The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 241

Frank your Majesty said:

You’re overthinking this. The point of Broom Boy is to show how the Force is for everyone and that you don’t need to be mentioned in a prophecy or part of a certain family to use it. And in order to establish this in a quick and subtle way, they showed him grabbing the broom. Showing his enhanced reflexes would require a way longer scene, putting too much emphasis on him. And simply mentioning his abilities in dialogue would be lazy and too on the nose.

Of course I’m overthinking this. I’m a Star Wars nerd!

Seriously though, I actually like the sentiment - that the Force is for everybody (as opposed to genetic a la the PT). But it isn’t free. In the OT (and the PT despite Midichlorians) the Force is a discipline. Luke struggled to levitate his lightsaber in the Wampa cave. He was 23 yrs-old and had been aware of his heritage for the past 3 years. He couldn’t raise his X-wing. Yoda could. This was a clear indication of learning, of slow progress, of mastering his self and his fears and his ego in order to reach for such mastery. I just happen to like that idea. If kids can levitate brooms and Rey can lift a mountain without training then Luke clearly sucked as a Jedi, 'cos apparently this stuff ain’t so difficult!

RJ had already made his point about the Force via Luke’s explanation and Rey’s parentage. We didn’t need Broom Boy. I’d have preferred the film end on the Falcon or have Broom Boy simply holding the Resistance badge and looking to the stars.

oojason said:

Some intriguing thoughts and takes on TLJ in here (and about the current state of movie commentary)…

‘Star Wars Fans don’t deserve The Last Jedi’:-

https://medium.com/@thejohnprice/star-wars-fans-dont-deserve-the-last-jedi-5bd167dfc033

(The comments section is well worth a read after the article too)

This article makes me sad.

"“Star Wars Fans” are conditioned to be dumb consumers.”

A term which of course only applies to the critics of TLJ…

“The Star Wars fan community is largely defined by its immaturity and childish nature. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing — it’s fun to play with toys and get dressed up as your favorite characters and make pew pew sounds. But this is also key to understanding the backlash to The Last Jedi. The movie’s fundamental sin is that it’s a movie, not just a toy commercial.”

The detractors just wanted a toy commercial, while TLJ’s fans, sophisticated that they are, appreciate “real” movies. The comment section pretty much sums up the us versus them mentality that this article revels in. This is really…really… not good.

SilverWook said:

It’s not unreasonable that an untrained Force sensitive kid might learn to do a few parlor tricks like pulling a broom to his hand without ever being able to do much more than that. Interestingly enough, it’s those kind of parlor tricks Anakin does around Padme in AOTC, even though he says Obi Wan frowns on such frivolous use of the Force.*

*We later see Obi Wan use the Force to open and close doors mere inches away from his grasp. Which makes him out to be a bit of a hypocrite. 😛

I mean, those could just be the automatic doors you see everywhere, and he’s just like the rest of us. 😛

oojason said:

DrDre said:

oojason said:

Some intriguing thoughts and takes on TLJ in here (and about the current state of movie commentary)…

‘Star Wars Fans don’t deserve The Last Jedi’:-

https://medium.com/@thejohnprice/star-wars-fans-dont-deserve-the-last-jedi-5bd167dfc033

(The comments section is well worth a read after the article too)

This article makes me sad.

"“Star Wars Fans” are conditioned to be dumb consumers.”

A term which of course only applies to the critics of TLJ…

“The Star Wars fan community is largely defined by its immaturity and childish nature. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing — it’s fun to play with toys and get dressed up as your favorite characters and make pew pew sounds. But this is also key to understanding the backlash to The Last Jedi. The movie’s fundamental sin is that it’s a movie, not just a toy commercial.”

The detractors just wanted a toy commercial, while TLJ’s fans, sophisticated that they are, appreciate “real” movies. The comment section pretty much sums up the us versus them mentality that this article revels in. This is really…really… not good.

In the context of the whole article - including this towards the end…

‘*Note: Obviously #NotAllStarWarsFans. But in the digital fandom era there has emerged a nebulous hivemind that drives “the narrative.” Whether one guy was responsible for The Last Jedi’s bad RT score became irrelevant when the story took on a life of its own and spun into the popular consciousness. The fact remains: there is a lot of negative criticism of The Last Jedi in the toxic movie criticism culture as it exists on YouTube and various fan sites. And it is that toxicity that has not only missed the point of the movie, but is actively hurting the fan community dynamic.’

Not all…is pretty much how any argument is defended, that tries to paint a large portion of people with the same brush, and then adds a little side note to add a veneer of objectivity. The irony is, that this article is very much part of the same toxicity, that he claims the opposition is exposing the fan community to. It is the poster child of an attitude, that treat those with a different opinion with utter contempt. Just a few examples next to the aforementioned insults:

“Johnson assumed he would be speaking to an audience who had taken high school literature. Unfortunately for him, Star Wars fandom is stuck in preschool.”

“Star Wars fans” have fully realized exactly what they’ve been trained to be: a gaggle of screaming infants, throwing their toys against the wall and pressing replay on the Battle of Scarif.”

“If fans cannot grow beyond their infantile desires, they’re doomed to repeat the same stories over and over again, perched atop an empty throne-room where fear and hubris have overwhelmed hope and wisdom.”

“The greatest teacher, failure is. We are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters. Until they recognize this and understand the lesson taught, Star Wars fans don’t deserve The Last Jedi.”

All this abuse for simply not liking the movie he likes. What an “expletive deleted”!

oojason said:

darthrush said:

nor this is a brilliant / good / awful / bad judgment of the article - just that it had some intriguing thoughts and takes therein.

That is all.

haaaaa

Aye, not bad for someone with ‘obvious double standards’ for posting an article in which the quality or of it was not mentioned/commented upon at all - and one you seeming haven’t read yet going on ‘From Dre’s cited text, looks like an god awful, elitist article’.

I did read it, and it is an god awful, elitist article. Not for defending TLJ obviously, but for the utter contempt it displays towards a part of the fan base. I didn’t find those very intriguing thoughts and takes, more like insulting to be honest. There have been articles posted here on TLJ, that were harsh on the film (not on the fan base), that have been treated far less kindly than this one. They were definitely not labeled intriguing thoughts and takes, if memory serves me well.

I mean, a lot of that is true for some people, but I don’t see how that article is productive.

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

Ms. Thrawn said:

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

And yes, it makes more sense to me to continue to talk about a film you like then one you dislike simply because most people are not bothered to keep engaged in activities they dislike. If I don’t like a book I stop reading, If I don’t like a song on the radio I switch stations etc. But if I DO like that song I listen to it a lot and tell other people about it.

Creox said:

Ms. Thrawn said:

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

That is a pretty crass assumption. Why should you not want to discuss something you feel passionate about? Do you think it gives me discomfort? Why do I need to be swayed, and why should I desire others to see the light? Why can’t it just be about exchanging ideas? Should this forum just be an echo chamber for positive opinions?

And yes, it makes more sense to me to continue to talk about a film you like then one you dislike simply because most people are not bothered to keep engaged in activities they dislike. If I don’t like a book I stop reading, If I don’t like a song on the radio I switch stations etc. But if I DO like that song I listen to it a lot and tell other people about it.

There are whole sections in this forum devoted to stuff many people don’t like: the Special Editions, and the PT. These films and versions have existed for decades, and people are still discussing them, more often than not in a negative light. So, why should I not be discussing TLJ after just three months?

Remember: the greatest teacher failure is, and in my view TLJ is a failure, and there’s a lot to learn from this particular failure in terms of my own appreciation of the Star Wars universe and works of fiction in general.

Creox said:

Ms. Thrawn said:

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

And yes, it makes more sense to me to continue to talk about a film you like then one you dislike simply because most people are not bothered to keep engaged in activities they dislike. If I don’t like a book I stop reading, If I don’t like a song on the radio I switch stations etc. But if I DO like that song I listen to it a lot and tell other people about it.

If this was an original film not based on anything or part of a franchise, I’d agree with you. But it’s part of something larger, and if you are a fan of the rest of the franchise, why wouldn’t you want to talk about a part of it that disappointed you?

oojason said:

Some intriguing thoughts and takes on TLJ in here (and about the current state of movie commentary)…

‘Star Wars Fans don’t deserve The Last Jedi’:-

https://medium.com/@thejohnprice/star-wars-fans-dont-deserve-the-last-jedi-5bd167dfc033

(The comments section is well worth a read after the article too)

What a total wanker (can I say that without getting banned?)…

He relies entirely on a strawman argument that depicts any detractors as simply “not understanding the movie” - which is a complete cop-out. He relies on the ‘OT was stupid too’ argument which is absurd (very few commentators see TESB as anything other than a masterful piece of quality filmmaking). His comment about SW merchandising makes no sense given that the film was a huge hit before a single toy had been released - hence the famous ‘empty box’ promotion which was responding to demand and not the other way around. I could go on. What a prat. But I guess saying so makes me an immature fanboy right?

That said, I didn’t understand why Holdo didn’t simply share her plan with Poe and spare us 45 mins of Canto Bight, so maybe I didn’t ‘get it’ after all…(tosses toy lightsaber over shoulder like immature fanboy…)

Here’s a pretty balanced, but critical analysis of RJ’s story choices mostly with regards to Luke, based on one of the featurettes where RJ explained his thought process:

“Brilliant or Senseless? Rian Johnson Explains The Last Jedi”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C95o0MRzBVs

Hint: the guy has many videos discussing The Last Jedi. He doesn’t dislike the movie, but he doesn’t love it either. To summarize, he thinks it’s flawed, and like me likes analyzing the movie, to discover why he feels that way.

Creox said:

Ms. Thrawn said:

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

And yes, it makes more sense to me to continue to talk about a film you like then one you dislike simply because most people are not bothered to keep engaged in activities they dislike. If I don’t like a book I stop reading, If I don’t like a song on the radio I switch stations etc. But if I DO like that song I listen to it a lot and tell other people about it.

I can’t speak for anyone else here, but I think at some level I’m hoping to be swayed. As a fan I want to be able to keep enjoying Star Wars. If someone can offer me a better way to view aspects of the film that bug me (Holdo’s withholding information, new canon regarding the Force, Luke’s personality etc) then I’m all for it. I love the imagery in TLJ and look forward to owning the blu ray for that reason, but I do struggle with the movie as a piece of canon.

The cool thing about this particular forum, for me at least, is there seems to be a nice level of civility here where we can nerd out and discuss Star Wars minutiae without insulting each other. Star Wars has always been an escape from the everyday for me, and banging on about plot points and Force lore is a nice way to carry on that proud tradition (apologies for sounding over-sentimental…)

Shopping Maul said:

Creox said:

Ms. Thrawn said:

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

And yes, it makes more sense to me to continue to talk about a film you like then one you dislike simply because most people are not bothered to keep engaged in activities they dislike. If I don’t like a book I stop reading, If I don’t like a song on the radio I switch stations etc. But if I DO like that song I listen to it a lot and tell other people about it.

I can’t speak for anyone else here, but I think at some level I’m hoping to be swayed. As a fan I want to be able to keep enjoying Star Wars. If someone can offer me a better way to view aspects of the film that bug me (Holdo’s withholding information, new canon regarding the Force, Luke’s personality etc) then I’m all for it.

Thing is, those are things that are all explained in the film and have been discussed ad nauseam here. Either you buy it, or you don’t. Sounds like you don’t, and I’m not sure there’s anything that could be added to the last 241 pages that’d sway you one way or the other.

I just got shipment notification on my Blu-ray, here’s hoping it makes it to my house a day or two before the 27th 😃