TV's Frink said:
none said:
Feel free to post boards.tf.n thread location.
And then KIWF!
What is your problem? Do you own these boards, or something? The issue is done and over with, yet you had to chime in with your little one-liners....
Baronlando said:
To me, the most interesting thing about "midichlorians" of any kind existing in '77 is the fact that they were relegated to the trashcan along with the Kaibur crystal. And that young Lucas makes a point of saying that the force concept got better the less he explained it. And anything physical just made it mundane. It's impressive how all his instincts were so right on the money back then, even though he was fairly young and had only directed 3 movies. The Raiders story transcripts illustrate this very well.
Thanks for this, Baron. You are 100% right. While my post was pointing out the differing contexts surrounding the so-called "PT" elements of the "Lucas expands his universe" SW back-story anecdotes from '77, you bring up what's most often overlooked: the fact that Lucas discarded these ideas when making the OT.
TV's Frink said:
Bocce_Linguist said:
Vaderisnothayden:
Gotta love a bump of a year-and-a-half old thread, especially when the member in question hasn't been online in nearly a year.
It isn't like he - and ONLY - he can address the post.
BaronLando posted his own observation on the subject not long afterwards, which is the kind of thing I was going for (whether Vaderisnothayden responded to it or not).
btw, BaronLando, thanks for your response.
Vaderisnothayden said:
Yeah. I feel for you. You bought the paperback. I wanted to buy the paperback but then I heard about the bonus material and I decided I'd better get the ten-ton hardback. I think it's a dirty trick sticking valuable stuff in the hardback only. That section about expanding the universe has a whole lot of 1977 monologue pieces from Lucas in which he gives bits of 1977 Star Wars backstory for use by expanded universe writers. Han, 3PO, Leia, rebellion, rise of the empire, etc.
I'm still in shock that in 77 Lucas had threepio rebuilt by a boy working for a junk dealer and eventuallly given new coverings, later to join Alderaanian service. The thing to be careful about when judging the prequels is that some stuff that looks like it's recent bullshit can turn out to go way back. Still there's a lot of stuff that looks very clearly like it's a 90s development. And if the prequels really were all that faithful to Lucas's backstory then maybe the backstory was crap that was best kept off the screen. But I think no matter how faithful the story elements in the prequels might be to the original backstory, the spirit of how they were done out in the prequels must be seriously at odds with how Lucas envisioned the backstory back in the old days. And no way was Anakin originally envisioned as being like the Hayden Christensen version.
Vaderisnothayden:
In that '77 scenario, it wasn't Anakin that built 3PO. The text-interview doesn't explicitly say that it is, but frankly, the context of the whole "Lucas expands his universe" section makes it highly unlikely that the boy in question was actually Anakin or 'Annikin' (as it was spelled then) back in '77. If you read the other parts of that chapter of SW 'history', it's made clear that Vader and Annikin were two separate people (Annikin being the last Jedi to die in the purge only tends to reinforce this). With that, there's no reason for a 'memory wipe' or for 3PO to NOT know that it was Anakin who built him, if it indeed was supposed to have been Anakin . So you can forget 'Anakin built 3PO' as being "old"....just that 3PO was built buy a boy working for a junk dealer. When it came to the prequels, Lucas merely grafted that 'boy' onto Anakin's history (among other...ahem....'tweaks').
Ditto for the midichlorians, where it (the '77 text) says that "certain alien species have a higher count than other beings." Could that be the 'genesis' of Yoda, or a 'proto-Yoda'? Dunno. But it certainly doesn't speak of a human 'Chosen One' , on account of midis.
zombie84, what's your take on the book, especially the Father-Vader element?
Darth_Nub, myself, and others have been discussing it over at TF.N.
none said:
Making of TESB threads:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Making-of-Empire-Strikes-Back-pushed-back-to-October/topic/11307/page/5/
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-Making-of-The-Empire-Strikes-Back/topic/12056/
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Here-comes-The-Making-Of-The-Empire-Strikes-Back-book/topic/10706/
Feel free to post boards.tf.n thread location.
Thanks, none
couldn't find the "Making of TESB" thread, so:
zombie84, what's your take on JW Rinzler's Making of TESB book?
Myself, Darth_Nub, and others over at TF.N have been having an in-depth discussion about it.
Alexrd said:
timdiggerm said:
ANH? Luke's father and Darth Vader weren't even the same person.
That's hard to say, since Alec's acting makes it possible either way.
Yeah, 'possible either way' in a retro-active sense. Occam's razor can help: Alec's demeanor in the scene - his acting, as you mention it - is because Obi-Wan is having to tell his friend's son that his father was murdered , when it's obvious that Luke just knew - or was told by his uncle - up to that point only that his father had died.
zombie84 said:
Rick McCallum couldn't possibly be Go-Mer-Tonic AND kenkraly could he?
lol
Anchorhead said:
Bocce_Linguist said:
ChainsawAsh, you kind of look like Rick Wright (r.i.p.) of Pink Floyd.........\
"Breath, breath in the air......" - 1973
Man - I knew I'd seen him before, but I just couldn't put my finger on it.
Good call.
Thanks.
ChainsawAsh said:
TV's Frink said:
ray_afraid said:
Also, I heard there was a doobie gettin' passed around and I'm waitin' my turn. That's what's keepin' me here.
Now I have a new reason to stick around. ;-)
Nobody told me there were doobies! Have I been missing out on the OT.Com smoke circle this entire time?!
Speaking of doobies,
ChainsawAsh, you kind of look like Rick Wright (r.i.p.) of Pink Floyd.........\
"Breath, breath in the air......" - 1973
Bingowings said:
I fear we are in the presence of a Goblin Market Salesman.
roflmao
lordsidi said:' Now these movies are in the list of the best films of the twentieth century and not just because of the Box Office receipts.
Still waiting for that to happen with the PT.....
Bingowings said:
The end result being such an artistic flop leads me to suspect that either George had those words scripted for him by someone who can write or he has some sort of blind spot to irony.
Or possibly it's both..........
TheBoost said:
Bocce_Linguist said:
Bingowings said:
In terms of space battles the one at the end of TPM looks WWI to ANH's WWII (colourful simple fighter craft
/less colouful gritty fighter craft
).
The problem isn't so much in the design but it the writing.
Maybe it's not so much the specific look* of the fighter crafts but rather the execution of the battles that makes it hard for me to believe/accept that TPM is supposed to be 'before' SW/ANH.
*even taking into consideration your color analogy, there's still a problem, though: we should have at least seen Y-Wings in the PT, since during the OT days the film makers involved were saying that they looked so 'beat-up' because they were in fact older craft than the X-wings....
I can see both sides of this, but ultimately it seems to me that the choice to not even care that the PT didn't really look earlier than the OT (except smaller Star Destroyers) is a creative choice, not a technical one. Whatever design choices would have successfully made the PT look a generation earlier than the OT could have been acheived in CGI.
(on the other hand, if the Republic has already stood for a thousand generations, how much technological advance do we expect to see in 20 years?)
Then again, if audiences were never actually going to 'see' those "thousand generations", I don't think the proposed World War-style technological advance via 20 years would have been all that problematic.
Bingowings said:
In terms of space battles the one at the end of TPM looks WWI to ANH's WWII (colourful simple fighter craft
The problem isn't so much in the design but it the writing.
Maybe it's not so much the specific look* of the fighter crafts but rather the execution of the battles that makes it hard for me to believe/accept that TPM is supposed to be 'before' SW/ANH.
*even taking into consideration your color analogy, there's still a problem, though: we should have at least seen Y-Wings in the PT, since during the OT days the film makers involved were saying that they looked so 'beat-up' because they were in fact older craft than the X-wings....
TheBoost said:
Given that Lucas has been overwhelmingly a director interested in visuals and technical processes I think it's baseless, bordering on silly, to say that the use of CGI is motivated by greed.
While it indeed might be cheaper to use CGI backgrounds rather than location shooting or extremely extensive sets (since most of the PT locations could not actually be found on Earth), I fail to see why Lucas is
- obligated to go a more expensive route on his self-funded picture lest he be called 'greedy.'
- forbidden from using the technology he developed for this very purpose.
Also, using the PT to "showcase" his technology kind of ignore the facts that
- ILM had been a gold standard of SFX for decades, hiring out to do all sorts of films.
- There's nothing that revolutionary in the PT that the industry wasn't already gearing up for and didn't know ILM (and other FX houses) was already capable of.
As for your moralizing at the end there, George Lucas made some of the greatest films of all time, including four films already in the Library of Congress and on the AFI Top 100. Nothing can take that away from him. And as for his few extra bucks, the PT made almost 3 billion dollars in box office alone.
So let me honestly ask... if Geonosis had been shot on location somewhere, would the AOTC plots somehow not have sucked? If the Gungan City had been an actual set would Jar-Jar have not been annoying? If Mustafar had been real, would the Anakin/Padme romance have worked dramatically? I think what you're complaining about it meaningless when compared to why the movies were actually not good.
Your points in debating with haljordan are well taken...
That being said:
One good reason for Lucas to NOT use CGI: to ensure that the PT at least look like it took place BEFORE the OT, (like a prequel should) and not like it took place AFTER it. (Or, to paraphrase Howard Kazanjian circa 2005, the PT looks like 'World War IV' to the OT's 'World War II', contrary to plans made during the early 80's when he and Lucas had discussed the backstory, in which the PT was said to be like 'World War I' in technological/visual aspects compared to the CT that they were working on. )
Sluggo said:
bkev said:
I think you guys really took this too far. I usually come here for a tolerant community - even if he's a troll, which seems very likely, this behavior is pretty horrible. Did I like the guy? No. But to keep going after him like this is just cruel.
Maybe. But presenting false evidence (perjury) to bolster his arguments doesn't help him in the court of public opinion.
Wait...didn't somebody (Alexrd?) accuse haljordan of doing the very same thing?
zombie84 said:
I hope they remembered to check it was the original.
Flashforward 70 years: "Lucas may have destroyed all prints of the originals, but we still have this! Empire Strikes Back Special Edition!...Fuck..."
Sounds like Jon Stewart...
Monolithium said:
Wouldn't the mirroring idea work better if Dooku had convinced Anakin to join him?
You bet.
Bingowings said:
Dave says :
Open the pod bay doors.
Is there Life on Mars???
none said:
I'm fond of this explanation:
Sluggo said:
and this, but not so much at the beginning:
This picture reminds me of the front cover of Black Sabbath's first LP.
Yay!!! Latverian/boatrider is back!
zombie84 said:
Uh, she could have just flown to wherever and transfered to a different ship. Or better yet, removed the frickin homing beacon, since she knew the Falcon was being tracked. But whatever, even Citizen Kane has a fundamental plot hole.
(This is also in response to Akwat Kbrana)
Don't forget this, though:
"( assuming they could find it* at their leisure , and then try to take it out)?????"
Agreed on your caveat re Citizen Kane, though.
*or, as I should say, "find it AGAIN" ("it" being the Death Star). Remember how the heroes 'luckily' got acquainted with the DS the first time? Yet, I never hear people complain about how convenient to the plot that was.....
Come on, we know the reason for the 'plot hole' in SW. It's because Lucas wanted the Death Star battle - which was originally going to be at the end of Part III - to appear in the first film..........
..........oh wait. I'm using what's most likely a revisionist meme (see paragraph above) to justify a so-called plot hole that was 'shoe-horned' into the first film.
generalfrevious said:
And then Leia threatens the Rebellion by leading the Death Star to the Rebel base, as many like to bitch about.
And those who bitch about it never come up with an alternative.....were the Heroes/Rebels supposed to just 're-group' on Yavin and leave off destroying the Death Star to a later time (assuming they could find it at their leisure, and then try to take it out)?????
