I saw this on the web today along with an "October 18" release date, and just about hit the roof...... but I was just as quickly deflated when I saw "vandammefanz" down at the bottom of the case, LOL. Unbelievable. It was apparently part of an elaborate april fools joke and some people are still believing it.
And believe you me, I WANTED to believe it! hahaha....
Well on just one viewing, I've already learned a lot, LOL. Namely, that compressing something in .RAR format splits a large file into parts, and that uncompressing creates a new file based on the sum of those parts, resulting in the 8GB file. Fortunately my laptop came with an ISO viewer (something else I learned at about 1130 last night) so I immediately loaded up your edit. Overall I was thoroughly impressed your vision... and noticed a lot of similar changes that I would have made as well. It was like watching the movie through new eyes. It had been a few years since my last viewing, but I was still able to see some standout differences from the original version. I wanted to comment on a few things, if you didn't mind. It will probably take another viewing to absorb everything but these were just some things off the top of my head. 1. Different Universal Logo title. Caught me completely off guard. I liked it. Was this the alternate clip you had added from another film? 2. Binder jumping into the shack before it blows up, from the trailer. This was perfect, and exactly how I had imagined it would look. 3. Different music cues. Did you take these from the original CD soundtrack? Overall, I think I really liked these changes. Completely changes the mood and feeling for their respective sequences. ESPECIALLY Chance's street fight after first meeting Natasha. Keeping it closer to Woo's first cut really adds another dimension of suspense and danger to that scene, instead of it just being another scene where Van Damme sleepwalks through a butt-kicking. The two music variations I'm still back-and-forth on are the additional Creedence songs. I love CCR as much as the next guy, but I still haven't made up my mind if I like the addition or not. It could be because I'm so used to hearing Creedence in every single Vietnam War movie ever made. 4. Different plot structure edit. I think you've convinced me to finally realize that Woo's first edit sequence was the best. Keeping the Mr. Zenan meeting before Chance's dogtag discovery makes a lot more sense, and now I'm scratching my head wondering why the US release changed things around. LOVE the transition between Van Cleef plunging the scissors in the door and Fouchon's piano sequence. 5. Mr. Zenan's hunt. I noticed right away the different sound effect you used for his gun. I like it, but again I'm kind of back-and-forth on it. I understand why you did it, since the gun has a suppressor. Speaking of sound effects, I probably did myself an injustice listening to this through headphones on my laptop. Hopefully soon I can get this baby on disc so I can listen to it through surround sound. 6. Overall lighting. I think I may have noticed some scenes being a little 'brighter', did you mention before that you had lightened up the night scenes? 7. Motorcycle surfing scene. PERFECT. I saw where you had trimmed off just enough of the motorcycle stunt where Chance wasn't balancing himself while standing on the bike. That has ALWAYS bugged me and I'm glad to see that it most likely had bugged you, too :) 8. Uncle Douvee montage sequence, when he throws Chance the shotgun. I thought this was beautifully done, and mirrors the Woo edit perfectly, but once I saw it I knew that you were going to have to make some kind of change at the end of the movie, resulting in a quick edit when Chance kicks the burning plank in half. I'm really torn on this. I like the montage in BOTH sequences, so I really don't know what choice I'll make when it comes time to put my edit together. 9. The final gunbattle. Great as always, I didn't really notice very many changes except for the part when Chance hits Jerome at the top of the stairs. Did you flip another scene with Jerome to get that effect? I'll have to watch again to get a better look. I imagine it was probably tough to get it to look and flow just right so I commend your decision in doing that... I know that in the rough cut you can actually see Jerome getting shot but the quality is just too bad. That would probably be one of the areas I would try to work on cleaning up when I get around to working on an edit. Incidentally, there are a TON of scenes I'd like to clean up, but am wary of the time it's going to take to do that. 10. The wipe transition when Fouchon finds dead Van Cleef. This was probably, overall, the one thing that stood out to me that I was unsure of. But you know, I am racking my brain trying to figure out what was originally there in the US version? I think it could work maybe... I don't know, it still sticks out in my mind. Maybe it happens too quickly after Chance aces Van Cleef... which might be why the US version added a short scene of something in between to break it up a little. And then again it's probably just a preference thing. My overall thoughts of your edit are that I want to congratulate you on such a fantastic job. Changing the music cues and shifting the plot sequences back to the original cut really do wonders in making it more like Woo's original cut. I noticed even more now that I like the bad guys in this movie WAY more than the protagonists, LOL, but I just chalk that up to Henriksen chewing up his lines just as he always does. I also noticed some continuity errors that I'll have to add to my original list that might be able to be fixed in Photoshop (I'll never be able to afford something as grand as Vegas or After Effects so it'll have to be frame by frame for my version unfortunately) But you have indeed inspired me to keep at it, and revive my efforts at making an edit of this movie, no matter how much or little time I can devote to it. As you can guess I will have a lot of questions along each step of the process, so I'll certainly appreciate any help or advice you can offer. Thanks again for all the hard work you put into your edit, you did an awesome job and I was super pumped to be able to finally watch it!
Sweet, I will definitely try that, thanks! As far as the "Redux" version I had no idea there was one, is that a variant of the screener where somebody just tweaked the color saturation like you mentioned? Does that ability come standard with most video-editing programs?
UPDATE: A huge thank-you to the very resourceful dark_jedi.... who has kindly undertaken the first two HUGE steps for me in this project. With his help I now have a perfect conversion of my original source video (the Hard Target UK version) which is now in NTSC format and sounds exactly as it should. He also converted my source video for the Hard Target 'Screener' version, in addition to cropping out the timecodes!
A fantastic start to the project, even if it's going to take me ages to do it, hahaha. I think I will start by reading over the forums, and figuring out what tools and equipment I am going to need to invest in to do this the right way. Sort of a self-paced seminar.... I have so much to learn about this. Above I mentioned experimenting with Audacity to try and isolate a bit of dialogue from the trailer video.... but was unsuccessful in doing so. I will most likely need to find an expert on working with audio/dialogue issues.
After watching HT again I think I figured out that Frack was the guy on the motorcycle that Chance blows up with the gas can late in the movie. I never thought it was him before because the guy was wearing a helmet. Hmm....
UPDATE: Received the soundtrack to "Born on the Fourth" of July last week.
What does this have to do with Hard Target? Well, it's the only CD album in existence that has the "Born on the Bayou" cover by a band called Broken Homes. This same cover was used on the American trailer to Hard Target. Using Audacity (if successful) I will be using the "invert" trick to extract only the dialogue from the trailer. This will give me the dialogue I need to extend a scene with Van Cleaf after the Roper hunt.
Hey dark_jedi,
Hmmm..... I guess I've never thought about that. My guess would be yes, it's PAL format, and the reason for that is I acquired both versions from over in England. I cannot play either version on my DVD player, but both work just fine on my computer.
Thanks reaper :) Yeah, there's always hope they might release it someday. I joked with a friend one time that if I ever won the lottery or made it big in hollywood, one thing I would do is purchase the rights to hard target so I could re-release it myself!
Created a new dvd cover for it over the weekend, it would be pretty nice to use if this project 1) actually gets finished! and 2) is good enough quality to output to play on a dvd player. All images used were from the internet, with a little bit of photoshopping on the back-header as well as the broadhead arrow on the front.
HARD TARGET: EXTENDED CUT
After 20 years, the pipedream of Universal Studios ever releasing a definitive cut of Woo’s first American movie has all but faded into obscurity. Until a few months ago I didn’t even know about this site, much less about “fan-edits” in general. What surprised me even more was running across a few fans on this site who shared the same interest in seeing this film re-imagined.
I have never created a fan-edit before. I also have little experience in video editing. But I have a pretty good idea as to what I would love to see in an extended edition of Hard Target. I’d like to think of this project as a gigantic learning experience, and I can’t wait to start using a lot of the video editing tools mentioned on this site. I’ll use this forum, I guess as a way to documenting my progress.
RESOURCES
Here are the materials I have to work with:
Hard Target, the American theatrical release on DVD, which also includes the American trailer
Hard Target, the 96-minute unrated UK release on DVD
Hard Target, the unreleased 116-minute Sneak-Preview screener version on DVD
Hard Target, the musical score soundtrack from Varese Sarabande on CD
NOTES ABOUT THE VERSIONS
The UK version is superior to the American version in practically every way. I will be using this version as the base to build from. It is in PAL format, so the pitch in the audio is higher. I may need some help or insight as far as altering the video to NTSC format (or at least making it sound like NTSC… again I’m no expert here, haha)
The Sneak-Preview version is what I will be mostly using to add additional scenes. As most Hard Target fans that have seen this version know… it is in rough, rough shape. It also has a timecode stamp on the top and bottom of the screen. I don’t intend to correct, or clean-up the code in any way… I think the quickest way to get past this obstacle is just crop it out. I don’t know how much of the picture is going to be compromised as a result, and maybe it will be a deal breaker… I just won’t know until I get there. I’m hoping that a little color-correction will improve the picture quality, so I will need to learn how to do that eventually. I’m thinking that adjusting the contrast will result in richer black-areas throughout the video… maybe… so much of this version is “washed-out” and over-exposed looking. There are seriously some scenes where you can’t see anything going on.
There are two versions of the film I’ve never seen, the Japanese cut (which I’ve been told is similar to the UK version) and the 128-minute workprint, which apparently has no audio, but I would still love to see to get an idea of what other scenes were cut.
What will result from piecing together the screener version with the UK version, I think will give a much better representation of Woo’s work and style. However I realize that the video quality will not appear consistent, so I’m considering rather than outputting this project to something that can be viewed on your television, maybe it would look better watching it on a smaller format such as a PSP or an IPOD. Unless of course someone knows of a way to work miracles and can improve the quality of the screener visuals to match the UK visuals, and I know that probably can’t be done.
OVERVIEW OF WHAT WILL BE ADDED TO FILM (tentative, I’m sure I didn’t get everything)
2) An extended scene in the screener shows that when Binder makes it to the dock, the other bad guys stop shooting. At that point, only Lopacki is in pursuit, while the rest of the villains merely observe. It’s a nice little element missing from the official release which prompts a first-time viewer to muse, “What exactly is going on here?”
Line of dialogue – after Binder is killed Van Cleaf informs Lopacki that he shoots “like a buffoon” and that next time he’ll be charged double.
Restoring dialogue from screener version – In the café scene, Chance responds to the waitress’ question with “A tragedy!” This bit of dialogue has a different sound in the released versions of the film. In the screener, the take that is used sounds more consistent with the rest of his dialogue.
Extended dialogue – After Natasha learns about her father’s death, she and Chance are talking in what looks like either a bar or a kitchen. Natasha has more lines of dialogue.
Entire new sequence of Chance and Natasha getting to know each other, in the rundown little apartment where Chance lives. This isn’t exactly a “love scene” as some would lead you to believe, but they do kiss, and it is a moment that builds up character development just a bit (something that is sorely lacking in the official release).
Extended scene of Randall’s earlobe getting lopped off. (The censors didn’t say anything about a guy getting his ear gruesomely shot off in Face/Off…. What gives?)
A quick-cut slow motion scene of Det. Mitchell walking towards the autopsy room.
Line of dialogue – before Fouchon knocks the letter-opener off the desk, he gives Dr. Morton a very short anecdote describing how a certain African tribe buries their dead.
Additional scene of Mr. Zenan firing off a few shots before the Roper hunt even begins.
Extended scene of Roper’s death – in the downtown crowd scene at night, at the end of Roper’s hunt, Roper originally stood back up after getting mercilessly shot the first time, only to get shot with a second volley of bullets. This was probably one of best scenes in the screener version that reflected Woo’s heroic bloodshed genre. I really think it adds to Roper’s tragic fall.
Additional scene and dialogue from American trailer – after Roper’s death, Van Cleef walks over to Roper’s body to retrieve the money belt. In an additional take that was left out, Van Cleef mocks Roper’s dead body with “Look at it this way… you’re gonna get to meet Elvis!” If you look closely you can see that Van Cleef is saying this from a different vantage point, probably kneeling down over Roper’s head. But in the final release he is squatted down over on the opposite side of Roper. I think by just flipping the scene from the trailer (and hopefully extracting a cleaner audio sample), that this will make a fine addition to the scene… and make Van Cleef even more of a douche.
Extended footage – during the motorbike chase, Chance and Natasha play chicken with another motorbike, but before that sequence they play chicken with another group of bad guys driving a car, leading to the car ramp-off another vehicle into a fiery explosion, a la The A-Team.
Additional footage – during the motorbike chase, before Chance and Natasha get to the top of the highway railroad overpass (with all the road construction), there is another SUV filled with bad guys that come at them from the opposite direction. They’re going so fast that their bullets miss Chance, but they do manage to hit the motorbike. This is why when they stop at the top of the hill, gas is leaking from bullet-holes in the motorbike.
Additional shot – quick, reverse angle of Chance running past exploded SUV and towards Natasha.
Extended footage – immediately after Chance and Natasha jump onto the moving train and escape, the scene transitions to a helicopter flying in the bayou. After that we see Jerome walking along an elevated section of railroad where Chance and Natasha jumped off the train. Jerome signals to Van Cleef that the train went by 2 hours ago. Then Van Cleef walks underneath the elevated track and to the other side, scoping out the area for tracks. We are then treated to a short fadeaway of Chance and Natasha running through the swamp, and then fading back to their footprints in front of Van Cleef. This sequence shows Van Cleef’s mental processing, and it’s a true John Woo staple, something that doesn’t happen in any other part of the movie.
Additional line of dialogue – after tracking the heroes to the bayou, Fouchon mentions to the other badguys that they have men set-up on the highways in case Chance and Natasha head in that direction.
Additional line of dialogue – when one of Fouchon’s cronies steps into Chance’s rattlesnake trap, Fouchon tells the group that they are “dumber than a sackful of hammers,” ha ha!
Additional short scene… when Stefan steps inside Douvee’s shack and begins firing indiscriminately, there are short, quick scenes of Fouchon and the others ducking for cover, implying that they probably thought somebody else was firing back.
Additional footage showing that it is actually Van Cleef with an M203 (and not the hunter in the cowboy hat with the street-sweeper), that blew up the ramshackle shed while Douvee and Natasha escape on horseback.
Additional close-up shot of the badguy getting shot in the helicopter.
Subtle editing differences throughout the Mardi Gras warehouse scene.
Additional scene of Chance blasting a badguy before jumping up onto a platform to swing on the rope (rope swinging scene).
Additional scene of Chance shooting Jerome in the leg from the bottom of a stairway. In the official release you can spot Jerome still falling down from his injury at the top of the stairs.
Brand new dialogue – Towards the end of the film, Fouchon is holding Natasha hostage and orders Chance to drop his weapon. Following this is a confusing exchange of words that has bothered me for years. First Fouchon addresses Natasha with “You see Ms. Binder… you I can understand; it was a matter of family. You had nothing in common with those people.” Then, with absolutely no pause, segue or transition, Fouchon asks, “What made you want to complicate my life like this?” At first you think he might still be referring to Natasha, but he is actually addressing Chance. Not only is this downright confusing, it is sloppy editing and I would like to fix it. Maybe add in a quick reference or something as simple as “But YOU…” or “YOU on the other hand…” while cutting to an additional shot of Chance. The challenge here would be to find new dialogue audio of Lance Henriksen saying what I want him to say, or even by recycling audio from somewhere else in the film.
WHAT I WILL NOT BE ADDING
1) The “Frère Jacques” scene from the screener version. (A very embarrassing and unnecessary scene!)
2) The alternate, shorter ending from the screener version. The chop-socky ending (along with the best line in the film) will stay.
“THE JURY IS STILL OUT” ON THESE CHANGES
1) There are some sequences in the screener that are edited with a completely different chronology in mind. For example, Fouchon’s meeting with Mr. Zenan leads directly into his conversation with Van Cleef about Chance, and then leads to Chance revisiting Douglas Binder’s crime scene. I like how the timeframe for these scenes were edited, but I just don’t know if I will follow suit.
2) The “Safari montage” scene from the screener is probably one of the most controversial… it does go a long way though at giving us a peek inside Fouchon’s psyche, and maybe even his mental stability. I just don’t know if it’s 100% necessary, as the scene is already intercut with Poe interviewing the unwitting Roper.
3)Extra dialogue from the screener version between Natasha and her father’s landlady at the beginning of film, dialogue between Natasha and Roper…. Not sure yet if it feels necessary enough to include in the fanedit.
4)There is one particular villain in the movie that mysteriously disappears towards the end of the film. He is one of the “bald brothers,” Frick and Frack. I’m guessing he is Frack, since I don’t really know a lot about the actors that portray them (So “Frick” is the one with the beard that talks a lot of trash!) The last time we see Frack is after Douvee blows up his shack and escapes from Fouchon. From that point onward, we never see him again. This has always bothered me because pretty much every other villain is accounted for when Chance takes them all out in the Mardi Gras graveyard. If I have time when everything else is finished, I may go back and see if I can excise any scene in the bayou showing Frack (it’s only maybe one or two short scenes), leaving the impression that Frack was taken out in the car explosion during the motorbike chase. Actually, that doesn’t make sense at all… Maybe another solution will present itself.