didn’t he just tell Luke THAT was Yoda?

See? It just raises a lot of questions. Sure, you could explain it off and say R2 just felt it wasn’t his place as a droid to reveal this information to Luke, but R2’s actions make a lot more sense if you assume R2 doesn’t know anything, and it would also explain why Obi-Wan wouldn’t say anything to R2 or 3PO, because what’s the point? They don’t remember him.

I think the big reason they didn’t have R2’s memories wiped because there’s this idea that all of these movies are stories that R2 has told to a Keeper of the Journal of the Whills, so R2 has to remember everything. But there are ways to restore deleted information on a computer, right? They could’ve just explained R2 getting his memories back somehow after the end of the OT or something. I would’ve been okay with that. I know I’m overthinking this, and this stuff really doesn’t bother me. I’m just trying to logic my way through these kind of questions and determine how they should be handled. Yeah, the new canon can hand wave these things, but the point of the edits we make is to try and make edits to the saga that improve continuity, and these kind of issues just make the continuity more convoluted.

I also think people would rather keep changes to the OT, or at least Star Wars and Empire, to a minimum. So I think we can help lessen those changes by focusing on fixing these continuity issues by making changes to the prequels and Return of the Jedi.

Looking forward to seeing your take on those scenes Imhotep!

Jarbear, I like your thought on the “before you were born” line. That’s a good point. I think I agree with you. Though it would be interesting to see how an edit of that line would look just to have it as a resource, if it is seamless.

Personally still on the fence about the “owning a droid” bit, while true (you could just never have him refer to R4 by name to help that), if he knew that was R2, he would know that he didn’t own him. The way he says it now is like, “Did I own this droid? Twenty years was so long ago.” He could acting coy, but what’s the point?

Maybe he is worried if he just denied owning a droid, Luke would just take him back to the homestead. It’s like he’s saying “I don’t think I owned this droid, but let’s go back to my house and double check just in case.”
I think that makes sense. Would also like to see an edit of this line though just to see if it is seamless and to have it just in case.

I do think at least having “I wanted you to have this” could still work. It really is the main one that I feel is a flat out lie, even if his father hypothetically would have wanted him to have it (he doesn’t “would have wanted” either, just wanted, like Anakin at some point said as much). Even the Vader lie could be true, metaphorically I guess. Certain point of view. And Obi-Wan saying, “I wanted you to have this-“ hints at Obi-Wan’s motivation as well. I think it is worth discussing still.

It’ll be interesting to tackle the ROTJ Dagobah sequence with this angle. I like your thoughts on this Imhotep!

Thanks for sharing all of your thoughts Imhotep and Jarbear. I think even if we go back and forth on ideas, it helps us be more sure of why we do or don’t make a change. The discussion is important, and fun!

I would really love any more opinions on Obi-Wan, R2 and these lines as well if anyone has any!

A little off topic, but I also found some audio of James Earl Jones saying “your” and “mother” in the Bible audio books.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSGFmVsI6Uk&index=5&list=PL0l0DjlwvRA4Kg2ipRKwfCZY4c7JF3G-a

Instances of “mother”
18:32
18:51
22:08
22:10
22:16
22:22

I think the latter lines around 22 minutes might be better because it is a repitition of the whole “honor your father and mother” bit, so the ‘mother’ might fit better with the ‘your’. The only thing I’m worried about is his tone and pace might not fit with the rest of the line.

I don’t think one would need to recreate ambience and music for the scene, either. Vader has a long pause before he says “Obi-Wan once thought as you do.” So you could just cut ‘Obi-Wan’ and insert ‘your mother’ a little earlier during that pause. If anyone would like to have a go at making JEJ’s voice sound like Vader, and/or inserting it into that scene, I’d love to see it!

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Rogueleader, I always appreciate you thinking about all the details!

Here is another “argument” with the whole R2 Thing. I think R2 is definitely a more reliable droid… Personally I think he knows when to or not to “talk.” That could be “explained” that R2’S Memory in ROTS was not wiped compared to C3PO (Who is clearly shown in the OT to be a blabbermouth.) My thought at the moment comes from two reasons: 1.) He knows what not to share or not to share as I mentioned (Of course I cannot show exact proof at the moment) but 2.) (better argument) People do not know how to understand astromech droids from their beeps, noises, etc. I say this since the only times astromechs language is understood is through C-3PO or is translated from a ship. (for example in ESB Luke “understands” r2 through the X-Wing since there is a language translator displayed)

So, one COULD argue that R2 either knows NOT to explain or reveal things … or he never “spoke” about what he knows in front of C-3PO so it could be translated. Even if he DOES NOT play the “reliable” role in not “keeping” quite in things, he clearly in Episode IV does not explain or reveal things in front of C3PO and crew.

Lastly, I think I agree again about using the “your mother” over “Obi-Wan” will work. Character wise for Vader it works since CLEARLY Obi-Wan dismisses the “Anikan” in Vader. I think it can be done well with that media you showed. It always Jives well with Vader’s character during that time since he is still “divorcing” himself with Anikan Skywalker at that time. Obviously the more he is with Luke the more that “wall” begins to crumble.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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I do feel those are solid points, but I think there is still some disconnect. I think those are logical reasons why they could trust R2 and not wipe his memory, it is all only assumption, really. We have to assume this stuff rather than the story telling or showing us that. So to me, I feel like R2 should either be in on it or he isn’t.

Let me suggest four options, in this case:

Option #1) Have R2’s memory also be wiped in the end of ROTS. He can’t say anything because he doesn’t remember anything.

Option #2) Have R2 be in the room with Obi-Wan, Yoda and Bail when they discuss their plans for Luke and Leia. He doesn’t say anything because he is aware of the plan and knows not to say anything.

Option #3) Remove R2 from Padme’s birth scene. In this case he at least would not know Leia and Luke are brother and sister. He doesn’t even initially know Padme had children. He probably doesn’t know Anakin is Vader so this is arguably the biggest secret R2 keeps.

Option #4) Leave it as is. Maybe he either thinks there is nothing worth saying or he thinks it’s not his place to say anything.

I don’t want to change things just to change things, but if we can make changes that help create a more consistent, self-contained story, then I would like to do that. Another way I like to see is that I would like to make it where you can watch all nine movies and not be left with too many questions, like who was Sifo-Dyas, why didn’t R2 ever mention what he knew, how does Leia remember her mother, etc.

If anyone is in favor of a certain option I would love to hear it!

Regarding Obi-Wan, another line I forgot to mention was, “He [Owen] didn’t agree with your father’s ideals, thought he should have stayed and not gotten involved.” I don’t really think this is a big deal, it is either a part of Obi-Wan’s lie or he could be again quoting Owen’s own assumptions based on the brief time he knew Anakin.

Two more things, another edit I would be interested to see people’s takes on is Luke & Leia’s conversation about their mother(s) in ROTJ. I know some editor’s on here have already tackled it, other’s haven’t, but I think it would be cool to see people’s interpretations on how it should be altered. If Padme dies in 3, I think most people agree that something should be done with that scene.

Finally, I’ve created a small wav file of JEJ saying “your mother”. I attempted to alter the audio to sound like Vader, but I wasn’t sold on it. I’m also worried about him saying it too quickly, but may it could be slowed down? If someone would like to have a go at it, feel free to.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XsiK4YZI8ae5oUK52R7L8wBxp7ecDQQX

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RogueLeader said:

That’s very cool! I have had two ideas on Dooku within the films. I always felt it would be interesting to have him be on the Jedi Council (preferably replace him with Yaddle), even if he doesn’t say anything.

Another idea was to still have him be a Sith Lord, but have him still use a blue or green lightsaber. The idea being that by posing as a rogue Jedi, he is hurting the Jedi’s reputation, and Palpatine could even argue that the Jedi were the one’s who set up the war in order to take control of the Republic. But that’s basically what already happened because I don’t think the public recognized him as a Sith Lord. I don’t even know if the public knows who the Sith are, so lightsaber color would be kind of arbitrary, and it would also make it unwatchable with the Clone Wars unless you edited them as well.

And thanks for the feedback guys, I’m glad you like it.

How about his lightsaber is a different color each film as he falls deeper into the Dark Side? In TPM, it’s green, in AotC, it’s yellow, and in RotS, it’s red. This would also avoid continuity issues with the CW, since you and I care about that.

As for putting him on the Council, that doesn’t really mesh with his background as a rebellious Jedi. After, he was Qui-Gon’s master, and Obi-Wan tells Qui-Gon that if he didn’t clash so much with the Council, he’d be on it. I’d imagine it was a similar situation with Dooku. Leaving the Order is the next logical step.

I am in favor of replacing Yaddle, though. I think Yoda should remain the only member of his species we ever see. It augments his mystery.

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Well, even if Dooku were to be in TPM, I don’t see where/why you would see the color of Dooku’s lightsaber in the first film. But, him having a blue/green saber in AOTC and then having a red in ROTS is an interesting idea. The new canon has established that Sith have to kill a Jedi and take their lightsabers to get their red crystals, so it would make sense that he may not have had a chance to do so until the Clone Wars. But him having a new saber in III might raise more questions, and doubt there will be much agreement on what color he should even have if one were to change it in AOTC.

I had thought about too. Though I also could see how someone on the Council could begin to truly see the failings of it more than most. Especially after he personally witnessed the Council failing to take the Sith threat seriously, resulting in his old apprentice’s death. I also feel that would be the most natural place for him to be, because I think him appearing anywhere else would either be too difficult or just raise more questions within the film. He’d just be a cameo, we don’t need to know who he is or what is important about him and it won’t raise any questions within the context of TPM, but it’ll out a little something that goes towards the plot of AOTC in a retrospective way. Then again, Dooku laments in AOTC about having never crossed paths with Obi before, so you would have to change that. I don’t know, I just think if there isn’t a natural way to insert him into the Council, then he shouldn’t be in TPM at all.

And if we were to swap Yaddle with another Jedi, why not Dooku? It would serve the story and be an interesting cameo, more so than any other Jedi. I just think it would be difficult to really do. I’m not sure if anyone on here has the technical skills to make such a change, either.

While I do think this is an interesting discussion and be up for consideration since it would add connectivity to the films, I also don’t think it is the most crucial change either. While it could be a nice connection, it isn’t necessarily resolving a previous issue, just improving the connectivity. Here are some other changes I think that would be useful, but would require some vfx work.

  1. Why is the tech level so different from OT? / I think it would be interesting to overlay more retro ship displays over the current ones in the prequel films to help alleviate the tech difference between trilogies. I think nicer looking ships are fine, but even in the sequel trilogy, the ships interfaces are more retro. I’m not very familiar with motion graphics myself but I think this would be a good way to learn too.

  2. Why was it never explained why Jedi Master “Sifo-Dyas” ordered the clone army? / Some effects may be necessary to alter the Prime Minister of Kamino’s mouth movement to help sell this.

  3. If Chewbacca always knew the Jedi were real, why didn’t he ever tell Han? / I think Chewbecca should either be photoshopped out of his ROTS scenes, or be recolored to imply he is a different wookie. I think someone like paja would be capable of this if he was interested. Maybe we could change him to a “silver” wookie? wink wink

  4. Why does Yoda run away from his fight with Palpatine? / It always kind of bothered me how it seemed like Yoda just sort of gave up in their fight. If we keep it, I think it would be nice to hear (or see) clones entering the senate chamber, maybe see some blaster shots or even hear Yoda break some bones when he falls.

  5. What’s up with Anakin’s yellow Sith eyes? Why does Anakin momentarily get them but we don’t see Dooku, Luke when he almost killed Vader, or Kylo Ren ever have them? / I suggest just changing his eyes back to their normal color.

  6. Why does the Death Star take so long to build?/ Since Rogue One established that the dish was one of the last pieces placed on the Death Star, maybe the DS at the end of ROTS could have its dish at the equator to infer it is a prototype, or replace it with a different early DS design (maybe just the circular frame without a dish)

  7. Why does Anakin’s lightsaber seem to change color between the movies? / Decide on a consistent hue for the saber and maintain in within each film.

  8. Why does Kylo Ren’s scar look so different than it did at the end of TFA? / Ridley is handling this with his edit.

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Ah you’re right about R2 RogueLeader, I hadn’t considered that. Yeah, as far as R2 knows Obi-Wan killed Anakin. It would be simpler if Bail mind wiped both droids, maybe the line in ep3 could be cut to “have the | droid’s mind wiped”. That scene always seemed off to me, and I think it’s because of the all the problems you mention. It’s a bit sad for R2 but makes sense, and there’s no reason why R2 couldn’t recover some of the data, or store it in an internal backup or something. Adding this also makes the later Rebels treatment of droids more interesting, presumably Leia or Luke never memory wiped R2 or 3PO, and Poe will never memory wipe BB8, so this shows a stronger difference between the heroes of the PT (specifically Padme, Bail, and Mon Mothma) to the OT and ST. Here’s a demo of the cut: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1BI31_EiMWySxUqzQ3BscwFxwLo8NmuWv would probably need to change the beeps so that it doesn’t sound like R2 is laughing.

On Sifo-Dyas in Obi-Wan’s detective subplot, my view is that Dooku and the Separatists are a red herring for this subplot, as Jango and Sifo-Dyas are the leads that the Jedi needed to track down (but Windu kills Jango so there’s that). In some ways I think removing the line where the President of Kamino says that the army was (specifically intended by Sifo-Dyas) for the Republic improves things here, as it makes Sifo-Dyas’ intentions unknown, and so makes his prior death simply a lead that wasn’t followed up on. About the scene itself, although it’s IMO one of the worst uses of CGI in the PT, I find that Obi-Wan’s dialogue is mostly fine, as he’s in a sort of undercover detective mode here, which could explain why he didn’t ask more prying questions about Sifo-Dyas. The dialogue scene between Jango and Obi-Wan could also be trimmed, depending on our views on Darth Tyranus.

With Chewbacca in ep3, it could be an idea to wait until the Solo film is out, as it will be interesting to see if they add any details about Chewbacca’s backstory there. One of the main things indicating that it’s Chewbacca is the bandoleer, so maybe it would be enough to remove that? Though I’m all for making him a silver Wookiee if it can be done well. For me the problem isn’t that Chewbacca is in ep3, what bothers me is that it seems like he’s best friends with Yoda, which is a ridiculous coincidence.

Also, on PT lightsaber colours, it’s not really an obvious contradiction (it could maybe be considered a thematic contradiction) but I’m opposed to Anakin using a green lightsaber in ep2 (even if it’s not his personal saber). My view is that, between Anakin and Luke, only Luke should use a green saber, because to me it represents the fulfillment of Luke’s character as a new hope and as the return of the Jedi in the OT. So I’d have it as Anakin transitioning from blue to red, and Luke transitioning from blue to green (will be interesting to see what colour Rey’s saber is in ep9). What are people’s thoughts on changing Anakin’s temporary lightsaber in this way? I’m obviously for it, but it might not be worth the work required.

About the Ewok’s in the ep6 final battle, the overly cute or silly battle scenes can be cut easily enough, it’s just a question of which shots we want to remove. Also, as Adywan is likely cooking up some interesting shots for the final battle, it may be best to wait and see what he comes up with before cutting into this part of ep6.

Here are links to some relevant cuts. I’d made these for myself anyway, so thought I’d organise them and post the relevant bits here. Some of the cuts need work (particularly on the audio side), but they should give an idea of what they’re about. Not all of the cuts may end up being relevant for this project, but it’ll be interesting to hear what you all think of them regardless. Here’s a link to the folder with all the demo scenes: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gHgVquApxRDBhGCbtOA3qKPriJHvc7ME

OT, incest subplot:

OT, Obi-Wan deception plot:

  • ep4, “I never seem to remember owning a droid” has been cut, I couldn’t figure out a seamless way to trim the “I haven’t gone by the name of Obi-Wan since oh, before you were born” line so have left it as is: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wdB5l8eKfChkhVyWESpDI2ymUUCYTJgB
  • ep4, “He [Owen] feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade, like your father did", cut “like your father did”: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zPBkXtLBnnJNk5VYTGbwiqXtgx3c07t6
  • ep4, “Now, let’s see if we can figure out what you are, my little friend, and where you come from”, the words “what you are / and” have been cut: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IT09tdxP_8fzsPoeIw1_iy0g9dVUSi1S
  • ep6, Dagobah sequence, I’ve uploaded the almost all of the sequence on Dagobah, as some of Yoda’s lines were also cut: https://drive.google.com/open?id=15uDS2HzWB47VaESu83RlvU6v5yuGcmwl Yoda doesn’t mention another Skywalker, so Obi-Wan tells Luke about Leia without being prompted. Here, the following lines have been cut, “Obi-Wan: ‘Then the Emperor has already won, you were are only hope.’ Luke: Yoda spoke of another?’ Obi-Wan: ‘The other he spoke of is your twin sister.’ Luke: ‘But I have no sister.’” Obi-Wan’s infamous “point of view” bit has been trimmed, and now reads as “…he ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader, when that happened the good man who was your father was destroyed. (Here the lines “Obi-Wan: ‘So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view.’ Luke: ‘A certain point of view?’” have been cut) You’re going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. So what I told you was true (this line has been moved here from the cut section). When I first knew him…” Here I have attempted to portray Obi-Wan as saying all truths exist from a particular point of view, not what I said was true from a particular point of view. Hopefully Obi-Wan seems more dejected about how things turned out with Vader, and isn’t trying to avoid responsibility for having deceived Luke.

Ep6 scenes:

ST, clone stormtrooper retcon:

Ep8 scene:

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Here I’ve listed each proposed question asked on the first page and attempted to find a solution for each as well as offer some of my ideas I’ve come up with, I love discussing this stuff so this won’t be short, so bare with me younglings you’ve all really got me thinking hard here

Why does Obi-Wan say Yoda is the Jedi Master who trained him when that was clearly Qui-Gon Jinn? lines in question from ESB: “There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me.” and “Was I any different when you taught me?”

Hmm as many have suggested the line could be altered to say “A Jedi Master who instructed me” or even “The last Jedi Master who instructed me” because Yoda does say he has special training for Obi-Wan while he’s in exile (I always assumed this was learning how to become a force ghost) technically Yoda did teach him a few things but the original line makes it sound like Yoda was Obi-Wans only master

Why do Jedi wear Tatooine robes ?

I never thought about this one, the Jedi are simple folk like monks so I don’t think it would be such a stretch if they were wearing clothes similar to people living in poverty

Why is the tech level so different from OT ?

Only Lucas truly knows, but I do recall him saying on an interview that it’s the same reason why the lightsaber fights are choreographed differently simply because it was a more civilized age, the Jedi were at their height and the galaxy was a better place before the Empire. Basically everything went downhill after Palpatine took over, ships and technology were all mass produced.

Does the Rule of Two contradict contradict the Emperor and Vader trying to recruit Luke in ESB and ROTJ ?

I’m pretty sure Palpatine’s plan from the start was to turn Luke have him kill Vader and become his new and only apprentice , if his plan worked it would only be him and Luke in the end so a master and apprentice, he clearly wants Luke to kill Vader “fulfill your destiny and take your fathers place at my side”

Why is Mace Windu the only Jedi with a purple lightsaber ?

We all know the real world reason but, his saber color could always be changed or as suggested give other Jedi purple sabers to make it stand out less my personal idea would be specifically changing Agen Kolar, Saesee Tiin and Kit Fisto’s sabers to purple to match Windu’s throughout their appearances (Like during the battle of Geonosis, if they are seen I don’t remember, its been a while) that way when they all show up with Mace to arrest Palpatine they all have purple sort of like they’re a specific group of Jedi that Windu leads, perhaps they’re all in the same Jedi class as him or at least on his level

Why was it never explained why Jedi Master “Sifo-Dyas” ordered the clone army ?

I never thought of that one much personally maybe that could be cut out completely and have it left ambiguous who ordered the army, maybe Dooku under Palpatine’s orders

Why does Count Dooku just tell Obi-Wan the Sith’s strategy for undermining the Senate ?

Maybe Dooku really wanted to try and turn Obi-Wan out of respect for Qui-Gon and when he realized he couldn’t he figured that he’d be killed along with Anakin and Padme in the arena thus preserving the secret

If Chewbacca always knew the Jedi were real, why didn’t he ever tell Han ?

To me this one is just a plot hole no one thought about, clearly Chewie was added in because he’s an iconic character, many suggested he be recolored and I think it would work or you could try to cut around him and just have Yoda only refer to Tarful by name

Why does Yoda run away from his fight with Palpatine ?

This always felt to me like he knew that the Jedi were outnumbered and couldn’t win at this point so rather than stay and possibly cause more harm to himself or possibly be beaten he got out while he could to meet up with Obi-Wan and Bail to decide what to do with the twins and plan for him and Obi-Wan to go into hiding until the time was right

Why does the Death Star take so long to build ?

Who really knows, maybe it took a lot longer than they anticipated, maybe Galen Erso was sabotaging it all along before adding in that one final flaw or maybe we could just not have it show up at the end and replace it with a planet instead like someone did already in one edit (don’t remember exactly who did, Hal perhaps ?)

What’s up with Anakin’s yellow Sith eyes? Why does Anakin momentarily get them but we don’t see Dooku, Luke when he almost killed Vader, or Kylo Ren ever have them?

The most likely reason is that Lucasfilm wanted the audience to know that Anakin was truly gone at that point and no longer the boy/man we’ve come to know from TPM & AOTC, I guess you could argue that Dooku isn’t really a Sith (thought palpatine does call him a sith lord) but rather a fallen Jedi as for Kylo I’d be ok with saying that he’s technically not a Sith either or at least not fully, sure he’s turned to the dark side but he’s still conflicted. If someone wanted to be clever I could see Dooku and Kylo getting Sith eyes at some point maybe have Dooku with them from the get go and have Kylo get them when he kills Han or just cut Palpatine saying “he’s a Sith lord” and recolor or cut Anakin’s in that shot or shots, though I do prefer him getting them during or after order 66, Dooku always having them and Kylo getting them after killing Han

How exactly is Leia a princess ?

I was always under the impression that Bail and his wife were some kind of royalty, are they not ?

Why didn’t the Imperials just shoot the escape pod ?

IDK lol they didn’t want to waste ammo shooting something that had no life signs present ??

Why’d they hide Luke on Vader’s home planet and even have him keep the Skywalker name ?

It’s a pretty safe bet that Vader or the Empire would never look for him there (Especially Vader because he hates that planet, plus he and Palpatine think that the baby is dead along with Padme) as for the last name part, I don’t think the film makers really thought of this one maybe Skywalker isn’t that uncommon of a name plus Tatooine is a backwater planet filled with scum and villainy, what purpose would the empire have for going there anyway, they never show up there until they realize that 3PO and R2 landed there

Why does 3PO mention the princess on board Tantive IV, then doesn’t know about the princess when he is with Luke ? / Ady handled this in original Revisited by removing 3PO’s first line on ship. He reinserted it in the Purist edition though.

Plot hole, probably just an oversite or perhaps 3PO isn’t as big of a blabber mouth as we thought I’d say Ady had the right idea cutting the line, maybe if anyone wanted to keep the line they could change it to “They’ll be no escape this time” or “They’ll be no escape for us this time”

Why doesn’t R2 tell Luke anything about the past ?

I always thought of R2 as the more responsible of the pair, he doesn’t want to tell Luke anything to begin with, in fact he doesn’t want to show him Leia’s message in the first place it plays by accident and he denies that there was ever a message 3PO says to him “What message ? the one you just played, its ok R2 you can trust him he’s our new master” as for him not telling him anything after or during ESB or ROTJ I think that’s going way to far into it lol

Why did Obi-Wan age so much between trilogies ?

I don’t think there is a real answer to this one I’d just try to look past this one, maybe training to be a force ghost takes a lot out of you, or maybe the Obi-Wan movie(s) sill tell us if they ever come out

Why didn’t Obi-Wan change his last name (Ben Kenobi) while in exile ?

I guess the same reason why they didn’t change Luke’s last name, I don’t think the Empire is searching for him or Yoda after order 66 plus Tatooine is in the outer rim and obviously nobody there has ever heard of an Obi-Wan Kenobi or cares at least, to them he’s just an old hermit and a crazy wizard

Why doesn’t Obi-Wan remember R2 or 3PO ?

I always liked to think he did but just like everything else he told Luke about, he was very vague hes clearly in shock looking at R2 when Luke says “He says he belongs to an Obi-Wan Kenobi, is he a relative of yours” ?

“Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough…”

Another plot hole but can easily be fixed as per the other suggestions on the forum, I personally like “I wanted you to have this when you were old enough” or “Your father would have wanted you to have this when you were old enough”

Why did the Death Star need to travel around the moon to destroy the rebel base? Couldn’t it just blow it up ?

I think its subtle enough to just leave it alone or you can assume Tarkin is a sicko and wanted Leia to have a good view of her home being destroyed, maybe they were aiming right at the capitol where daddy Organa was chillin out

Are stormtroopers clones ?

I’d say yes but they clearly were never meant to be until AOTC came along because they all sound different, can we give them all Jango’s voice lol maybe redub all the troopers in the prequels with different voices ? maybe they can all look, like Jango physically but each sound different for some kind of individuality ?

How did Luke get around the blockade of Hoth ?

Got me there, used the force maybe ? tried spinning that’s a good trick ?
Why does the Empire only disable the Millennium Falcon hyperdrive and not the whole ship ?
I don’t think there is a definitive answer to this one, honestly id just forget that fact all together the empire is really dumb sometimes after all

Luke became a Jedi by training with Yoda for only a few days ?

Remember his training wasn’t complete when he rushed to face Vader in ESB, Yoda says this in ROTJ I personally always thought it had been longer but Snooker had the best idea imo in putting that he had been training with Yoda in the crawl of ROTJ or that he had just finished his training and is on his way to Tatooine to help rescue Han

Why does Obi-Wan call Luke their “last hope” in ESB if he knows about Leia ?

To inspire Luke maybe, more deception or points of view perhaps ? maybe because Leia isn’t a Jedi and probably has no chance against Vader or the Emperor alone unless she trains and Luke has trained and at least stands a better chance

Where did the second Death Star come from? How did they build it so fast ?

I love the ideas presented that there was only one Death Star and they are repairing it in ROTJ or once again Snookers excellent idea of there not being a Death Star at all rather a huge Star Destroyer as the weapon also serving as the Emperor’s personal ship/base

What was Luke’s plan to save Han ?

Was there ever a plan to begin with ? maybe his plan was exactly what happen (with the exception of the Ranchor and Sarlacc) once again I turn to Snooker for answers in his Revenge of The Jedi edit, where he changes the crawl and re orders the first act

Why didn’t Yoda and Obi-Wan just tell Luke the truth about Vader ?

I guess he and Obi-Wan felt like it was too much to handle at the time, maybe they figured he’d react by “Rushing to face him” like he did in ESB ?
How can Leia remember her mother, when Padme died in childbirth ?
She was technically alive after giving birth and spoke to Obi-Wan before dying but plot hole again lol someone had Leia be born first instead of Luke in one edit of ROTS so she actually see’s Padme for a bit, still I doubt a newborn can recognize anyone and remember details mere moments out of the womb but I quite like that idea instead of just cutting the line altogether

Leia is Luke’s sister? Incest vibes ?

NOPE cut this out entirely lol though to be fair crazy stuff like long lost siblings meeting and marrying have happened in real life plus they had no idea at the time, still id agree in cutting this come to think of it what if Han left and Luke and Leia got together during ESB and Leia got knocked up, by the time Luke found out it would be to late and Obi-Wan and Yoda inadvertently would have allowed incest to happen especially Obi-Wan because he could clearly could see Luke had a thing for Leia in ANH

“Obi-Wan once thought as you do…”

Id be all for changing it to “Your mother once thought as you do” or “Your mother, Padme once thought as you do” can it be done ?

Why does Vader suggest destroying the Emperor in ESB, but then practically be his lap dog in ROTJ ?

I don’t think it was all an act but I just assumed that by this point he could do nothing to turn Luke or get him to help him so rather than try on his own he just gave up

How can two trees destroy an armored battle vehicle like an AT-ST ?

IDK about this one either, they were pretty big trees though lol

How did the Ewoks have a dress in Leia’s size ?

Luck, they measured her ? who’s to say I think like quite a few of these its best not to think to much about it

How did Anakin know how to become a force ghost ?

How indeed, id just leave old Anakin from the theatrical versions or get a less creepy shot of Hayden from somewhere smiling warmly at his son

Why do all the force ghosts appear to Luke as he knew them in his life, except Anakin ?

Lucas explained it as Anakin becoming the person he was again before turning, which I guess works well enough though there’s no guarantee that Luke would know who he was, still id say he could figure it out on his own

What’s the deal with the First Order ?

Someone suggested putting in the crawl that they were formed out of the last remnants of the Empire, I never had an issue with where they came from originally but if you really want to connect everything it would probably be best to mention that the Resistance formed from the last remnants of the Republic as well

Where did Snoke come from ?

I really hope Episode 9 answers this because I too really want to know, until then though maybe he could be put in in place of one of Palpatine’s body guards ?

What’s the relationship between the New Republic and the Resistance ?

You guys are on your own with this one, I got nothing

How does Rey speak Wookiee ?

Does she or does she learn when spending time with him in her search for Luke between TFA & TLJ ?

How did Poe Dameron survive the crash landing on Jakku ?

I’m sure many of us know that he wasn’t supposed to, originally and it was decided way later on that he would, the best I could come up with is to just leave it to the imagination and take his word for it OR ad a little parachute way in the distance of Jakku after the crash to suggest he ejected before impact

Has Han never really used Chewbacca’s gun ?

I’m willing to accept that he didn’t, I mean has Chewie fired Han’s blaster ?

What happened to Finn’s blaster at Maz’s castle ?

I have a feeling a deleted scene could explain this

Why does Kylo Ren’s scar look so different than it did at the end of TFA ?

You’re our only hope Sir Ridley

Why can’t the First Order send another ship to flank the Resistance? Why don’t they swarm them with TIE fighters ?

EHHH can someone pull an Adywan and add a few being shot down ?

Why isn’t hyper speed ramming more of a thing ?

Maybe it could be but no one ever wants to do it because its suicide

Why does Anakin’s lightsaber seem to change color between the movies ?

This is most obviously a stylistic change or unintentional but I’ve seen many a talented people do some amazing rotoscoping and recolors on these forums, I’m sure someone could make all the lightsaber cores match throughout if not just Anakin’s/Luke’s

“I will call this one BOHIJ”
-Chris O’Neil

“Heh Funnie Scream”
-The Boys From Oneyplays

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In regards to your “Your Mother” audio, I see what you mean. I think if there is a skilled editor who can help draw it out a bit and help match the movie’s audio … it could work.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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Ahh, it’s getting there, it just needs some tweaking to make it sound a bit more natural. I wonder too if using a data base of all vader quotes to get some letters/sounds that flow better to make it natural. It would need to be taken from ESB and ROTJ as opposed to ANH.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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jarbear said:

Ahh, it’s getting there, it just needs some tweaking to make it sound a bit more natural. I wonder too if using a data base of all vader quotes to get some letters/sounds that flow better to make it natural. It would need to be taken from ESB and ROTJ as opposed to ANH.

Yeah, still room for improvement. Using parts of other quotes might work, this is probably the best I can do using only the Bible reading.

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Did some quick search on Vader lines, of course, I do not know if they will work correctly based on ambient noise, music, sounds, etc. But there are these for sounds:

Darth Vader: No, I am YOUR faTHER!

Darth Vader: Obi-Wan never told you what hapenned to YOUR father?

Also if the M starting sound works, when he says the millennium falcon in the bounty hunter scene could that help?

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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 (Edited)

Imhotep:
First of all, thanks for sharing your thoughts and these cuts. I’ll be adding a lot of these to the resources folder just in case we decide to use them, if you’re cool with that.

That “mind wiped” cut is pretty good! Though I wonder if it could be made into “Have the droids’ minds wiped” rather than just “mind”.

Yeah, R2 definitely needs a sad beep there.

My view on the Sifo-Dyas thing is that he never gets mentioned again within the films, so within the movies we never really get an answer for it. I understand that it is meant to be a red herring, but is a red herring that is never even revealed as a red herring. So people left the theater wondering who Sifo-Dyas is and if more will be revealed about him in the next film, which we know never is. To me, this shows how murky the whole plot was in the first place, and it would just be simpler to make it where an anonymous person ordered this clone army for the Jedi Council and the Republic. It could technically still be Sifo-Dyas, we just don’t get that information (because we don’t need it). All we’ll know is that a man called Tyrannus hired Jango for this job. Obi-Wan never discovers the identity of Tyrannus, but the audience will by the end of the film when Dooku is revealed to be Tyrannus. Then the audience will know that the clone army is merely a part of Darth Sidious’ plot. I think Sifo-Dyas just makes it more complicated than it needs to be.

Yeah, we can see what ends up happening with Solo first just in case regarding Chewbacca and the Jedi.

That’s an interesting view on Anakin using green in AOTC. I hadn’t really thought of it that way but I totally see where you’re coming from. What if the colors were swapped with him and Obi? He would still wield a green one when he dual wields.

Yeah, I don’t think I would want to finalize anything until Adywan’s ROTJ is complete.

Wow, I know you made these for your own edits but I appreciate you sharing them! A lot of the Obi-Wan edits are pretty seamless. I also like the incest cuts too. Another kiss you missed is when Leia kisses Luke in the Falcon him as they are escaping from Cloud City. Not sure how to cut around that one.

I like the “Obi-Wan once thought as you do” cut. If we can’t get “your mother” to work, this would be the alternative option.

While I’m on the fence about Stormtroopers being clones personally, you’ve shown that implying that they are still clones would be pretty easy!

Jp4195:
Thanks for sharing all of your thoughts! I know these take forever to write but I appreciate the opinions.

I agree about the Yoda line. Changing it to “A Jedi master who instructed me” is the next change I would like to see.

I agree with you about the Jedi robes. I just think it would be way too hard to change them.

I do agree about the tech, but I just feel there is a bit of a disconnect, because even customized ships like Vader’s TIE Advanced and Kylo Ren’s TIE Silencer have more retro interfaces. Even the Falcon, which has been heavily modified, still has these retro targeting computers. I just feel the retro motion graphics are a part of Star Wars’ style, and I think seeing those types of graphics in the prequels could help bridge that design gap a little more.

I also think that’s the implication within the films regarding the Rule of Two. It’s exactly what you said, I think they’re both just competing to get Luke to become their apprentice.

Having them all have purple sabers when they confront the chancellor is an interesting idea too, although I think the implication should be that Mace’s action the whole of the Jedi rather than a certain group of Jedi, which is why Palpatine can condemn them all rather than just those four, if that makes sense.

Regarding Sifo-Dyas, that’s what I was thinking too! We could at least try to cut any mention of him out and see how it flows without him. I could be wrong! Just gotta see.

I also think Dooku was hoping to maybe turn Obi, and that if he failed to, it wouldn’t matter because he would be executed anyway. I also like to think that Dooku had noble reasons for joining the Sith, maybe that he could possibly destroy the Sith from the inside, but in the end he was just corrupted by the lust for power.

Leia being a princess: Bail and is wife are royalty, but it is actually never mentioned within the films. We can only assume. I kind of that it would be nice to have someone refer to Bail as “King” at least once, maybe Anakin right before Padme tells Anakin she’s pregnant.

I also think Obi-Wan aging between films is a big deal. I mean it isn’t that unbelievable and really, what are you going to do about it?

Stormtroopers being clones: Stormtroopers are normal recruits in canon, but it goes to show you how unclear it is because a lot people do think they are clones, I think George went back and forth on them being clones too. I just think it’d be easier to not make them clones and add a female voice or two to make it a little more obvious.

Yeah, Luke getting past the Hoth blockade was never a big deal to me either. I just assumed his ship was small enough to easily get past it, or he went in a different direction.

Obi-Wan never tells Luke he was their last hope, he just says it to Yoda, as an observation. Then when Yoda says, “No, there is another.” He says it like Obi-Wan wasn’t aware of Leia. Maybe they just have differing opinions on Leia and her potential or if she would even want to be trained.

Regarding Leia remembering, that’s an interesting idea having Leia being born first. Really the least you can do without changing ROTJ. I just don’t see why Luke wouldn’t remember her either in that case, you know?

Why Vader seems subservient to Emperor in ROTJ. Yeah, I think Luke basically chose dying over joining his own dad, I think Vader realized he couldn’t turn Luke alone, and he realized as much. The Emperor says as much, “Only together can we turn him to the dark side.” Just certain things, like groveling about the Emperor in private with Luke, or not letting Luke just kill the Emperor instead of blocking him in the Throne room. Just makes it a little less clear.

Yeah, Rey speaks Wookiee. Finn makes a point of it on the Falcon, asking, “You can understand that thing?” in TFA. She even translates Chewie for Luke in TLJ, which I’m not really sure she needs to. Does Luke not understand Chewie?

I also like that after all the time they spent together, that still haven’t done things like used the other one’s blaster. I also think Han making a point of how powerful it is sets up how much pain Kylo probably is in later when he gets shot with it.

Regarding Anakin’s saber. Yeah, you could argue its just stylistic choices, but I like the idea fit being a consistent light blue throughout the films, like a cyan, sky blue compared to the basic blue of the other lightsabers.

Appreciate all of your thoughts!

Sir Ridley:
Nice! Thanks for giving it a go. I made a sample of how it would look within the film.

But yeah, it looks like we could have three options if we can’t get this to match perfectly.

Use existing Vader quotes to create “your mother”
Use the Bible reading to also create “once thought as you do” to match.
Have some record their own voice if we can get it to sound like Vader.

I don’t know if Ady has any particular plans for this line, but watch us do all this work and then he releases ROTJ Revisited with a perfectly seamless “Your mother once thought as you do”! Although I don’t think he is planning on doing that.

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Wow, this thread is moving fast. It’s already getting a little difficult to get a handle on.

I’d expected it to take a very top-down approach, which is what I’m used to at work, but it seems like this thread is naturally leading towards a bottom-up one, where individual issues are being raised and discussed and solutions around them are forming.

That’s not a criticism at all, either is valid and will yield good results, but top-down and bottom-up can’t really both work together, at least not in a loose environment like a forum. So let’s lean into bottom-up for a moment and think about how a bit of structure might help.

If we’re going to be generating issues for discussion, instead of trying to find a coherent shared approach for movies, let’s see how well we can fix those issues by editing individual scenes, as a few people already have to great effect. I’d propose building a library of edited scenes in order that we can settle on which components warrant inclusion at a later date. This way, we focus on practicality without needing to come to a consensus right now. And if we have edited scenes to hand, it takes the pressure off a single set of edits - editors can simply select the elements they prefer the most. And it also takes the main editing pressure off individuals, since snipping and reordering scenes is one of the easier editing tasks. We can also, with permission, take edited scenes from existing fanedits with consent, and avoid repeating work.

Let’s take the Dooku is a fallen Jedi example - some are unhappy with his red lightsaber, so want it rotoscoped. We’ll list that as an issue, then if a capable VFX editor can make that change we have the scene available for production.

Does this resonate? If we focus on individual scenes rather than high-level goals it allows for practicality to be chief while leaving room for personal preferences down the line.

The Clone Wars: Refocused | Andor: Movie Omnibus

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EddieDean said:

Wow, this thread is moving fast. It’s already getting a little difficult to get a handle on.

I’d expected it to take a very top-down approach, which is what I’m used to at work, but it seems like this thread is naturally leading towards a bottom-up one, where individual issues are being raised and discussed and solutions around them are forming.

That’s not a criticism at all, either is valid and will yield good results, but top-down and bottom-up can’t really both work together, at least not in a loose environment like a forum. So let’s lean into bottom-up for a moment and think about how a bit of structure might help.

If we’re going to be generating issues for discussion, instead of trying to find a coherent shared approach for movies, let’s see how well we can fix those issues by editing individual scenes, as a few people already have to great effect. I’d propose building a library of edited scenes in order that we can settle on which components warrant inclusion at a later date. This way, we focus on practicality without needing to come to a consensus right now. And if we have edited scenes to hand, it takes the pressure off a single set of edits - editors can simply select the elements they prefer the most. And it also takes the main editing pressure off individuals, since snipping and reordering scenes is one of the easier editing tasks. We can also, with permission, take edited scenes from existing fanedits with consent, and avoid repeating work.

Let’s take the Dooku is a fallen Jedi example - some are unhappy with his red lightsaber, so want it rotoscoped. We’ll list that as an issue, then if a capable VFX editor can make that change we have the scene available for production.

Does this resonate? If we focus on individual scenes rather than high-level goals it allows for practicality to be chief while leaving room for personal preferences down the line.

Phrosted.

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EddieDean said:

Wow, this thread is moving fast. It’s already getting a little difficult to get a handle on.

I’d expected it to take a very top-down approach, which is what I’m used to at work, but it seems like this thread is naturally leading towards a bottom-up one, where individual issues are being raised and discussed and solutions around them are forming.

That’s not a criticism at all, either is valid and will yield good results, but top-down and bottom-up can’t really both work together, at least not in a loose environment like a forum. So let’s lean into bottom-up for a moment and think about how a bit of structure might help.

If we’re going to be generating issues for discussion, instead of trying to find a coherent shared approach for movies, let’s see how well we can fix those issues by editing individual scenes, as a few people already have to great effect. I’d propose building a library of edited scenes in order that we can settle on which components warrant inclusion at a later date. This way, we focus on practicality without needing to come to a consensus right now. And if we have edited scenes to hand, it takes the pressure off a single set of edits - editors can simply select the elements they prefer the most. And it also takes the main editing pressure off individuals, since snipping and reordering scenes is one of the easier editing tasks. We can also, with permission, take edited scenes from existing fanedits with consent, and avoid repeating work.

Let’s take the Dooku is a fallen Jedi example - some are unhappy with his red lightsaber, so want it rotoscoped. We’ll list that as an issue, then if a capable VFX editor can make that change we have the scene available for production.

Does this resonate? If we focus on individual scenes rather than high-level goals it allows for practicality to be chief while leaving room for personal preferences down the line.

I can see this is already getting out of hand as well, which I know I have contributed to that. So lets start with your example and discuss until a decision that is doable and practical can be achieved such as Dooku.

If we stick to JUST the movie canon, lightsaber colors were not really explained. Jedi had a variety of different colors. But we knew the Sith, or at least the “bad” guys used red. For those who just sit down and watch the movies, would it seem strange that Dooku, who is clearly the “bad” guy does not have a red lightsaber?

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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I am a big fan of spreadsheets! So far I get & like the linking!

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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Yep that is an improvement. I think what sticks out is the moTHER part of it. The reason is the word goes up, which makes a “jump” to the next word/ original face of “once thought…” So if there is a way it sounds more like “YOUR MOther once that…” I think that may help it. So maybe a source that goes down on sounds/quotes with “ther” or “er” maybe is what’s needed?

I hope that make sense?

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”