Darth Wagner

AntcuFaalb said:

Bingowings said:

AntcuFaalb said:

It might help to mention that Americans often refer to any piece of music (with or without lyrics) as a "song".

But why? What if you want to refer to a song and the word for song no longer means song?

I haven't yet encountered a situation where using the word "song" to refer to a piece of music (rather than just those pieces of music with lyrics) resulted in an unresolvable ambiguity.

 Most kids in Switzerland refer to a song, movement or any music cue as a "song" as well, not only Americans. I think, it has something to do with lack of real interest or education. But now we all know what the guy ment :-)

Oh, mann... where should I start?

Every SW OT fan should take a look on this work of yours. Seriously.

Firstly, before seing it I thought it's some sort of experimental rough cut with a few scenes put in a certain new order. Instead - it's a very smooth watch with nice transitions and music/sound alterations which is not easy to do. You didn't only change a compelte feel of that movie, but you also took a great care in your newly constructed pacing even by shortening the good scenes just for the pace' sake (f.e. shorter approaching of objects and shorter dramatically unconsistent/unusable dialogs). I couldn't believe how convincing it is this way. In this case, less is really more. Of course, there are single details which need reconsidering or redoing, but this is, without being immodest, the greatest fan edit of ROTJ since. I wonder what Adywan will say upon seeing it. It seems, you sent ROTJ to a fitness programm. It lost all the fat and gained real muscle. Incredible. The whole Bobba Fett subplot fits in nicely in the rest of the story and for the first time gives some sense to his appearence in the movie. This is correct way to approach screenwriting. 

Unfortunately, we can only see what we can see. I can see a great effort and get very clear idea what ROTJ could have been if Gary Kurtz stayed around, or Lucas have listened for Lawence Kasdan's idea that someone should die in this movie. 

Of course, I see that it's almost impossible to integrate all new scenes completely, for a different reasons. Recovered ones look raw and in weak resolution and colour, and the new Endor scenes look directed by another person then the rest of a movie, also shot in the wrong place. This is of course the question of budget, but I suppose, one could eventually shoot this stuff in a "filmy" way with that warm Marquand/Hume picture in Redwoods CA for identical background. The good stuff is, Redwoods is still there - it's not Coruscant or Mos Eisley :-) 

The opening of this movie should be bigger in any way (for example one extended Vader's arrival to Corruscant) and the Yoda scene should come second, in one piece. Your remarks about it are right, but they don't help you if something feels missing or weird.

But let me state clearly about this edit: it is extremely difficult to mess with ROTJ and anyone who tries this so successfully as you did should be awarded highest attention of the fan community.

I hope, Kennedy and Abrams and the great creator himself will see it as well just to reconsider the approach to the general tone of star wars films as they maybe should feel like.

Thank you for doing this.

I don't know if anyone noticed, but Adywan mentions 720p on a 1080p-age of this thread :-))) 

Adywan & co. thank you all for doing all this and planing to do more. I suppose, there are many people reading this thread often and for a longer time, but like me, if they don't have anything important to say, they just read it. 

I like all results I could see in a last 5 years and despite a long wait, the results are definitely there, so... I suppose everybody has an individual idea of speed putting :R editions out.

I am looking forward to the release of ESB:R and to whole work on ROTJ:R and prequels. 

Thank you

DW

Hello everybody. DFNYC, thank you for this effort, I wasn't aware there is a HD version of a tv novel. This are great news! 

The Newsgroups version (2,something GB) won't extract. I downloaded it twice and it wouldn't open due some invalid files inside.

Torrent (44,55 GiB) is working; not very much seeding though.

Any downloading advice is welcome, here or PM.

Thank you, kind regards to all fans

DW

Well, Spence. I think I'll be writing a detailed review soon, but it's so exciting to watch Jedi this way I just have to write something now immidiately after watching it. First of all, thank you for all the hard work you've done. Only a few things:

-this edit is the bravest step till date of showing what ROTJ could really have been although it's probably still far away from an original idea in the times of Gary Kurtz's Star Wars production presence.

Here is Gary Kurtz talking,  from this interview (http://movies.ign.com/articles/376/376873p4.html):

One of the reasons Jedi came out the way it did was because the story outline of how Jedi was going to be seemed to get tossed out, and one of the reasons I was really unhappy was the fact that all of the carefully constructed story structure of characters and things that we did in Empire was going to carry over into Jedi. The resolution of that film was going to be quite bittersweet, with Han Solo being killed, and the princess having to take over as queen of what remained of her people, leaving everybody else. In effect, Luke was left on his own. None of that happened, of course. 

IGNFF: So it would have been less of a fairy-tale ending? 

KURTZ: Much, much less. It would have been quite sad, and poignant and upbeat at the same time, because they would have won a battle. But the idea of another attack on another Death Star wasn't there at all ... it was a rehash of Star Wars, with better visual effects. And there were no Ewoks ... it was just entirely different. It was much more adult and straightforward, the story. This idea that the roller-coaster ride was all the audience was interested in, and the story doesn't have to be very adult or interesting, seemed to come up because of what happened with Raiders of the Lost Ark and the Indiana Jones films – and the fact that that seemed to make a lot of money and it didn't matter whether there was a really good story or not – that wasn't what this kind of film was about. We had serious differences about a lot of that. 

This edit tries to get closer to this first concept and does it with success! It's a enjoyable movie now, people in it behave like in adult world which is still adorable for children. I personally was wery touched by seeing it because it reminded me on that anticipation of it back at 1983. Now this is what I actually like more for a lot of reasons:

-all the lines indicating that characters in this movie are actually played by real actors, are gone, and that includes some crappy street humour from our "earthy" lives as well Tarzan - parody (not very star warsy, isn't it?), so characters "stay" in their characters which is great

-less great thing about cutting certain "character lines" like "hey!...it's me" is the fact you can't replace them with something else "more in his or her character" because there isn't anythyng else available to use. So what one ends with is an rather empty sort of character. That is what happened to Solo and Jabba in this edit.

- cutting Jabba's screen time brings less fascination for Leia killing him, it felt like Jabba is some minor character, a not very interesting space gangster like lots of others and a character one doesn't want to know more about, he just sits and threats around

- the whole Jabba's palace sequence reminded me on some new "Clone Wars" - tv - episode now. It's also almost the same length :-) and I don't know is that good or bad 

- after seeing "trimmed versions" of some of this movie's characters it is clear that this is as far as one can go trimming them because although they are more believable now, they also feel less personal and the whole movie like "made from a distance". I didn't feel "in it" like in ESB but looking at it "from outside" which still is better then original cliche and over the top - lines of every character. They are all gone now in that 30 min cut out.

- ewoks involment now feels appropriate and right. They don't have to hijack the whole movie any more and are actually very likable in this edit. They are really living there on Endor so now you just get along with it and one might even like them a lot without getting too patheticaly close to their characters.

- the duel doesn't seem short but simple now. It could live with one intercutting to the Endor/Space battle but this was your choice, it brings a new simplier feel now, like a chamber instead symphonic concert. It doesn't mean that it's less spectacular, it just feels new and different also because of trimmed dialogues.  

- the star destroyer duel - concept is great. But overall I felt a need to see more places-introductions (Boushe walking in hallways of Jabba's palace, Trone - room from outside star destroyer) and this would probbably be neccessary in any attempt of a bigger edit then this one

- it is clear to me now after seeing this great made edit that it's impossible changing ROTJ to make it in another kind of style, but with all bounded elements that a good movie should still have but also, there are great functioning new moments in this version which are real pleasure to see (new intercuttings for example) and can represent an inspiration and orientation for  Adywan and his decisions on his future ROTJ:R, because Spence, you brought a clear light on a certain road

- I allways liked to watch ROTJ, particulary it's noble opening. This version is the one I'll be looking from time to time from now on and enjoy it

- i think it would be great now to watch the whole OT with this version in it. If I do it , I'll write again how it felt. This could bring some new impacts as well 

- I'll adress some cutting details and music choices in more detail soon

Congrats to you Spence, everyone who helped and thank you for your dedication!

Thanx guys, I got the link

Could someone please send me the link for this? Dying of curiosity wright now..

Thank you, and thank you Spence for making this big step with ep 6. 

I really didn't write for a long time, Ghostbusters, but I do now, thx to you. I would really kindly suggest to you to read the whole thread first, so you can get the certain feel for kind of suggestions people bring in here, namely all usually and fortunately not-long-lived ridiculousness as well, before you ask for something like this again. I don't want & also can not anyway mob anybody here but this is what happens to some people asking for weird dubiously motivated changes like

"Luke, I am your Father". 

1. In our school we were saying just "I am your father".

2. It really doesn't matter who misinterpreted the line of original movie every day anywhere in the world, incl. your school

3. Vader says this:

"No. .. I am your father"

"Luke... ....son, come with me"

"Luke , it is your destiny"

As you see, it's very easy to mix this 3 versions for some kids.

4. There are hundreds of people reading what you write, awareness of that might help.

5. Welcome to the forum and I wish you luck in your communication here 

Bingowings said:

If it's to be used in the raid on the Jedi Temple (something I'm all for) a bit of experimentation needs to be done with A) finding the right version and B) timing the theme with the footfalls of Vader and his troops, either by altering the pace of the music or altering the speed of the footage.

It's a march so they should march to the march, seeing as they are marching.

 

I almost agree. Otherwise it looks stylised as a TV - videoclip or a comercial about the movie itself... is that a style you want to achieve, bobgarcia?

Adywan, please make as soon as possible a nice holiday with your family. This can wait. Thank you.

vaderios said:

The last thing that AOTC needs is more orange..

Just my little feedback

-Angel

I think he made mistake with the picture schedule of Obi and Anakin (upper picture is right). The rest is right.

Yes, this version doesn't really look like very worthy actually, because the things they throw out are not only things one should throw out of this movie.  I would rather see Phantom editor's AOTPh done in a big resolution and colour corrected. That is probably one of the best Fanedits around and in a really minor technical shape. I simply believe that some people around this site can make better judgment on Lucas' work then Lucas himself. It sounds rediculous but if he could, we wouldn't be here.  

Mojo_LA said:

I really wish the Phantom Editor would take a stab at Episode 3 - in my humble opinion, "Attack of the Phantom" is the all-time best fan edit ever and I'd love to see what he would do with the last installment.

Oh yes, his AOTC feels really sinister and menacing. Pity, no colour correction though. But that kiss on Naboo is really great done now as well.

A question for anybody who knows: What happened with Timstuff's TPM doubleedit? Did he make it? Why did he dissapear without a trace?

Can someone tell what happend with this edit ? It couldn't dissapear. No editor so small has cloaking device..? 

vaderios said:

Darth Wagner said:

 but "using midiclorians to create life" refers to what else then Anakin? Why else would this sentence be there anyway then..

Well why not Plagues use midichlorians like the T virus in resident evil? return the dead shells back to life or create new ones in the place of the dead ones.

I thought it that way

 

-Angel

As you wish :-)

Ric Olie said:

Darth Wagner said:

But you see, this way of implying things is a refreshment in PT where there are lots of Ric Olie way of explaining.

 

I ought to crush your head for saying such a thing, but since I don't know you, I'll let it go...

...this one time!

You catch on pretty quick :-)

TV's Frink said:

Maybe I misunderstood your previous comment.  I thought you were saying that there was no reference to Anakin's virgin birth in TPM.  What were you really saying?

Yes. For my understanding if a woman got pregnant in some special way with Anakin doesn't mean she was a virgin before she got pregnant. I find the term "virgin birth" inapropriate anyway except for a woman which got pregnant this way as a virgin. And if I get an explanation for pregnancy in ROTS then it's done for me.

@bobgarcia : "stop people from dying" is refering to Anakin and Padme, but "using midiclorians to create life" refers to what else then Anakin? Why else would this sentence be there anyway then..Pleaguis can physicly not be Anakin's father but a person who manipulated  midichlorians to get mother pregnant. You are right however about this subject has no weight because it was never sad, Pleaguis did it really. But you see, this way of implying things is a refreshment in PT where there are lots of Ric Olie way of explaining.

..but thanx for responding, it's not so important thing anyway. I'll be happy to see your cut anyway exactly as it is!

TV's Frink said:

Also...

YODA: (sighing) Master Qui-Gon...more to say have you?
QUI-GON: With your permission, my Master. I have encountered a vergence in the Force.
YODA: A vergence, you say?
MACE WINDU: Located around a person?
QUI-GON: A boy... his cells have the highest concentration of midi-chlorians I have seen in a life form. It is possible he was conceived by the midi-chlorians.

PALPATINE: (continuing) Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis "the wise"? 

ANAKIN: No. 

PALPATINE: I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create ... life 

TV's Frink said:

QUI-GON: Had he been born in the Republic, we would have identified him early. The Force is unusually strong with him, that much is clear. Who was his father?
SHMI: There was no father. I carried him, I gave birth, I raised him. I can't explain what happened. Can you help him?

PALPATINE: (continuing) Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis "the wise"? 

ANAKIN: No. 

PALPATINE: I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create ... life 

I re-edited TPM for myself and can not remember that a virginity of Anakin's mother ever was an issue there.:-))... the prophecies, well, they were before and probably after Jesus as well anywhere on Earth, even daily horoscopes are kind of prophecies...as for 3 days of this and that - I never noticed that mentioned in any Star Wars movie. But I'm looking forward to this edit with or without midichlorians. I just stated why I don't have problems with them and why I concider them to be a part of a story I can exept for myself. 

vaderios said:

brash_stryker said:

It adds nothing to his character, and is simply a lame attempt by Lucas to make parallels between Anakin and Jesus, and try to make him more interesting.

Nah they are still two different persons

 

@brash_stryker

sorry, I never noticed any parallels with Jesus during watching of prequels and especially after ROTS any parallels with Jesus are impossible anyway :-)

@ vaderios

"trivial depth" :-))))) thanx, I like it, it's a great description for Hitchcock movies :-))))

@brash_stryker

For respect for religious persons here, even and dispite being a non practical but somehow a person which relates to christian cultural circle, I suggest not to touch any religios subject calling it "stupid" for the sake of correctness, this is not a forum for that stuff. I'm not going to argue about this remark as well, we have admin here anyway.

Now one can imagine that someone evil with a capability of a Jedi who could manipulate a lots of things, could manipulate/ignite pregnancy as well. Jedi would not do such stuff but... Sith? Why not? Doctors of totalitary regimes in 20th century did it (Nazis and Russians). There is a reference.

I don't see any "immaculate conception" in Anakin's story after I saw ROTS, as I explained in my previous post. IMHO "immaculate conception" is a reasonable christian interpretation of Anakin's mother's unexplainable expierience from TPM. This saga is not on Earth, it's a galaxy far away, the rest you can read in my previous post, I explained it. 

Another big issue in a concept of Page 1 - list: Erasing midichlorian talk

Midichlorian talk in the opera might sound like unimportant but it is indirect explanation of Anakin's existence. In a contrary to usual audience which probably didn't get it, Darth Pleagus the Wise is probably Anakins father because he was very probably the one who "manipulated midichlorians to create... life" inside Anakin's mother (and who knows who else) which got pregnant without any physical contact and "can't explain what happened". In some simplyfied christian way, audience should realise in this very moment that Anakin was not some sort of "a child of god" (as lots of newspapers were making fun of this implication at 1999), but, as it seems now, on a contrary, some kind of "child of a devil", if one likes to put it this way. Tatooine, so remote and unimportant would be a right place for that kind of experiment. That also immidiately explains why Anakin is so overfilled ("it looks like he was concieved") with midichlorians as well. That's a technical explanation of his unlimited abilities. He is a child of a Sith manipulation experiment "some consider to be unnatural". This is why this story is important, beside more catchy obvious interesting stuff in it (ability to save people/Padme from dying and a hint that Palpatine himself was very probably  Pleagus' pupil who killed him in his sleep). These are ingenious hidden explenations placed in one hidden story told in selffascinating undertone in Ian McDiarmid's juicy performance wich maybe should be all left where they are, also because despite it's many characters , PT is a story of Anakin Skywalker just as "OT is story of Luke Skywalker"(as Lawrence Kasdan said). This scene takes a lots of time, extra slow tempo and reliance on a good actor not without a reason but to tell us that this is really important although hidden and/or disguised.

First in this story of Palpatine audience should became aware why this "midichlorians bull...t"( as many old sw fans stated after TPM opened) is actually really very important issue. That ment, erasing "midichlorians stuff" means erasing something of fundamental importance for the story of Anakin Skywalker.

Do as you wish.

I write so rarely, Vaderios, but you happen to be my answer policeman in OT.com because allways when I post something, you are the first who answers! 

But thank you and I'm happy to see so much of your input in this edit; I really like your taste of colours and imaginative visuals / corrections in sort of modernised SW way... it would had been so nice if you would have taken it from McQuarrie in 1998 or so...

Hello bobgarcia74, I am looking trough your RODS clips again and again because you make this movie look so good! Of course, the more you make something look consequent and good, the more one notices unclean stuff... luckily.

- Opening battle: very noticable cut in the middle of explosion of a small fighter ship. You cut it to not show the flying pilot corpse just for effect's sake like Lucas, but maybe leave it as original or some end of the explosion is needed. I think there are no cuts in the middle of explosion to a different place in SW movies (only not if it's the same explosion, like Death Star exploding). All cuts in your work should be clean because your work deserves that. Or maybe leave the explosion sound longer after video cut.

- Invisible Hand:  when Obi and Anakin step out of an Elevator to captive Palpatine, in your cut there should be some visible rest of slauthered droids on the elevator floor behind them, otherwise you have a continuity problem. 

- The begining of Obi's and Anakin's duel has a strong soundboost - Rise Of The Volume , which stays that way loud - if you watch the clip from the beginning again you will hardly hear them all talking. I don't know your reason for this volume disbalance, but it woud be a pity to leave it this way because it's clumsy (untipical for the rest of your quality work) and unneccesary. I like to hear music louder, I think OT has beter mix of music and foley, but this here is a little bit out of place...

- In case you treat Yoda - Palpatine duel like JasonN: I finally watched JasonN's version yesterday and noticed that for story's sake we need to see Yoda getting away from newly hostile Coruscant to Polis Massa. He wasn't taking Holidays on Coruscant. He is forced to leave as he can not face Palpatine alone. We need to see his decision to leave the place for good. Otherwise it looks unconvincing that such important person (Palpatine's greatest target) can move however wherever because we suddenly see him in polis massa. Maybe just show him driving with Organa in the "car" saying that he has to go. I don't know if you considered this or not.

- Why did you change ingenious original Grievous approaching music to Utapau? It would fit the Night version as well. But this version is great as well, it just has no new musical motif. It's way darker though.

- If you already did such a great work, it woud be a pity to notice anything strange in dialogue edits. Example: Clip "Losing General Greavous cough example 2" there are very noticable cuts because you cut video and sound abrupt and don't soften the cut with longer remain of audio from a previous clip, at least in this sequence. Also beside this on 1:47 we see dangerous droid reaching his hand towards R2 but it's cut so fast after reaching that we don't know why: to strike him or just to keep him in range? It's just needs some more detailed work on it. Maybe it would help to put the sound of approching droids from the next clip already during ending of this one and than Obi immidiately shown asks :"Do you have a plan B?" 

- Maybe it would be great if Adywan says his opinion on your cut as well because he's very critical perfectionist, if you're interested in his opinion and if he would find the time to watch it.

Thank you for doing this once again as well everyone who supports this.

Cheers

P.S. I fogot something important: I don't know how emotionally connected you are with your renamed title of your cut but for a foreign person which are many fans in the world the word "REIGN" is not very familliar and it sounds like, much familliar "RAIN of the dark side" which sounds crazy. Maybe you would concider some another, very clear title for a meaning's sake?