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Post #1166061

Author
yotsuya
Parent topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1166061/action/topic#1166061
Date created
1-Feb-2018, 11:52 AM

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

chyron8472 said:

You do not let the movies tell you a story on their own terms. You want it to be on your terms and are angry and frustrated that it doesn’t work that way. If you were willing to let the films tell their own stories and expand your understanding of the universe as you acquire more information about it, you would be able to accept and enjoy it.

I have to agree with your assessment, though I think your last paragraph is a bit off topic. DrDre was expecting ROTJ hero Luke, not old Mentor Luke. Such a fall is a mythic trope. I don’t know what some others were expecting, but whatever they expected they were disappointed.

I think this is inaccurate and an oversimplification. Time and time again we get these arguments, that us critics didn’t like TLJ, because of expectations and what not. It’s not about wanting hero Luke. It’s about what means are used to achieve what ends. The OT is in part about Luke’s growth as a character. In TLJ Luke has regressed to a deplorable state. Is this problematic in of itself? No, not at all. However, the means by which this was achieved, and to what ends, is what makes TLJ a bad Star Wars film in my view. The means, a sixty second flashback, is far too compressed IMO. It makes Luke’s transition from hero and Jedi to curmudgeon, who abandons his family, friends, and the GFAA at large, just not believable to me. This situation is compounded by the ends, which ultimately amount to a big reset in the Star Wars universe, where an even smaller rebel force has to fight another tyrannical regime, while another new hope has to somehow reinvigorate the Jedi.

So, for me personally deconstructing Luke Skywalker, while jarring, might have been worth the journey, if the franchise really went in an interesting new direction, whilst respecting the underlying themes of the overarching saga as set up by Lucas. However, since the ST for me personally amounts to little more than a reboot, whilst undoing almost everything the OT’s heroes achieved on a personal and macroscopic scale, I just disagree with the idea that the ST films tell their own stories and expand our understanding of the universe. It’s story consists of a mishmash of OT story threads, held together by a plot designed to defy expectations, and to avoid the OT’s resolutions. At the same time it provides very little understanding how and why the GFFA regressed back to the OT’s macrostate, because the film is too preoccupied with pulling the rug from under our feet at almost every turn, in my humble opinion of course.

The ST is like a rollercoaster. There’s fun and excitement to be found around every unexpected twist and turn, but ultimately the journey just leads back to the beginning of the ride, which makes it pretty pointless, if like me you wanted to go places.

Yes, that was oversimplified. But it is clear you had expectations and that you didn’t like where things went and that you didn’t really find the film engaging. But the thing I have problems with is because of that you have created a conspiracy theory that this was done deliberately to reboot the series and piss off long-time fans. There is not foundation or evidence for that. Rian Johnson made what he felt was the right middle chapter of the trilogy to grow the characters and set things up for the final episode. He wrote it before TFA came out and before fans spent two years building things up about things he didn’t consider important. And as proof that he did not do what you claim, I, a 1977 fan who saw the original film 10 times before July 1979 and has seen every film in the theaters and bought the home video versions, do find his story to be very well done and to fit perfectly with the OT. Right now I consider TLJ and Rogue One to be tied for fourth place of all time best Star Wars films. I loved it. So, far from disappointing me or pissing me off, he met my expectations, which was to get a good story that furthered the characters and universe. But, regardless of the other aspects of your feelings on TLJ, it is clear you had expectations that colored your interpretation and enjoyment of the film. People are entitled to have expectations and not enjoy films based on that (even a trailer can give people expectations), but I feel that you need to keep expectations to a minimum and just try to enjoy it for what it is. That was my philosophy for the prequels and now the sequels. I has been my philosophy on Star Trek and Doctor Who as well. So far Star Trek is the only one to truly disappoint me.