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Pirates of the Caribbean and the Political Correctness Craze — Page 13

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 (Edited)

moviefreakedmind said:

I haven’t seen TLJ, but I don’t see how anyone could describe TFA or R1 as films with any kind of creative or artistic vision. I’m not even saying that as an insult to them. There are plenty of Bond movies or other films that I love and find entertaining as hell that have no real creative or artistic vision, but I don’t find the Disney SW films entertaining. And since they don’t entertain me or interest me and they don’t have heart, I can’t appreciate them as films.

I’m not sure you’re the best person to judge if a movie “has a heart.” (joking, I guess I need to clarify)

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Dek Rollins said:

The Disney films are the director’s vision being made with massive amounts of input from Disney/LFL overlords who don’t care about Star Wars.

Citation needed.

Would you prefer Solo to be directed by people who turn Han into a lovably comical rogue, or to have KK step in and replace them with a director who will hopefully do justice to the character?

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Giving George all the artistic credit for the OT vastly overlooks the many people on staff at the time who overrode ideas of his that would have ruined the films.

The OT was built out of more talented people bringing a good end product from George’s ever-changing vision for the story. The PT was built out of George’s (still ever-changing and seemingly unfinished) personal vision being controlled by himself alone because nobody else wanted to take the helm from him. Both were still built around his artistic vision, the thing that brought the OT to perfection was that everyone else added their own vision into George’s.

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I didn’t give the prequels a pass. I just said they are slightly less soulless.

I would argue the opposite because their writer/directors are people who actually care about making Star Wars.

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I didn’t give the prequels a pass. I just said they are slightly less soulless.

I’m not sure though how working for Disney automatically leads JJ Abrams, Gareth Edwards, Rian Johnson, or Ron Howard (among the many others involved) to create soulless works.

The Disney films are the director’s vision being made with massive amounts of input from Disney/LFL overlords who don’t care about Star Wars. They care about money. George Lucas cared about money and his personal vision of Star Wars. I also might argue that Rian Johnson doesn’t care about Star Wars, but I don’t know how much of TLJ was interference from the studio heads, and I actually don’t want to argue about that because it would amount to flinging basement cat poo. I also don’t like JJ Abrams (as a filmmaker).

You don’t have to tell me you don’t know much, that’s plainly evident. Don’t talk about shit you know nothing about.

Could you phrase this as an actual response to my opinions? I see no reason for the overall insulting tone. My apology is below.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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 (Edited)

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

The Disney films are the director’s vision being made with massive amounts of input from Disney/LFL overlords who don’t care about Star Wars.

Citation needed.

Would you prefer Solo to be directed by people who turn Han into a lovably comical rogue, or to have KK step in and replace them with a director who will do justice to the character?

I would prefer that Disney allows the people who they hired in the first place to make the picture they feel works best. And maybe I’m wrong about the studio execs not caring about Star Wars, and I apologize for making baseless claims, but I’m not getting any glimpses of the contrary from what has been happening with the new films.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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 (Edited)

Dek Rollins said:

DominicCobb said:

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Giving George all the artistic credit for the OT vastly overlooks the many people on staff at the time who overrode ideas of his that would have ruined the films.

The OT was built out of more talented people bringing a good end product from George’s ever-changing vision for the story. The PT was built out of George’s (still ever-changing and seemingly unfinished) personal vision being controlled by himself alone because nobody else wanted to take the helm from him. Both were still built around his artistic vision, the thing that brought the OT to perfection was that everyone else added their own vision into George’s.

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I didn’t give the prequels a pass. I just said they are slightly less soulless.

I would argue the opposite because their writer/directors are people who actually care about making Star Wars.

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I didn’t give the prequels a pass. I just said they are slightly less soulless.

I’m not sure though how working for Disney automatically leads JJ Abrams, Gareth Edwards, Rian Johnson, or Ron Howard (among the many others involved) to create soulless works.

The Disney films are the director’s vision being made with massive amounts of input from Disney/LFL overlords who don’t care about Star Wars. They care about money. George Lucas cared about money and his personal vision of Star Wars. I also might argue that Rian Johnson doesn’t care about Star Wars, but I don’t know how much of TLJ was interference from the studio heads, and I actually don’t want to argue about that because it would amount to flinging basement cat poo. I also don’t like JJ Abrams (as a filmmaker).

You don’t have to tell me you don’t know much, that’s plainly evident. Don’t talk about shit you know nothing about.

Could you phrase this as an actual response to my opinions? Because I have no idea what you’re referring to, and I also see no reason for the overall insulting tone.

I guess I’m just tired of people making ridiculous proclamations based on nothing more than speculation and the opinions of other cynical nerds on the internet.

If you want me to be specific, there’s been basically zero evidence of interference by Disney “overlords.” Everything anyone has said has been that Disney is pretty hands off with their subsidiaries, which actually just makes sense, put the trust in the creators to make good stuff and the money will follow. When studios interfere (like Fox did for awhile), you usually get bad results. Studios aren’t stupid.

Also, there’s no such thing as LFL “overlords.” Kennedy is the CEO but she’s also the producer on these films, which means not only is she allowed to be involved creatively, she is supposed to be. There’s also the story group, which is literally just a team of writers that the filmmakers can use to brainstorm with. Everything anyone has ever said about the team at LFL has been positive and in no way are they forcing input, just offering it. You could say “ah bullshit, they’re just lying,” though if you think about it that doesn’t really make sense. Obviously if you had an unpleasant experience you’re not going to be open about it and badmouth your employers, but you’re also not going to go out of your way to make up nice things about them. Also, it’s tough to lie when there are so many people involved with these movies talking about them. People on the internet make up so much shit about how these movies were made without doing any research. Most of it is documented in the “Art of” books.

As for what I was referring to in your post specifically, you said that Rian Johnson doesn’t care about Star Wars but you implied maybe the things you didn’t like it were studio interference, then you said you don’t know much about the subject, which I think is obvious. If you’ve read literally any interview with the man, you’d know he loves Star Wars. This is even clearer in his longer form interviews, and in the aforementioned “Art of” books (I imagine it’s obvious in the behind the scenes stuff too). Saying TLJ might’ve been the victim of studio interference is demonstrably untrue, when there’s literally a quote out there from Johnson explaining why he did what on pretty much every decision made on the film.

Also, there’s an incredibly obvious argument as to why you know Disney didn’t “interfere,” and how you know the big decisions were being made by the filmmakers. Do you really think they would’ve done that to Luke? Fuck no. If this was the meddling money grubbing conglomerate you guys claim, we would’ve gotten exactly what the fans “wanted”: https://twitter.com/EnnieArdi/status/976181971578707968

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

The Disney films are the director’s vision being made with massive amounts of input from Disney/LFL overlords who don’t care about Star Wars.

Citation needed.

Would you prefer Solo to be directed by people who turn Han into a lovably comical rogue, or to have KK step in and replace them with a director who will do justice to the character?

I would prefer that Disney allows the people who they hired in the first place to make the picture they feel works best. And maybe I’m wrong about the studio execs not caring about Star Wars, and I apologize for making baseless claims, but I’m not getting any glimpses of the contrary from what has been happening with the new films.

Kennedy hired them, not Disney. Kennedy is the producer, she has the creative right to fire them, whether justified or not.

Also, just because you don’t like the movies they’ve made doesn’t mean your speculations are right. Baselessly blaming “studio interference” for everything is a completely sophomoric way of looking at things.

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Whomever was behind the decision making, I don’t like TLJ. I think I have the right to not like it.

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Warbler said:

Whomever was behind the decision making, I don’t like TLJ. I think I have the right to not like it.

Because we totally said you didn’t have the right.

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DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I haven’t seen TLJ, but I don’t see how anyone could describe TFA or R1 as films with any kind of creative or artistic vision. I’m not even saying that as an insult to them. There are plenty of Bond movies or other films that I love and find entertaining as hell that have no real creative or artistic vision, but I don’t find the Disney SW films entertaining. And since they don’t entertain me or interest me and they don’t have heart, I can’t appreciate them as films.

I’m not sure you’re the best person to judge if a movie “has a heart.” (joking, I guess I need to clarify)

I am.

DominicCobb said:

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

The Disney films are the director’s vision being made with massive amounts of input from Disney/LFL overlords who don’t care about Star Wars.

Citation needed.

Would you prefer Solo to be directed by people who turn Han into a lovably comical rogue, or to have KK step in and replace them with a director who will do justice to the character?

I would prefer that Disney allows the people who they hired in the first place to make the picture they feel works best. And maybe I’m wrong about the studio execs not caring about Star Wars, and I apologize for making baseless claims, but I’m not getting any glimpses of the contrary from what has been happening with the new films.

Kennedy hired them, not Disney. Kennedy is the producer, she has the creative right to fire them, whether justified or not.

Kennedy is part of the Disney machine now. She runs one of their biggest moneymakers.

Also, just because you don’t like the movies they’ve made doesn’t mean your speculations are right. Baselessly blaming “studio interference” for everything is a completely sophomoric way of looking at things.

I blame studio interference when there is more attention to things (like shoving in recognizable crap from the original films) that are completely devoid of any artistic merit, because it seems like the most obvious reason.

The Person in Question

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Warbler said:

Whomever was behind the decision making, I don’t like TLJ. I think I have the right to not like it.

Never said you didn’t.

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 (Edited)

There’s a certain antagonism here toward people that don’t like the Disney movies. It’s similar to the antagonism directed toward people that don’t think the prequels are the worst films ever made.

The Person in Question

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moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

The Disney films are the director’s vision being made with massive amounts of input from Disney/LFL overlords who don’t care about Star Wars.

Citation needed.

Would you prefer Solo to be directed by people who turn Han into a lovably comical rogue, or to have KK step in and replace them with a director who will do justice to the character?

I would prefer that Disney allows the people who they hired in the first place to make the picture they feel works best. And maybe I’m wrong about the studio execs not caring about Star Wars, and I apologize for making baseless claims, but I’m not getting any glimpses of the contrary from what has been happening with the new films.

Kennedy hired them, not Disney. Kennedy is the producer, she has the creative right to fire them, whether justified or not.

Kennedy is part of the Disney machine now. She runs one of their biggest moneymakers.

And it is in her best interest to make the best possible film (something she isn’t a bad authority on).

Also, just because you don’t like the movies they’ve made doesn’t mean your speculations are right. Baselessly blaming “studio interference” for everything is a completely sophomoric way of looking at things.

I blame studio interference when there is more attention to things (like shoving in recognizable crap from the original films) that are completely devoid of any artistic merit, because it seems like the most obvious reason.

But that’s still baseless. That kind of thing is usually referred to as “fan service.” Well, the filmmakers are fans, so…

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DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

The Disney films are the director’s vision being made with massive amounts of input from Disney/LFL overlords who don’t care about Star Wars.

Citation needed.

Would you prefer Solo to be directed by people who turn Han into a lovably comical rogue, or to have KK step in and replace them with a director who will do justice to the character?

I would prefer that Disney allows the people who they hired in the first place to make the picture they feel works best. And maybe I’m wrong about the studio execs not caring about Star Wars, and I apologize for making baseless claims, but I’m not getting any glimpses of the contrary from what has been happening with the new films.

Kennedy hired them, not Disney. Kennedy is the producer, she has the creative right to fire them, whether justified or not.

Kennedy is part of the Disney machine now. She runs one of their biggest moneymakers.

And it is in her best interest to make the best possible film (something she isn’t a bad authority on).

Also, just because you don’t like the movies they’ve made doesn’t mean your speculations are right. Baselessly blaming “studio interference” for everything is a completely sophomoric way of looking at things.

I blame studio interference when there is more attention to things (like shoving in recognizable crap from the original films) that are completely devoid of any artistic merit, because it seems like the most obvious reason.

But that’s still baseless. That kind of thing is usually referred to as “fan service.” Well, the filmmakers are fans, so…

Presumably they aren’t fans to the point of wanting to damage their film with distracting nonsense.

The Person in Question

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moviefreakedmind said:

There’s a certain antagonism here toward people that don’t like the Disney movies. It’s similar to the antagonism directed toward people that don’t think the prequels are the worst films ever made.

You can like what you like. I just get annoyed when people make ridiculous claims about made up boogeymen. It encourages a very shallow type of film criticism that is all too common these days. I’d feel the same way even if I disliked the movies.

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 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

There’s a certain antagonism here toward people that don’t like the Disney movies. It’s similar to the antagonism directed toward people that don’t think the prequels are the worst films ever made.

You can like what you like. I just get annoyed when people make ridiculous claims about made up boogeymen. It encourages a very shallow type of film criticism that is all too common these days. I’d feel the same way even if I disliked the movies.

My criticism of the films stem entirely from me not liking them. I actually stood up against shallow film criticism when Boyhood came up a couple days ago so I’m with you there. As for the antagonism, it’s not this thread that I’m talking about, it’s the General SW section and I was more responding to Warbler’s “I have that right” comment than anything else.

The Person in Question

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moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

DominicCobb said:

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

The Disney films are the director’s vision being made with massive amounts of input from Disney/LFL overlords who don’t care about Star Wars.

Citation needed.

Would you prefer Solo to be directed by people who turn Han into a lovably comical rogue, or to have KK step in and replace them with a director who will do justice to the character?

I would prefer that Disney allows the people who they hired in the first place to make the picture they feel works best. And maybe I’m wrong about the studio execs not caring about Star Wars, and I apologize for making baseless claims, but I’m not getting any glimpses of the contrary from what has been happening with the new films.

Kennedy hired them, not Disney. Kennedy is the producer, she has the creative right to fire them, whether justified or not.

Kennedy is part of the Disney machine now. She runs one of their biggest moneymakers.

And it is in her best interest to make the best possible film (something she isn’t a bad authority on).

Also, just because you don’t like the movies they’ve made doesn’t mean your speculations are right. Baselessly blaming “studio interference” for everything is a completely sophomoric way of looking at things.

I blame studio interference when there is more attention to things (like shoving in recognizable crap from the original films) that are completely devoid of any artistic merit, because it seems like the most obvious reason.

But that’s still baseless. That kind of thing is usually referred to as “fan service.” Well, the filmmakers are fans, so…

Presumably they aren’t fans to the point of wanting to damage their film with distracting nonsense.

They probably realize that whether their movie has a Ponda Baba cameo or not isn’t really the type of thing that has much of an impact on the movie’s overall quality.

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 (Edited)

I’m talking about the Darth Vader scenes. And the cartoon Peter Cushing and Carrie Fisher.

The Person in Question

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moviefreakedmind said:

There’s a certain antagonism here toward people that don’t like the Disney movies. It’s similar to the antagonism directed toward people that don’t think the prequels are the worst films ever made.

This.

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Honestly, there’s antagonism on both sides. That side just happens to have more people.

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TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Whomever was behind the decision making, I don’t like TLJ. I think I have the right to not like it.

Because we totally said you didn’t have the right.

But it was made quite clear my opinions weren’t welcome in the TLJ threads.

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Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Whomever was behind the decision making, I don’t like TLJ. I think I have the right to not like it.

Because we totally said you didn’t have the right.

But it was made quite clear my opinions weren’t welcome in the TLJ threads.

Warb, people complain about TLJ on this forum everyday.

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DominicCobb said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

Whomever was behind the decision making, I don’t like TLJ. I think I have the right to not like it.

Because we totally said you didn’t have the right.

But it was made quite clear my opinions weren’t welcome in the TLJ threads.

Warb, people complain about TLJ on this forum everyday.

I’m just saying how when I complained the reaction felt. Which is why I stopped posting in the TLJ threads.