Why didn’t the Death Star just jump in a position where it could immediately fire at Yavin 4, instead of circling the planet for half an hour?
Because it was clearly tracking/following the Millennium Falcon. The film shows the Falcon, having come out of hyperspace, arriving at a big red planet and flying under (around) it to a little blue planet. It makes sense that the DS would follow suit and assess things from there.
I don’t think there’s any question that the Death Star has hyperspace capabilities.
It was not something shown or stated in ANH. I don’t think it was meant to be an issue either way. That was something truly not important to the movie.
Anyway, I’ve explained what I think are some pretty obvious differences in the two situations.
I don’t think you have.
Disagreement is one thing but don’t deny obvious differences I’ve stated above.
To recap, assuming DS does hyperspace:
(1) ANH-only 30 minutes; TLJ-unknown amount of time, at least many hours
(2) ANH-DS jumps must take enormous energy; not as big a deal for normal ships
The blue elephant in the room.
I don’t think there’s any question that the Death Star has hyperspace capabilities.
It was not something shown or stated in ANH. I don’t think it was meant to be an issue either way. That was something truly not important to the movie.
Anyway, I’ve explained what I think are some pretty obvious differences in the two situations.
I don’t think you have.
Disagreement is one thing but don’t deny obvious differences I’ve stated above.
To recap, assuming DS does hyperspace:
(1) ANH-only 30 minutes; TLJ-unknown amount of time, at least many hours
(2) ANH-DS jumps must take enormous energy; not as big a deal for normal ships
I’m not going to get in a big debate about this but suffice to say it’s just silly inconsequential nitpicks either way.
Why didn’t the Death Star just jump in a position where it could immediately fire at Yavin 4, instead of circling the planet for half an hour?
Because it was clearly tracking/following the Millennium Falcon. The film shows the Falcon, having come out of hyperspace, arriving at a big red planet and flying under (around) it to a little blue planet. It makes sense that the DS would follow suit and assess things from there.
Wouldn’t the tracking device show them where exactly the Falcon is in relation to the planet?
My own explanation is that there are certain hyperspace routes, which are safe to travel. Outside of these routes, you can only go under light speed. The DS could only enter Yavin’s orbit at this specific point.
The same thing applies to TLJ. Once the Resistance ships were fleeing, the nearest hyperspace access point was behind them, so the FO couldn’t simply jump ahead.
Ceci n’est pas une signature.
I don’t think there’s any question that the Death Star has hyperspace capabilities.
It was not something shown or stated in ANH. I don’t think it was meant to be an issue either way. That was something truly not important to the movie.
Anyway, I’ve explained what I think are some pretty obvious differences in the two situations.
I don’t think you have.
Disagreement is one thing but don’t deny obvious differences I’ve stated above.
To recap, assuming DS does hyperspace:
(1) ANH-only 30 minutes; TLJ-unknown amount of time, at least many hours
(2) ANH-DS jumps must take enormous energy; not as big a deal for normal shipsI’m not going to get in a big debate about this but suffice to say it’s just silly inconsequential nitpicks either way.
Yeah, I agree. It’s a sort-of-kind-of interesting discussion though.
But the movie seems as interested in the science behind it as I am- Not at all.
Just decide what works for you, and that works! Fun!
I don’t think there’s any question that the Death Star has hyperspace capabilities.
It was not something shown or stated in ANH. I don’t think it was meant to be an issue either way. That was something truly not important to the movie.
Anyway, I’ve explained what I think are some pretty obvious differences in the two situations.
I don’t think you have.
Disagreement is one thing but don’t deny obvious differences I’ve stated above.
To recap, assuming DS does hyperspace:
(1) ANH-only 30 minutes; TLJ-unknown amount of time, at least many hours
(2) ANH-DS jumps must take enormous energy; not as big a deal for normal shipsI’m not going to get in a big debate about this but suffice to say it’s just silly inconsequential nitpicks either way.
We must have different ideas about what constitutes silly inconsequential nitpicks. When I watch a movie and I wonder why didn’t character X just do Y, especially given the situation, that seems an entirely reasonable criticism. This extends to any movie.
That’s not to say I think these are the biggest issues ever. Asking why a FO ship didn’t make a short jump ahead is not well answered by “that’s a nitpick I refuse to discuss.” But of course you don’t need to discuss anything.
The blue elephant in the room.
I don’t think there’s any question that the Death Star has hyperspace capabilities.
It was not something shown or stated in ANH. I don’t think it was meant to be an issue either way. That was something truly not important to the movie.
Anyway, I’ve explained what I think are some pretty obvious differences in the two situations.
I don’t think you have.
Disagreement is one thing but don’t deny obvious differences I’ve stated above.
To recap, assuming DS does hyperspace:
(1) ANH-only 30 minutes; TLJ-unknown amount of time, at least many hours
(2) ANH-DS jumps must take enormous energy; not as big a deal for normal shipsI’m not going to get in a big debate about this but suffice to say it’s just silly inconsequential nitpicks either way.
Yeah, I agree. It’s a sort-of-kind-of interesting discussion though.
But the movie seems as interested in the science behind it as I am- Not at all.
Just decide what works for you, and that works! Fun!
Exactly.
The Death Star is as big as a small moon. You probably want to jump in and out where you’re less likely to run into something. It might even tax the systems needed to power the superlaser. Even the second Death Star can’t pop off several shots at once.
There’s also the psychological terror aspect of seeing that indestructable sucker slowly coming at you. Everyone on Alderaan had plenty of time to contemplate their doom even if they didn’t know what the DS was going to do.
Where were you in '77?
A giant globe that blows up planets isn’t powered by science.
Think about the convieniece in the first movie. The driods just happen to get picked by Jawas that stop first at the Lars homestead. The one homestead with a connection to Kenobi. Any other would have done as far as R2 is concerned because Luke want part of his plan, but Luke is crutial to GL’s script. Star Wars has a lot of convenient plot points like that. Usually we don’t think about them.
MST3K has called such things Plot Convenience Playhouse. 😛
Where were you in '77?
The Death Star is as big as a small moon. You probably want to jump in and out where you’re less likely to run into something. It might even tax the systems needed to power the superlaser. Even the second Death Star can’t pop off several shots at once.
There’s also the psychological terror aspect of seeing that indestructable sucker slowly coming at you. Everyone on Alderaan had plenty of time to contemplate their doom even if they didn’t know what the DS was going to do.
Agree on all points.
The blue elephant in the room.
A giant globe that blows up planets isn’t powered by science.
It still inspired those with expensive dreams of blowing stuff up. 😉
Where were you in '77?
I was always fine with the DS taking weeks or something to get to Yavin (not that I gave it much thought). It gave time to analyze the plans to find a weakness. Unless Galen left an “x” where the weakness was so they could find it in under an hour. That’s possible I suppose.
The blue elephant in the room.
Unless Galen left an “x” where the weakness was so they could find it in under an hour. That’s possible I suppose.
I’d think someone else woulda’ seen the “X MARKS THE SPOT!” before the rebels ever stole the plans.
My rating for TLJ has now fallen to a 3/5 to a 2.5/5.
The only thing I liked in this movie was Rey and Kylo Ren. That was literally it.
I sort of dislike Rian Johnson’s style. He just seems like some egoist that thinks he needed to ‘bend genres’ and ‘break tropes’ and ‘be shocking and Avant-garde’ to prove how Nolanesque he is or something. Not someone who’s suited to make a blockbuster movie.
Every bad decision in this film is being defended as if the filmmakers were shackled to the story and the thing just wrote itself (“that’s what’s realistic”). Sorry, but as someone who’s a film major, that’s not how the force works.
I’m glad some of you got joy out of this movie, but if Luke can turn his back on his sister and friends, I can turn my back on Star Wars. Solo is probably the last one I’ll see, as I’m actually looking forward to that one.
EDIT: Apologies for originally saying I hate Rian Johnson 😉. Hating a director you don’t know is silly. His filmmaking just rubbed me wrong, personally.
We’ll be demanding proof that you won’t be seeing Episode IX of course. 😉
Where were you in '77?
Do you need proof that I didn’t go see this one?
I can’t show you an anti-receipt, but I didn’t go.
(JEDIT- that’s not meant to be a slam against anything. I’m not on a crusade. I’m just not interested)
We’ll be demanding proof that you won’t be seeing Episode IX of course. 😉
Haha–I’ll probably end up getting excited by the trailers and seeing it within the first month.
I’m an unstubborn corporate tool!
Do you need proof that I didn’t go see this one?
I can’t show you an anti-receipt, but I didn’t go.(JEDIT- that’s not meant to be a slam against anything. I’m not on a crusade. I’m just not interested)
He’s just referencing the tendency for mad people to get mad and say they are done with Star Wars and then they go see the next one anyway.
JEDIT: He got what SilverWook was saying.
Why didn’t the Death Star just jump in a position where it could immediately fire at Yavin 4, instead of circling the planet for half an hour?
I never thought of the Death Star having hyperspace capability. As we try to rationalize travel times in a sciencey way that probably isn’t very realistic. But such is the burden of trying to make space fantasy = science. But let’s follow that thread. I think it very likely that in calculating the hyperspace jump, they didn’t account for the location of the orbit. Some slight additional travel time might be expected (in the movie, half an hour) to adjust, but that’s no big deal. Any jump with something the size of the Death Star would presumably expend a tremendous amount of energy. Just makes sense to finish the last 30 minutes of the journey in normal space.
Getting back to TLJ situation: the chase could go on for another day or longer. I don’t recall if the FO somehow knew exactly how much fuel they had. We know that the ships in question, in the movie, absolutely do have hyperspace capability. That should answer how the two situations are different.
In A New Hope the Falcon jump to hyperspace to escape the Death Star and go to Yavin 4. The Death Star is right behind them and the only way that could happen is if the Death Star has a hyperdrive. It’s there in the original story as it played in 1977. I think the reason is that Capital ships Star Destroyers and larger have a hard time making smaller jumps. And they’d have to time it just right so that the ship they’re chasing doesn’t see them and evade them, so it’s not really a valid flaw that the first order ships didn’t do a mini jump to get ahead of the resistance Cruiser.
My rating for TLJ has now fallen to a 3/5 to a 2.5/5.
The only thing I liked in this movie was Rey and Kylo Ren. That was literally it.
I sort of dislike Rian Johnson’s style. He just seems like some egoist that thinks he needed to ‘bend genres’ and ‘break tropes’ and ‘be shocking and Avant-garde’ to prove how Nolanesque he is or something.
If you think TLJ is avant-garde, I don’t know what to tell you.
Every bad decision in this film is being defended as if the filmmakers were shackled to the story and the thing just wrote itself (“that’s what’s realistic”). Sorry, but as someone who’s a film major, that’s not how the force works.
Hahahahahahaha
Do you need proof that I didn’t go see this one?
I can’t show you an anti-receipt, but I didn’t go.(JEDIT- that’s not meant to be a slam against anything. I’m not on a crusade. I’m just not interested)
He’s just referencing the tendency for mad people to get mad and say they are done with Star Wars and then they go see the next one anyway.
JEDIT: He got what SilverWook was saying.
Ah, yeah I see.
My rating for TLJ has now fallen to a 3/5 to a 2.5/5.
The only thing I liked in this movie was Rey and Kylo Ren. That was literally it.
I sort of dislike Rian Johnson’s style. He just seems like some egoist that thinks he needed to ‘bend genres’ and ‘break tropes’ and ‘be shocking and Avant-garde’ to prove how Nolanesque he is or something. Not someone who’s suited to make a blockbuster movie.
Every bad decision in this film is being defended as if the filmmakers were shackled to the story and the thing just wrote itself (“that’s what’s realistic”). Sorry, but as someone who’s a film major, that’s not how the force works.
I’m glad some of you got joy out of this movie, but if Luke can turn his back on his sister and friends, I can turn my back on Star Wars. Solo is probably the last one I’ll see, as I’m actually looking forward to that one.EDIT: Apologies for originally saying I hate Rian Johnson 😉. Hating a director you don’t know is silly. His filmmaking just rubbed me wrong, personally.
People can do inexplicable things after a tragedy. If that rubs you the wrong way that’s great. Do you have a nice honest opinion about why you don’t like it - fine by me. But the one thing I did doing preparation to see this movie is I found out that Rian Johnson had been inspired by three movies and I looked them up and found out what they’re about and watched two of them. I’m trying to watch the third one right now. And I wouldn’t call any of his storytelling avant-garde or new because none of that he was looking at less than 50 years old. One of them, Twelve O’clock High, was a big influence on George Lucas’s plans for the first Death Star Battle. Ryan Johnson Drew from it interesting command lessons and a few other things that went deeper into the story. Three Outlaw Samurai has a lot of similarities, though not in plot, to Hidden Fortress, the original plot inspiration for Star Wars.
I personally find Rian Johnson storytelling to be very inspired. I think it’s just the right amount of subtlety and action and makes a perfect complement to the previous movie. Definitely not as subtle as the prequels, but this movie was mostly action with some carefully told character development for each of the main characters. I’m not swear I say settled because on the surface it doesn’t seem like each of those things is terribly important, but when you look at the character development from the last movie to the end of this movie it is a huge jump in these characters development. I love it I love what they did with Luke. Luke was the hero in the original trilogy and this Trilogy he’s not. The success of the original trilogy lasted 10 20 years, we haven’t been given a time frame. And then things went to hell and Luke went from Legend to grumpy old Mentor, which is a classic Mythic trope. And Mark played the role perfectly. I rank this and Rogue one right after the original trilogy in quality. And I find it terribly I’m using that Frink and I agree on this movie because he’s so totally did not agree on The Force Awakens. So I challenge anyone who didn’t like this movie to tune into IX and see what they do before you throw the whole sequel trilogy out the window.
Why didn’t the Death Star just jump in a position where it could immediately fire at Yavin 4, instead of circling the planet for half an hour?
I never thought of the Death Star having hyperspace capability. As we try to rationalize travel times in a sciencey way that probably isn’t very realistic. But such is the burden of trying to make space fantasy = science. But let’s follow that thread. I think it very likely that in calculating the hyperspace jump, they didn’t account for the location of the orbit. Some slight additional travel time might be expected (in the movie, half an hour) to adjust, but that’s no big deal. Any jump with something the size of the Death Star would presumably expend a tremendous amount of energy. Just makes sense to finish the last 30 minutes of the journey in normal space.
Getting back to TLJ situation: the chase could go on for another day or longer. I don’t recall if the FO somehow knew exactly how much fuel they had. We know that the ships in question, in the movie, absolutely do have hyperspace capability. That should answer how the two situations are different.
In A New Hope the Falcon jump to hyperspace to escape the Death Star and go to Yavin 4. The Death Star is right behind them and the only way that could happen is if the Death Star has a hyperdrive. It’s there in the original story as it played in 1977. I think the reason is that Capital ships Star Destroyers and larger have a hard time making smaller jumps. And they’d have to time it just right so that the ship they’re chasing doesn’t see them and evade them, so it’s not really a valid flaw that the first order ships didn’t do a mini jump to get ahead of the resistance Cruiser.
ANH isn’t that clear in terms of timeline but I’m cool with the DS having hyperdrive.
The warp issue is not near the top of the list of issues/questions I have.
You guess at one possible solution: big ships can’t jump very accurately at short distances. I admit, that is a reasonable solution even if we must pull it out of our ears.
Where a movie creates a seeming plothole, inconsistency, or oddity - especially something obvious - it’s perfectly reasonable to ask why. The audience might be expected to guess at answers of their own (or just not think about it, which I think is more likely), but for some portion of the audience it won’t be very satisfying or there may be simply too many unanswered elements.
Some have asked - reasonably, I think - why Luke threw the skull to bring the door down on the Rancor rather than using the Force to press it. It’s not something that entered my mind watching it. The reason I see is that Luke was frantic, not thinking, not sufficiently trained in the ways of the Force - basically everything we see on the screen. Whether that works for you, I can’t say.
The lack of warping just kind of hangs out there. I liked the scene with Canady where Kylo calls him out for not sending out fighters. We didn’t have to try to guess that all the fighters were in the repair shop. Canady was caught flat-footed and what could have been a weird oversight was turned into a good moment. It’s that kind of verisimilitude that keeps an audience’s attention, rather than wondering why something that seems obvious wasn’t done.
The blue elephant in the room.
I am reminded of a frequent point they used to make on the Cracked Podcast about suspension of disbelief. In The Dark Knight Rises, there’s a chase scene where Batman goes into a tunnel in broad daylight and exits at night. This is absolutely a textbook hole in the movie, but when the movie came out almost everyone didn’t notice it until it was pointed out to them. The Cracked folks considered this a mark of effective movie-making rather than an egregious mistake, because audiences were swept up in the movie enough not to notice that flaw in the logic. That’s how I felt about all of these nitpicks about the in-universe rules of space travel in TLJ. I was engaged enough in the story that was in front of me that I was not giving any thought at all to whether or not it was 100% consistent with the last eight films (which, it’s worth noting, are not entirely consistent with each other either). I get that that’s not enough for everyone, but it’s enough for me.