I kind of doubt the bombers are designed to operate too far from a mother ship. Are they even hyperspace capable? Being in the ball turret during a jump would be terrifying.
Where were you in '77?
https://youtu.be/9eJXB0FQPD0 - good analysis on why Snoke in the ST doesn’t work like Palpatine worked in the OT.
https://youtu.be/9eJXB0FQPD0 - good analysis on why Snoke in the ST doesn’t work like Palpatine worked in the OT.
Just what we all need, another no-name youtuber giving his reasons why nu star wars sux.
In all honesty the constant comparing is what’s killing any chance of enjoyment for these people. For goodness sake judge the new movies on their own merits without the constant, endless comparisons to a trilogy of films made 40 years ago.
If you want to compare The Last Jedi to other movies then judge it against its 2017 contemporaries… comparable films made with a high budget and targeted at family audiences; such classics as ‘Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales’, ‘Kong: Skull Island’, and ‘Justice League’. The bar is set so low and thank goodness that we are still getting films at the high quality level of The Last Jedi - stop whining, get some perspective, and appreciate how rare that is in the family film category.
https://youtu.be/9eJXB0FQPD0 - good analysis on why Snoke in the ST doesn’t work like Palpatine worked in the OT.
Just what we all need, another no-name youtuber giving his reasons why nu star wars sux.
In all honesty the constant comparing is what’s killing any chance of enjoyment for these people. For goodness sake judge the new movies on their own merits without the constant, endless comparisons to a trilogy of films made 40 years ago.
If you want to compare The Last Jedi to other movies then judge it against its 2017 contemporaries… comparable films made with a high budget and targeted at family audiences; such classics as ‘Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales’, ‘Kong: Skull Island’, and ‘Justice League’. The bar is set so low and thank goodness that we are still getting films at the high quality level of The Last Jedi - stop whining, get some perspective, and appreciate how rare that is in the family film category.
Who cares if it’s a “no-name youtuber,” an article, a podcast or whatever. You don’t have to click but it can provide insight. The video was a response to those who compare TLJ to the OT; the youtuber explained it is a false comparison. However, I’m not quite sure what your objection is to comparing TLJ to the OT, since you seem focused on quality. Are you saying that TLJ cannot compare favorably in terms of quality to movies made 40 years ago? Must we really compare TLJ to some of the worst recent movies in order to argue it is good? The ultimate point of the youtube video was about storytelling and character development.
The blue elephant in the room.
I think I figured out a retcon to make sense of TESB and TFA. In universe when they refer to a system, they do not mean star system, but a group of worlds or moons as a political body.
This has always been how I see it. I never even considered that they were talking about solar systems until someone brought it up recently.
https://youtu.be/9eJXB0FQPD0 - good analysis on why Snoke in the ST doesn’t work like Palpatine worked in the OT.
Just what we all need, another no-name youtuber giving his reasons why nu star wars sux.
In all honesty the constant comparing is what’s killing any chance of enjoyment for these people. For goodness sake judge the new movies on their own merits without the constant, endless comparisons to a trilogy of films made 40 years ago.
If you want to compare The Last Jedi to other movies then judge it against its 2017 contemporaries… comparable films made with a high budget and targeted at family audiences; such classics as ‘Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales’, ‘Kong: Skull Island’, and ‘Justice League’. The bar is set so low and thank goodness that we are still getting films at the high quality level of The Last Jedi - stop whining, get some perspective, and appreciate how rare that is in the family film category.
lol. no.
As someone who absolutely loved TLJ I must say I’m amazed at the hatred this movie is getting. What did you want? The First Order Strikes Back? Don’t worry, episode IX will be Return of the Fan Service with none other than JJ Abrams on the helm.
I think he may have read the first sentence. Maybe two?
I didn’t read any of it, actually. I don’t read. I have news explained to me in short presentations so I don’t get bored.
This post is the first you’ve made on this topic that’s made any sense.
That’s a different way of looking at it.
Exactly what I thought of your first post about the article.
You clearly should re-read what I wrote and re-read the article in the first post.
From what he said, it does have meaning. For someone searching for someone to guide her, the vision showed she is her own guide, which is where her story was going. Ultimately she relies on herself and not Luke. She even faced the truth about her parents, with the revelation that they were nobodies coming from her, not Kylo. Though Kylo does take a dig by saying they were dead in the Jakku desert.
https://youtu.be/9eJXB0FQPD0 - good analysis on why Snoke in the ST doesn’t work like Palpatine worked in the OT.
Just what we all need, another no-name youtuber giving his reasons why nu star wars sux.
In all honesty the constant comparing is what’s killing any chance of enjoyment for these people. For goodness sake judge the new movies on their own merits without the constant, endless comparisons to a trilogy of films made 40 years ago.
If you want to compare The Last Jedi to other movies then judge it against its 2017 contemporaries… comparable films made with a high budget and targeted at family audiences; such classics as ‘Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales’, ‘Kong: Skull Island’, and ‘Justice League’. The bar is set so low and thank goodness that we are still getting films at the high quality level of The Last Jedi - stop whining, get some perspective, and appreciate how rare that is in the family film category.
Who cares if it’s a “no-name youtuber,” an article, a podcast or whatever. You don’t have to click but it can provide insight. The video was a response to those who compare TLJ to the OT; the youtuber explained it is a false comparison. However, I’m not quite sure what your objection is to comparing TLJ to the OT, since you seem focused on quality. Are you saying that TLJ cannot compare favorably in terms of quality to movies made 40 years ago? Must we really compare TLJ to some of the worst recent movies in order to argue it is good? The ultimate point of the youtube video was about storytelling and character development.
I think his point was that YouTube is full of people with opinions and it is rarely worth watching. There are a few gems, but there are a lot of duds and on this topic it is a pretty repetative line that TLJ is bad for this or that reason. After so many they get old, even if they are saying something slightly different.
I think I figured out a retcon to make sense of TESB and TFA. In universe when they refer to a system, they do not mean star system, but a group of worlds or moons as a political body. Otherwise the Falcon in TESB would have spent months or years traveling from Hoth to Bespin. but if Hoth, Anoat, and Bespin are all in one solar system but comprise 3 political bodies, then the Falcon can traverse that distance in days. The same with the people of Takodana seeing the blast that destroys the Hosnian system (which is portrayed as a planet with several moons). I still think Takodana should be further away than that and them seeing was a silly plot point.
How this quite relates to TFA, I’m not sure, but the discussion that was going on made me think about it.
Sounds plausible.
Goes to show that trying to fit Star Wars into a scifi box doesn’t work too well though. Travel times were one area where they really played fast and loose in the OT. After reading your post I had to google and there are similar thoughts to yours. The official explanation was too convoluted: a (slow) backup hyperdrive.
As the stories build on each other, consistency is developed and audience expectations go up. I wonder if as a function of that and audiences being more jaded from decades of movie wizardry, that some of these things become more problematic than they were 1977-1983. I think that is an issue when it comes to TLJ, where new things suddenly seem implausible, inconsistent or plotholey - even when they demonstrably are not.
The slowness of the bombers bugged me, feeling like there was a game mechanic to make them really slow to compensate for their offensive power, because otherwise they would be OP. No great thing and certainly not a reason to hate the movie, but it was there.
Bombers are supposed to be slow, they have a heavy cargo. They aren’t light, nimble fighters. I found them to be done the right way. Also very true to WWII bombers. WWII aircraft are the inspiration for the Star Wars dogfights so why it a bombing run.
https://youtu.be/9eJXB0FQPD0 - good analysis on why Snoke in the ST doesn’t work like Palpatine worked in the OT.
Just what we all need, another no-name youtuber giving his reasons why nu star wars sux.
In all honesty the constant comparing is what’s killing any chance of enjoyment for these people. For goodness sake judge the new movies on their own merits without the constant, endless comparisons to a trilogy of films made 40 years ago.
If you want to compare The Last Jedi to other movies then judge it against its 2017 contemporaries… comparable films made with a high budget and targeted at family audiences; such classics as ‘Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales’, ‘Kong: Skull Island’, and ‘Justice League’. The bar is set so low and thank goodness that we are still getting films at the high quality level of The Last Jedi - stop whining, get some perspective, and appreciate how rare that is in the family film category.
Who cares if it’s a “no-name youtuber,” an article, a podcast or whatever. You don’t have to click but it can provide insight. The video was a response to those who compare TLJ to the OT; the youtuber explained it is a false comparison. However, I’m not quite sure what your objection is to comparing TLJ to the OT, since you seem focused on quality. Are you saying that TLJ cannot compare favorably in terms of quality to movies made 40 years ago? Must we really compare TLJ to some of the worst recent movies in order to argue it is good? The ultimate point of the youtube video was about storytelling and character development.
The point is that with these ‘no name you tubers’ that seem to get a lot of links from the anti-brigade its typically an exercise in axe grinding. They care enough - or should that be, they hate enough - to bother making a video. Plus controversy gets them more clicks and more comments, so they are rarely what I would consider level or balanced in their opinions.
Plus what’s wrong with comparing The Last Jedi with other high budget family genre movies that were released in 2017? It’s a like for like comparison and entirely valid.
https://youtu.be/9eJXB0FQPD0 - good analysis on why Snoke in the ST doesn’t work like Palpatine worked in the OT.
I think the guy provides analysis but whether it is useful or not depends on how you see Snoke as a fan of SW. I did not care about where he came from in the same way I didn’t care about where Palpatine came from in ANH. I thought about this for a while and came to the conclusion that my thoughts and feelings about Sidious did not change after seeing the prequels…at all, amazingly.
I think has a lot to do with why the guy exists at the base level…to be a villain. Having him be mysterious in ANH made him more menacing and scary. Same with Snoke. I see him in exactly the same way I saw Sidious and did not have any desire to really know where and why he came to be in TFA. Of course I was curious but it was minor.
I think I figured out a retcon to make sense of TESB and TFA. In universe when they refer to a system, they do not mean star system, but a group of worlds or moons as a political body. Otherwise the Falcon in TESB would have spent months or years traveling from Hoth to Bespin. but if Hoth, Anoat, and Bespin are all in one solar system but comprise 3 political bodies, then the Falcon can traverse that distance in days. The same with the people of Takodana seeing the blast that destroys the Hosnian system (which is portrayed as a planet with several moons). I still think Takodana should be further away than that and them seeing was a silly plot point.
How this quite relates to TFA, I’m not sure, but the discussion that was going on made me think about it.
Sounds plausible.
Goes to show that trying to fit Star Wars into a scifi box doesn’t work too well though. Travel times were one area where they really played fast and loose in the OT. After reading your post I had to google and there are similar thoughts to yours. The official explanation was too convoluted: a (slow) backup hyperdrive.
As the stories build on each other, consistency is developed and audience expectations go up. I wonder if as a function of that and audiences being more jaded from decades of movie wizardry, that some of these things become more problematic than they were 1977-1983. I think that is an issue when it comes to TLJ, where new things suddenly seem implausible, inconsistent or plotholey - even when they demonstrably are not.
The slowness of the bombers bugged me, feeling like there was a game mechanic to make them really slow to compensate for their offensive power, because otherwise they would be OP. No great thing and certainly not a reason to hate the movie, but it was there.
Bombers are supposed to be slow, they have a heavy cargo. They aren’t light, nimble fighters. I found them to be done the right way. Also very true to WWII bombers. WWII aircraft are the inspiration for the Star Wars dogfights so why it a bombing run.
I agree. I think I understand the thinking re: implausibility of slow bombers…in space. But the thing is if you started down that road too far you end up with a hard science fiction story, which SW is most decidedly not.
https://youtu.be/9eJXB0FQPD0 - good analysis on why Snoke in the ST doesn’t work like Palpatine worked in the OT.
Just what we all need, another no-name youtuber giving his reasons why nu star wars sux.
In all honesty the constant comparing is what’s killing any chance of enjoyment for these people. For goodness sake judge the new movies on their own merits without the constant, endless comparisons to a trilogy of films made 40 years ago.
If you want to compare The Last Jedi to other movies then judge it against its 2017 contemporaries… comparable films made with a high budget and targeted at family audiences; such classics as ‘Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales’, ‘Kong: Skull Island’, and ‘Justice League’. The bar is set so low and thank goodness that we are still getting films at the high quality level of The Last Jedi - stop whining, get some perspective, and appreciate how rare that is in the family film category.
Who cares if it’s a “no-name youtuber,” an article, a podcast or whatever. You don’t have to click but it can provide insight. The video was a response to those who compare TLJ to the OT; the youtuber explained it is a false comparison. However, I’m not quite sure what your objection is to comparing TLJ to the OT, since you seem focused on quality. Are you saying that TLJ cannot compare favorably in terms of quality to movies made 40 years ago? Must we really compare TLJ to some of the worst recent movies in order to argue it is good? The ultimate point of the youtube video was about storytelling and character development.
I think his point was that YouTube is full of people with opinions and it is rarely worth watching. There are a few gems, but there are a lot of duds and on this topic it is a pretty repetative line that TLJ is bad for this or that reason. After so many they get old, even if they are saying something slightly different.
The videos I find exceptionally annoying tend to be from the bigger name youtubers. The video Collipso links is quality (especially compared to Justice League!). As for repetitiveness of making a point or trying to make it better: no doubt. But then you have somebody who liked the movie saying things like “you just hated it because you wanted the same old thing,” completely ignoring what was just said. Or in Matt.F’s case, that whatever point might be made about Snoke, TLJ is good because it’s better than certain bad recent movies in the “family film category.”
The video is perfectly responsive to Creox’s argument. And so we go round and round.
The blue elephant in the room.
https://youtu.be/9eJXB0FQPD0 - good analysis on why Snoke in the ST doesn’t work like Palpatine worked in the OT.
Just what we all need, another no-name youtuber giving his reasons why nu star wars sux.
In all honesty the constant comparing is what’s killing any chance of enjoyment for these people. For goodness sake judge the new movies on their own merits without the constant, endless comparisons to a trilogy of films made 40 years ago.
If you want to compare The Last Jedi to other movies then judge it against its 2017 contemporaries… comparable films made with a high budget and targeted at family audiences; such classics as ‘Pirates Of The Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales’, ‘Kong: Skull Island’, and ‘Justice League’. The bar is set so low and thank goodness that we are still getting films at the high quality level of The Last Jedi - stop whining, get some perspective, and appreciate how rare that is in the family film category.
I’m sorry you’re so mad. Those who criticized the movie NEVER drew any sort of comparison between Snoke and Palpatine, they just criticized Snoke in the ST. Those defending the ST said that we as an audience knew just as much about Palpatine in the OT then we know about Snoke in the ST, and this video is an answer to that counter argument. I recommend you watching it because I think it shows very clearly why Snoke doesn’t work.
Collipso are you the guy who has refused to watch The Last Jedi or is that ray_afraid? I thought I read somewhere back in the thread that one of you guys hasn’t even watched the film?
I’m actually far from mad - I really enjoyed the film! I don’t much like reading whining though. Maybe it’s from being British, where complaining is somewhat frowned upon culturally (that’s not to say it doesn’t go on), but the sort of whining and nitpicking that has accompanied the release of TLJ from “fans” is hard to listen to.
I didn’t think Snoke was a great character though. I far prefer ‘tangible’ in camera where possible and the Snoke CG fx in TFA was a lowpoint. The CG was superior in TLJ but still I’m not sad to see the character gone, and the throne room sequence for me was superb - really well delivered by Rian Johnson. He pulled the Game Of Thrones trick of killing off a character at a moment that none of us anticipated.
Collipso are you the guy who has refused to watch The Last Jedi or is that ray_afraid? I thought I read somewhere back in the thread that one of you guys hasn’t even watched the film?
I’m actually far from mad - I really enjoyed the film! I don’t much like reading whining though. Maybe it’s from being British, where complaining is somewhat frowned upon culturally (that’s not to say it doesn’t go on), but the sort of whining and nitpicking that has accompanied the release of TLJ from “fans” is hard to listen to.
I didn’t think Snoke was a great character though. I far prefer ‘tangible’ in camera where possible and the Snoke CG fx in TFA was a lowpoint. The CG was superior in TLJ but still I’m not sad to see the character gone, and the throne room sequence for me was superb - really well delivered by Rian Johnson. He pulled the Game Of Thrones trick of killing off a character at a moment that none of us anticipated.
I have watched the movie twice. Sorry for assuming you’re mad, but it certainly seems that way if you read your last couple of posts. I enjoyed the film as well, I just have way too many problems with it, but I think I’ll warm up to it. Not enough to overlook its flaws, but enough to get a really fun experience out of it.
I liked how Rian killed Snoke too. I think it was a nice decision and a fresh twist. Standing alone it’s an interesting idea. However, like the video points out, Snoke is the central piece of the puzzle that is the state of the galaxy post-RotJ. Snoke is a central figure in Ben Solo’s arc, which is the most important thing in the ST so far, since it took both Luke and Han out of the fight. TLJ shows how Luke slipped and how Ben’s fall was partly his fault, but as the movie and several people here already pointed out, Ben’s heart was already the dark side’s. In other words, Snoke had already corrupted him.
And what is Snoke? He’s leading an organization that after TLJ seems as unstoppable and powerful as the Empire. He’s a master of the dark side that seduced the most promising of Luke’s students to the dark side and ultimately brought the war back to the galaxy. He’s the key figure of this trilogy. And since this is Episode VII and VIII, and RotJ was VI, we won’t have prequels to the ST explaining everything. So what we’re arguing is that they should’ve developed Snoke more. Not necessarily the regular character development that most characters get, but simply showing a bit of where he came from and his motivations and powers, and how he influenced so many people to the point of creating the First Order, powerful as it is, from the ashes of a fallen empire. Im not even talking about flashbacks or any of that, but just some expository dialogue between Snoke and Rey and Kylo in the throne room, or between Luke and Rey, simply so that we understand how it went from peace post-RotJ to what happened in the past 2 films.
Collipso are you the guy who has refused to watch The Last Jedi or is that ray_afraid? I thought I read somewhere back in the thread that one of you guys hasn’t even watched the film?
I’m actually far from mad - I really enjoyed the film! I don’t much like reading whining though. Maybe it’s from being British…
Between General Hux and the UK Parliament, I’m doubt it. But there are enough UK members of this forum to convince me that movie criticism is alive and well in Britain.
The blue elephant in the room.
Mrebo, it’s a false equivalency.
There are those online who have declared The Last Jedi a box office turkey, and yes it has performed significantly worse than The Force Awakens did.
However - this false equivalency fails to note that The Force Awakens was the 3rd highest grossing movie of all time. The Last Jedi has in fact already earned a staggering $1.3 billion and is one of the top ten most successful movies of all time.
There are those who have declared that The Last Jedi is a bad SW movie, nowhere near as good as Empire Strikes Back.
However - this false equivalency fails to note that Empire Strikes Back was recently voted the best movie of all time by Empire magazine. Naturally, comparing any movie to the best movie of all time is always going to result in it appearing second rate.
Compare like for like. Compare The Last Jedi (2017) to the other films released for family audiences in 2017. That’s fair, that’s sensible, that’s equivalent. It doesn’t ‘skew’ the results to create a false narrative. It gives a genuine picture of the quality when measured against its peers (which are exactly the like of Pirates Of The Carribean, Justice League, and Transformers The Last Knight).
This is one of the reasons why we still need professional critics. People who can be trusted, unlike youtubers, to have seen a lot of films and possess an understanding of where the benchmark line is set.
Mrebo, it’s a false equivalency.
There are those online who have declared The Last Jedi a box office turkey, and yes it has performed significantly worse than The Force Awakens did.
However - this false equivalency fails to note that The Force Awakens was the 3rd highest grossing movie of all time. The Last Jedi has in fact already earned a staggering $1.3 billion and is one of the top ten most successful movies of all time.
There are those who have declared that The Last Jedi is a bad SW movie, nowhere near as good as Empire Strikes Back.
However - this false equivalency fails to note that Empire Strikes Back was recently voted the best movie of all time by Empire magazine. Naturally, comparing any movie to the best movie of all time is always going to result in it appearing second rate.
Compare like for like. Compare The Last Jedi (2017) to the other films released for family audiences in 2017. That’s fair, that’s sensible, that’s equivalent. It doesn’t ‘skew’ the results to create a false narrative. It gives a genuine picture of the quality when measured against its peers (which are exactly the like of Pirates Of The Carribean, Justice League, and Transformers The Last Knight).
This is one of the reasons why we still need professional critics. People who can be trusted, unlike youtubers, to have seen a lot of films and possess an understanding of where the benchmark line is set.
Oy.
The blue elephant in the room.
Mrebo, it’s a false equivalency.
There are those online who have declared The Last Jedi a box office turkey, and yes it has performed significantly worse than The Force Awakens did.
However - this false equivalency fails to note that The Force Awakens was the 3rd highest grossing movie of all time. The Last Jedi has in fact already earned a staggering $1.3 billion and is one of the top ten most successful movies of all time.
There are those who have declared that The Last Jedi is a bad SW movie, nowhere near as good as Empire Strikes Back.
However - this false equivalency fails to note that Empire Strikes Back was recently voted the best movie of all time by Empire magazine. Naturally, comparing any movie to the best movie of all time is always going to result in it appearing second rate.
Compare like for like. Compare The Last Jedi (2017) to the other films released for family audiences in 2017. That’s fair, that’s sensible, that’s equivalent. It doesn’t ‘skew’ the results to create a false narrative. It gives a genuine picture of the quality when measured against its peers (which are exactly the like of Pirates Of The Carribean, Justice League, and Transformers The Last Knight).
This is one of the reasons why we still need professional critics. People who can be trusted, unlike youtubers, to have seen a lot of films and possess an understanding of where the benchmark line is set.
It’s still a Star Wars movie though. I understand where you’re coming from but if Star Wars movies before The Last Jedi have hit certain marks that TLJ didn’t, then it’s TLJ’s fault.
Did you even watch the video? You’re basically bashing youtubes
Collipso are you the guy who has refused to watch The Last Jedi or is that ray_afraid? I thought I read somewhere back in the thread that one of you guys hasn’t even watched the film?
I haven’t seen it. I haven’t “refused” to see it, I just don’t care to.
Collipso are you the guy who has refused to watch The Last Jedi or is that ray_afraid? I thought I read somewhere back in the thread that one of you guys hasn’t even watched the film?
I haven’t seen it. I haven’t “refused” to see it, I just don’t care to.
Why you crack posting in this thread then?
Collipso are you the guy who has refused to watch The Last Jedi or is that ray_afraid? I thought I read somewhere back in the thread that one of you guys hasn’t even watched the film?
I haven’t seen it. I haven’t “refused” to see it, I just don’t care to.
Why you crack posting in this thread then?
I have no idea what that means.
https://youtu.be/9eJXB0FQPD0 - good analysis on why Snoke in the ST doesn’t work like Palpatine worked in the OT.
Just what we all need, another no-name youtuber giving his reasons why nu star wars sux.
Maybe you should watch the video before trashing it. Just a thought.