chyron8472 said:

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

Okay, I actually read the article posted that points out Wil was actually criticizing prayer. (I did not previously read it because I have no interest in Wil Wheaton’s personal views.)

But regardless of Wil’s ignorant blathering, it still is not a good idea.

I continue to fail to understand why praying for the victims or asking people to pray for the victims is not a good idea. The thing that isn’t a good idea, is the decision to do nothing else.

It’s because your relationship with God is your relationship. You can fellowship with others in that relationship, and you can come to Him, but it is inappropriate to put yourself in a position where you even accidentally construe yourself as disingenuous.

I am pretty sure there were times when people wrong thought Christ was disingenuous. That didn’t stop Christ from doing what he was doing.

Wil’s reaction is ignorant, but it wouldn’t have happened if such a declaration wasn’t public. Having a relationship with God is a very personal thing. A call to prayer should be equally personal. Just throwing that request out into the wind for everyone to hear is not.

Suffice it to say, it is still possible to do the wrong thing for the right reason.

Yeah, but I don’t pray or ask for prayer is the wrong thing, if it is done for the right reason.

TV’s Frink said:

http://wilwheaton.net/2017/11/point-of-clarification/

“I am so sick and angry that this keeps happening. America is the only first world country where we do nothing while our fellow humans are slaughtered by entirely preventable gun violence every day.

“People like Paul Ryan can write and pass laws that can address this epidemic of gun violence, which should be considered a public health crisis, but instead, Paul Ryan and people like him offer “thoughts and prayers” as a shield for their inaction.

“I heard privately from some close friends who are people of sincere Faith, and they were concerned that my anger at Paul Ryan would be misread as an attack on people of Faith. I want and need to apologize to anyone who felt like I was attacking them, or their faith (unless that person is Paul Ryan). I respect your Faith, even if I do not share it. I respect that prayer brings comfort and strength and guidance for a lot of people, and if you are one of those people, praying for God to bring comfort and strength to the families and friends of the victims and survivors is a deeply meaningful act.

“I am not attacking you or your Faith, and I see that in my anger, I didn’t write my thoughts as clearly as I could have. For that I sincerely apologize to anyone who I offended or hurt. I can’t take it back, but I can tell you that it was never my intention, nor is it my belief.

“I am angry at people like Paul Ryan who are quick to offer their thoughts and prayers after mass murder, but who refuse to do anything to even attempt to slow or stop the epidemic of gun violence that plagues America. He and people like him are hoping that you will give him a pass and let him exploit your Faith so he can continue to shrug his shoulders, take money from the NRA, and do absolutely nothing else.

“So just to be crystal clear: I apologize to those of you who are sincere people of Faith, who felt attacked by me. That was not my intention.”

To the professional atheists out there who are endlessly cruel, condescending, and dismissive toward people of Faith: I am not your ally and I’m not on your team. Don’t claim me as one of your own, because the right wing noise machine misinterpreted what I said (and I will do better in the future, to prevent my words from being misunderstood and misconstrued so easily).

To anyone who believes that my anger at Paul Ryan’s empty words is in any way directed toward the victims of gun violence: Attacking the victims, the survivors, or the victim’s families of any mass shooting, the way Alex Jones does with his false flag lies, is despicable and inexcusable. I want to be very clear: I was not and I am not attacking anyone who was in that church, I am not mocking their Faith. I don’t believe that a reasonable person would believe that I was, but because that lie has taken hold as a narrative, it’s important to me that I restate this, once again: Paul Ryan hides behind empty words about thoughts and prayers, exploiting the real and sincere beliefs held by people of Faith. He and people like him offer words without deeds over and over again, and I’m sick and tired of it. That is what I am attacking, and that is what I am angry about.

Fox News and its allies are working really hard to deflect attention and anger away from the role that unfettered access to weapons of mass murder played in the latest incidence of mass murder in America. Fox News and its allies want you to be angry at something they mislead you into believing I said, so you will take the anger and sorrow and desire for action you feel after a mass shooting, and aim it at me, instead of holding the people in power who could prevent this to account. Fox News, Paul Ryan, and their allies are counting on their ability to fool you into believing their lies, so they can continue to do nothing until the next mass shooting, when they’ll offer thoughts and prayers but no action.

Once again, to people of Faith who find comfort and strength in prayer: I am not mocking or belittling or attacking you or your relationship with God, and if you felt that I was, I hope you will accept this apology.

I will not apologize for being angry at Paul Ryan and people like him who have words but no deeds, and I hope that people of Faith will hold him to account.

Perhaps I misunderstood him then.

Tyrphanax said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

With all due respect to people’s religions, it irks me when politicians tell me that I need to pray. I’m not religious, and we are supposedly in a country that values separation of church and state. Yet every time some catastrophe happens, the first thing politicians tell us is that we need to pray. Not “pray if you’re religious”, but “we need to pray”. While I don’t mind if people want to pray, I don’t appreciate politicians telling me that I need to become religious.

It’s not a big deal, it just irks me. I realize I’m probably in an extreme minority.

Eh, there’s this whole “separation of church and state” thing that literally everyone seems to have utterly forgotten in this country, so you’re not alone there.

No one is forcing anyone to pray.

Frank your Majesty said:

Warbler said:

Frank your Majesty said:

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

But again, I criticize the insincerity; the disingenuousness. That they likely use a call to prayer to gain popularity with people of faith than actually being genuine in their own faith.

Then criticize them for being disingenuous, not the prayer itself.

That’s exactly what people were doing here.

That doesn’t sound like what Wheaton said.

I specifically said “here”. I don’t understand how you missed that.

you’re right. I missed what you said. sorry.

chyron8472 said:

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

Warbler said:

I don’t know that he was saying never pray publicly, just don’t do it if you are only doing to be seen doing it.

Even so, that is what they were doing; or if it was not, it is unclear that it was not. Which makes it a bad idea either way and means it still is relevant.

It is unclear to YOU. It is not unclear to person doing the public praying or to God. If I pray publicly and my motivation is unclear to You, I am still going to pray. I know my real motivation and so does God.

Let me be clear about “publicly.” There is a difference between you praying and being in a place where people see you do it, and doing it with the intent or in the knowledge of people watching or else calling other people to do it in a non-worship setting.

Calling fellow believers to pray in a setting among them is different from calling anyone and everyone via social media or television broadcast.

Sorry but asking for prayer via social media or television broadcast doesn’t seem wrong to me(unless done disingenuously).

CatBus said:

Warbler said:

CatBus said:

Since it’s too late to change the name on the ballot, Republicans may attempt some sort of “refuse to seat him/he resigns/appoint new Senator” gambit, which basically amounts to “you’re just voting for the Republican ticket, not this particular Republican. Trust us to sort out the details.”

mayhaps.

My mistake. This is the tactic they’re taking.

“Take the Bible. Zachariah and Elizabeth for instance. Zachariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist,” Ziegler said choosing his words carefully before invoking Christ. “Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.”

Actual quote from the Alabama State Auditor, defending Roy Moore. Not denying it, just saying preying on teenagers is Biblically justified.

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

Warbler said:

I don’t know that he was saying never pray publicly, just don’t do it if you are only doing to be seen doing it.

Even so, that is what they were doing; or if it was not, it is unclear that it was not. Which makes it a bad idea either way and means it still is relevant.

It is unclear to YOU. It is not unclear to person doing the public praying or to God. If I pray publicly and my motivation is unclear to You, I am still going to pray. I know my real motivation and so does God.

Let me be clear about “publicly.” There is a difference between you praying and being in a place where people see you do it, and doing it with the intent or in the knowledge of people watching or else calling other people to do it in a non-worship setting.

Calling fellow believers to pray in a setting among them is different from calling anyone and everyone via social media or television broadcast.

Sorry but asking for prayer via social media or television broadcast doesn’t seem wrong to me(unless done disingenuously).

Everything Paul Ryan does is disingenuous.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

Warbler said:

I don’t know that he was saying never pray publicly, just don’t do it if you are only doing to be seen doing it.

Even so, that is what they were doing; or if it was not, it is unclear that it was not. Which makes it a bad idea either way and means it still is relevant.

It is unclear to YOU. It is not unclear to person doing the public praying or to God. If I pray publicly and my motivation is unclear to You, I am still going to pray. I know my real motivation and so does God.

Let me be clear about “publicly.” There is a difference between you praying and being in a place where people see you do it, and doing it with the intent or in the knowledge of people watching or else calling other people to do it in a non-worship setting.

Calling fellow believers to pray in a setting among them is different from calling anyone and everyone via social media or television broadcast.

Sorry but asking for prayer via social media or television broadcast doesn’t seem wrong to me(unless done disingenuously).

Everything Paul Ryan does is disingenuous.

mayhaps. But I am not a mind reader.

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

Warbler said:

chyron8472 said:

Warbler said:

I don’t know that he was saying never pray publicly, just don’t do it if you are only doing to be seen doing it.

Even so, that is what they were doing; or if it was not, it is unclear that it was not. Which makes it a bad idea either way and means it still is relevant.

It is unclear to YOU. It is not unclear to person doing the public praying or to God. If I pray publicly and my motivation is unclear to You, I am still going to pray. I know my real motivation and so does God.

Let me be clear about “publicly.” There is a difference between you praying and being in a place where people see you do it, and doing it with the intent or in the knowledge of people watching or else calling other people to do it in a non-worship setting.

Calling fellow believers to pray in a setting among them is different from calling anyone and everyone via social media or television broadcast.

Sorry but asking for prayer via social media or television broadcast doesn’t seem wrong to me(unless done disingenuously).

Everything Paul Ryan does is disingenuous.

mayhaps. But I am not a mind reader.

Oh

TM2YC said:

Warbler said:

Tyrphanax said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

With all due respect to people’s religions, it irks me when politicians tell me that I need to pray. I’m not religious, and we are supposedly in a country that values separation of church and state. Yet every time some catastrophe happens, the first thing politicians tell us is that we need to pray. Not “pray if you’re religious”, but “we need to pray”. While I don’t mind if people want to pray, I don’t appreciate politicians telling me that I need to become religious.

It’s not a big deal, it just irks me. I realize I’m probably in an extreme minority.

Eh, there’s this whole “separation of church and state” thing that literally everyone seems to have utterly forgotten in this country, so you’re not alone there.

No one is forcing anyone to pray.

Correct me if I’m wrong (which I probably am) but haven’t school kids been required to hold their hands on their hearts and recite “Under god” everyday since 1954? Seems close enough to mandatory prayer to me.

You are talking about the Pledge of the Allegiance. I would not object to the words “Under God” being removed from it, especially since those words weren’t originally in the Pledge.

I would not object to the pledge being removed.

*sigh*

Are you ex*sigh*table?

*sigh*

Are you ex*sigh*table?

*SIGH*

Are you ex*sigh*table?

*SIGH*

Are you ex*sigh*table?

*SIGH*

Warbler said:

Jeebus said:

Warbler said:

Why do fellow members of my gender have to act like such idiots. KEEP YOUR HANDS TO YOURSELF!!

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I don’t care how much you give me, I may get corrupted because I am human, but I will never stick my hands on a woman where they don’t belong.

yhwx said:

Jeebus said:

Warbler said:

Why do fellow members of my gender have to act like such idiots. KEEP YOUR HANDS TO YOURSELF!!

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

This has to more to do than just power.

Maybe there’s something about Hollywood that attracts that sort of person. Or, even scarier, perhaps that sort of person is just much more likely to succeed.

https://www.alternet.org/culture/10-careers-most-psychopaths

http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/features/psychopaths-top-10-and-bottom-10-professions

The system works!

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-judge-20171110-story.html

Brett J. Talley, President Trump’s nominee to be a federal judge in Alabama, has never tried a case, was unanimously rated “not qualified” by the American Bar Assn.’s judicial rating committee, has practiced law for only three years and, as a blogger last year, displayed a degree of partisanship unusual for a judicial nominee, denouncing “Hillary Rotten Clinton” and pledging support for the National Rifle Assn.

On Thursday, the Senate Judiciary Committee, on a party-line vote, approved him for a lifetime appointment to the federal bench.

Talley, 36, is part of what Trump has called the “untold story” of his success in filling the courts with young conservatives.

“The judge story is an untold story. Nobody wants to talk about it,” Trump said last month, standing alongside Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) in the White House Rose Garden. “But when you think of it, Mitch and I were saying, that has consequences 40 years out, depending on the age of the judge — but 40 years out.”

Civil rights groups and liberal advocates see the matter differently. They denounced Thursday’s vote, calling it “laughable” that none of the committee Republicans objected to confirming a lawyer with as little experience as Talley to preside over federal trials.

“He’s practiced law for less than three years and never argued a motion, let alone brought a case. This is the least amount of experience I’ve seen in a judicial nominee,” said Kristine Lucius, executive vice president of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights.

Jeebus said:

Warbler said:

Jeebus said:

Warbler said:

Why do fellow members of my gender have to act like such idiots. KEEP YOUR HANDS TO YOURSELF!!

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I don’t care how much you give me, I may get corrupted because I am human, but I will never stick my hands on a woman where they don’t belong.

yhwx said:

Jeebus said:

Warbler said:

Why do fellow members of my gender have to act like such idiots. KEEP YOUR HANDS TO YOURSELF!!

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

This has to more to do than just power.

Maybe there’s something about Hollywood that attracts that sort of person. Or, even scarier, perhaps that sort of person is just much more likely to succeed.

https://www.alternet.org/culture/10-careers-most-psychopaths

http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/features/psychopaths-top-10-and-bottom-10-professions

It’s not specific to Hollywood, it’s everywhere. The only reason we’re hearing about this stuff from Hollywood is because we know those peoples names, and often the names of the victims. People in less famous professions aren’t so lucky (or ones in professions where political affiliation will save you from any amount of heinous crimes).