Well the previous screenwriters share at least as much of the blame. By all accounts it seems like Edwards stuck around too, so it’s probable that he wasn’t completely happy either.
Can’t imagine they’d take such a drastic course of action if it wasn’t necessary.
Rogue One is “a movie about sacrifice.” What?
The Person in Question
Rogue One is “a movie about sacrifice.” What?
When I read that I think yes, that’s what it should be about. Considering how even the reshot version fails to properly hit that mark, I can’t imagine what the original looked like.
I don’t know. I’d have to have specifics on what the original was like before I take their word for it being bad. Just because the studio wanted to “make it better” in their words does not actually mean that the quality of the original was poor. Think about that recent Fantastic Four movie. That was heavily reshot but based on the final product I doubt that it was because the original version was completely terrible.
Just for the record, I wasn’t being sarcastic with my comment on it being about sacrifice, I genuinely didn’t get any of that from the movie. I thought it’s message was about “learning to work together” and “doing the right thing” or something like that.
The Person in Question
Gilroy’s not the studio, he’s an unrelated filmmaker that they brought in. If he says it was a mess, I don’t see any reason to doubt that.
And his whole point was that the first thing he knew the movie needed was an underlying theme, and sacrifice is what he came up with.
I can’t speak to Fan4stic, but from what I understand a lot of problems arose because the director was hostile or something.
Reshoots are 90% of the time a good thing and legitimately done to try make the movie better, though this is something the internet doesn’t seem to understand.
And I got your meaning, but like I said Gilroy’s right, if everyone dies in the end, the movie should be about sacrifice (in addition to those things you mentioned). I tend to think if they had more time they could’ve nailed it.
Why is this coming out now, did an NDA expire or something?
Where were you in '77?
Why is this coming out now, did an NDA expire or something?
Seems like the first time anyone’s asked him. He says in the interview that there’s stuff he won’t get into, presumably due to the NDA.
Eh, I still don’t trust him. I have to know specifics about the original.
The Person in Question
Eh, I still don’t trust him. I have to know specifics about the original.
Okay but you don’t trust anyone so.
Eh, I still don’t trust him. I have to know specifics about the original.
Okay but you don’t trust anyone so.
I trust a few people, but only if I know them well and have deemed them trustworthy. I don’t know who this Gilroy is other than that he’s someone who got paid millions to do reshoots on a Star Wars movie. Why should I trust him?
The Person in Question
What are you doing, trust him trust him!
I’d rather see the version which had more Saw Gerrara as an actual character, and a finale where the group are actually together. It could still be a grey, lifeless marketing exercise but I’m not sure why he thinks this was an improvement.
I want to see the version with more Moroff. We know from photos he was on the tropical island base set.
Where were you in '77?
Eh, I still don’t trust him. I have to know specifics about the original.
Okay but you don’t trust anyone so.
I trust a few people, but only if I know them well and have deemed them trustworthy. I don’t know who this Gilroy is other than that he’s someone who got paid millions to do reshoots on a Star Wars movie. Why should I trust him?
I don’t see why not. The only reason I can think of why he would lie is to flatter himself, which yeah it does sound a little like he might be exaggerating for that reason, but still he seems to speak rather candidly in a way that doesn’t reflect well upon the studio.
I’d rather see the version which had more Saw Gerrara as an actual character, and a finale where the group are actually together. It could still be a grey, lifeless marketing exercise but I’m not sure why he thinks this was an improvement.
I’m not sure why either of those would improve it. It sounds like the changes he made were narrowing the focus of the film and making the character motivations clearer. If anything, he didn’t go far enough.
I’d rather see the version which had more Saw Gerrara as an actual character, and a finale where the group are actually together. It could still be a grey, lifeless marketing exercise but I’m not sure why he thinks this was an improvement.
I’m not sure why either of those would improve it. It sounds like the changes he made were narrowing the focus of the film and making the character motivations clearer. If anything, he didn’t go far enough.
Because those are character moments that are important for making me care about characters in a movie. As it stands I have no idea what Jyn and Saw were motivated by, beyond a few clichéd sound bites.
Eh, I still don’t trust him. I have to know specifics about the original.
Same. Edwards other films are good and the production went smooth, so it’s not like he’s incompetent.
moviefreakedmind said:
Just for the record, I wasn’t being sarcastic with my comment on it being about sacrifice, I genuinely didn’t get any of that from the movie. I thought it’s message was about “learning to work together” and “doing the right thing” or something like that.
Yep. It’s funny that someone who doesn’t even like the film seems to understand it better than some of the people who worked on it. 😉
I’d rather see the version which had more Saw Gerrara as an actual character, and a finale where the group are actually together. It could still be a grey, lifeless marketing exercise but I’m not sure why he thinks this was an improvement.
I’m not sure why either of those would improve it. It sounds like the changes he made were narrowing the focus of the film and making the character motivations clearer. If anything, he didn’t go far enough.
Because those are character moments that are important for making me care about characters in a movie. As it stands I have no idea what Jyn and Saw were motivated by, beyond a few clichéd sound bites.
Well that’s under the assumption that those unused moments with Saw would provide his motivation, and that his motivation is necessary to the overall story. As is he’s ultimately not incredibly important to the narrative, so in my mind it makes sense to streamline his story if he’s out before the halfway point (and when there’s at least 8 other important characters that are still alive and relevant).
Eh, I still don’t trust him. I have to know specifics about the original.
Same. Edwards other films are good and the production went smooth, so it’s not like he’s incompetent.
I don’t think Edwards’s competence is the problem. If I had to guess, they were rushed into production without a solid script, and when it came time to look at a cut it was clear what they were working with wasn’t working. Worth noting too that by all accounts Edwards was still involved during the reshoots, and Gilroy doesn’t say he wasn’t.
Edwards is fine, but he’s not someone I would say has amazing story sense. Monsters was okay. Godzilla had good moments but was ultimately not great. Interestingly enough, Godzilla had rewrites too, done by none other than Tony Gilroy.
moviefreakedmind said:
Just for the record, I wasn’t being sarcastic with my comment on it being about sacrifice, I genuinely didn’t get any of that from the movie. I thought it’s message was about “learning to work together” and “doing the right thing” or something like that.Yep. It’s funny that someone who doesn’t even like the film seems to understand it better than some of the people who worked on it. 😉
That doesn’t even make sense. Gilroy doesn’t say that the movie isn’t about those things, he just says it’s primarily about sacrifice, or that’s what he thought it should be about.
I’ll never understand how people come to the oddest conclusions.
he just says it’s primarily about sacrifice
But it’s not.
he just says it’s primarily about sacrifice
But it’s not.
It’s not about sacrifice because ultimately it’s not really primarily about anything, it’s almost about a lot of different things, one of them being sacrifice.
My full quote was
he just says it’s primarily about sacrifice, or that’s what he thought it should be about.
And when he says it’s about sacrifice, he’s saying “when I watched the rough cut, I saw what the film needed, which was to be about sacrifice.” If you don’t think the final product is about sacrifice, the proper critique isn’t that “he doesn’t understand the movie as much as some dude on the internet,” it’s that “he wanted the movie to be about sacrifice, but he failed to make it so.”
I’d rather see the version which had more Saw Gerrara as an actual character, and a finale where the group are actually together. It could still be a grey, lifeless marketing exercise but I’m not sure why he thinks this was an improvement.
I’m not sure why either of those would improve it. It sounds like the changes he made were narrowing the focus of the film and making the character motivations clearer. If anything, he didn’t go far enough.
Because those are character moments that are important for making me care about characters in a movie. As it stands I have no idea what Jyn and Saw were motivated by, beyond a few clichéd sound bites.
Well that’s under the assumption that those unused moments with Saw would provide his motivation, and that his motivation is necessary to the overall story. As is he’s ultimately not incredibly important to the narrative, so in my mind it makes sense to streamline his story if he’s out before the halfway point (and when there’s at least 8 other important characters that are still alive and relevant).
Personally Saw and Galen were the only interesting people and they were wasted. They just die and we’re supposed to… be sad? I don’t get it.
he just says it’s primarily about sacrifice
But it’s not.
It’s not because ultimately it’s not really primarily about anything
I’d say it’s a movie about learning to work together despite differences. I think that comes through clearly.
And when he says it’s about sacrifice, he’s saying “when I watched the rough cut, I saw what the film needed, which was to be about sacrifice.” If you don’t think the final product is about sacrifice, the proper critique isn’t that “he doesn’t understand the movie as much as some dude on the internet,” it’s that “he wanted the movie to be about sacrifice, but he failed to make it so.”
Pfft. ok.
I’d rather see the version which had more Saw Gerrara as an actual character, and a finale where the group are actually together. It could still be a grey, lifeless marketing exercise but I’m not sure why he thinks this was an improvement.
I’m not sure why either of those would improve it. It sounds like the changes he made were narrowing the focus of the film and making the character motivations clearer. If anything, he didn’t go far enough.
Because those are character moments that are important for making me care about characters in a movie. As it stands I have no idea what Jyn and Saw were motivated by, beyond a few clichéd sound bites.
Well that’s under the assumption that those unused moments with Saw would provide his motivation, and that his motivation is necessary to the overall story. As is he’s ultimately not incredibly important to the narrative, so in my mind it makes sense to streamline his story if he’s out before the halfway point (and when there’s at least 8 other important characters that are still alive and relevant).
Personally Saw and Galen were the only interesting people and they were wasted. They just die and we’re supposed to… be sad? I don’t get it.
Reading Catalyst made me wish we got more of the Galen/Orson dynamic, or at least we saw Orson motivations fleshed out a bit more. I don’t think we really needed more Saw, I think his whole deal as radical rebel is easily understood. I wish there was more in regards to the ethics of the different methods of rebellion, but I don’t think we necessarily needed to see that through Saw, though I certainly would’ve appreciated a better understanding of his impact on Jyn’s character.
DominicCobb said:
though I certainly would’ve appreciated a better understanding of his impact on Jyn’s character.
Exactly.