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Post #1104528

Author
MalàStrana
Parent topic
Ranking the Star Wars films
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1104528/action/topic#1104528
Date created
4-Sep-2017, 4:12 PM

imperialscum said:

DrDre said:

imperialscum said:

DrDre said:

imperialscum said:

DrDre said:

imperialscum said:

ROTJ had some of the best character development in OT. While Han’s character development in ESB was great, I think Luke’s and Vader’s character developments in ROTJ were even a level above that.

I disagree. The Luke/Vader arc was great, but it was the only significant arc in the film. The other characters were just going through the motions, shells of their former selfs. TESB had great arcs for all the main characters. Every character was in a very different place personally at the end of the second installment from where they started off. This puts TESB miles ahead of ROTJ in the character development department.

Different place in terms of character? Not entirely true. For example, Luke does not actually change much in ESB. He is still this enthusiastic and reckless guy as he was at the beginning. He leaves Yoda’s training pretty much the same person (recklessly nonetheless). Leia again does not change much besides finally revealing her feelings to Han. The only one with a significant change is Han’s character. It is unfortunate that Lucas made Leia proclaim her love to Han already in ESB. I think iff he would leave that for ROTJ, those two character could be used way better in ROTJ.

In ROTJ Luke becomes completely different person compared to ANH and ESB. Same goes for Vader. While Vader was likeable and badass in ANH and ESB, he was pretty one dimensional. In ROTJ his character get a lot of depth and becomes very interesting. Even Leia and Han actually get development in ROTJ and are considerably different compared to ANH and ESB. While it might be a development you do not like but it is still a considerable development.

Anyway, I did not say ROTJ is overall the best in terms of character development. I just said that Luke’s and Vader’s character development are individually better than anything seen in ANH or ESB.

Luke doesn’t change much? Seriously? You throw out a pretty part of the story. I think this guy…

You are unable to differentiate between current state of the character due to some external “disturbance” and actual change/development of character. That scene is just Luke still being shocked due to the reveal and due to trauma related to his damn limb being cut off. So what exactly are the actions and dialogue he makes after that scene that indicate any difference (within ESB of course)? In the one scene that is left after that one I do not see any change of character.

I disagree. For one a person who experiences trauma is never the same after such an external “disturbance”. This is the very nature of trauma, and Luke experienced trauma in more ways than just physical injury. He went to Cloud City, believing he might be able to save his friends from the clutches of the man who murdered his father, only to come up one hand short, and discovering that his noble hero father is the ultimate bad guy. A man is, what he believes in, and everything Luke believed, has turned out to be a lie. I would call that a life changing event. The Luke at the end of TESB definitely is no longer the naive young rebel he was at the start of the film. He is now a Jedi in training, who’s life has been turned upside down. The idea that he would just get a new hand, and go on as if nothing has happened (which is what you seem to suggest) is ludricous to me.

I do not necessary disagree with with your assumptions, but if we look at the dry facts, in the one scene that is left in ESB there is nothing that indicates any change in character. There are no actions or dialogue that would indicate so.

He decides to make a jump that could have killed him. For example.