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anothe example of lucas changing things to appeal to a new generation lightsaber dueling styles of OT vs PT
anothe example of lucas changing things to appeal to a new generation lightsaber dueling styles of OT vs PT :: 1 < 5 > 8
captainsolo
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Tauntaun herder-Damn Fool Idealistic CrusaderThe Windu-Palpatine fight is so bad in so many ways but primarily is bad due to the over reliance on close ups of Ian McDarmid to cover the fact that he wasn't agile enough to pull off the fighting.
VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
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twooffour
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Meh, I thought it worked.
TheBoost
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Better a bad bomb than a bombadTV's Frink said:
It's not a good sign if you are taking haljordan's side in an argument with TheBoost.
Thanks dog. :::fist bump:::
But to be fair, they were ad hominems. But to be more fair, Hal was kinda a butthole.
Bingowings
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Magister Pontifex MaximusHe wasn't agile enough to do the disco moves of the PT but I bet he was agile enough to lift Mace up in the air and shake him like a ragdoll or shoot electricity out of his fingers, like he did in the ROTJ (something Dooku should never have been allowed to do).
Or better still nimble enough to avoid every blade swipe just by clouding Mace's mind only to collapse on the floor and play dead in time for Anakin to run into the room and see Mace Allwaysonmycase pointing a sword at his mentor's fragile old body, convincing him that the Jedi really were nuts all along.
But I guess that wouldn't look disco enough.
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twooffour
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Bingowings said:
He wasn't agile enough to do the disco moves of the PT but I bet he was agile enough to lift Mace up in the air and shake him like a ragdoll or shoot electricity out of his fingers, like he did in the ROTJ (something Dooku should never have been allowed to do).
Or better still nimble enough to avoid every blade swipe just by clouding Mace's mind only to collapse on the floor and play dead in time for Anakin to run into the room and see Mace Allwaysonmycase pointing a sword at his mentor's fragile old body, convincing him that the Jedi really were nuts all along.
But I guess that wouldn't look disco enough.
That would've been cooler, I guess.
Although, as a matter of fact, they said they had originally conceived of (or shot) a scene where Palpatine's bluffing was made more obvious, but then decided to blur thing up. Still not sure whether it was a good move - I don't think it was.
CP3S
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"friggin midgit devil teddy bear"Bingowings said:
He wasn't agile enough to do the disco moves of the PT but I bet he was agile enough to lift Mace up in the air and shake him like a ragdoll or shoot electricity out of his fingers, like he did in the ROTJ (something Dooku should never have been allowed to do).
Or better still nimble enough to avoid every blade swipe just by clouding Mace's mind only to collapse on the floor and play dead in time for Anakin to run into the room and see Mace Allwaysonmycase pointing a sword at his mentor's fragile old body, convincing him that the Jedi really were nuts all along.
But I guess that wouldn't look disco enough.
Wow, Bingo just rewrote the scene into an exciting and far more believable turn to the Darkside for Anakin.
A believable turn to evil in any story has to be done from the perspective that the person becoming evil doesn't really believe he is becoming evil. With the exception of some psychopaths, no one is really evil in their own minds. Anakin basically stumbles upon the Windu/Palps fight, is met with 100% confirmation that the man he has been defending as good is actually evil, then proceeds to take his side anyway.
"What have I done!"
"That? Oh, well, you're just fulfilling your destiny. Don't take it so hard."
"I am?"
"Sure!"
"Oh, okay in that case I'll just go ahead and pledge myself to you."
"Goooood."
"What do I do now?"
"Uhhhhh, let me check my day planner. Hmmm, I have some kids in room 307 I need murdered. You want to go ahead and handle that one for me?"
"Uh, yeah, okay."
Bingowings
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Magister Pontifex MaximusHeck Mace could even refuse to fight the guy and Palpatine could use the dark side to make him attack him and inflict non fatal injuries.
We are meant to believe this guy clouded the minds of thousands of Jedi all at once so he must have some serious skillz up his sleeve which make a lightsaber utterly redundant.
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twooffour
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The whole "clouding minds" idea was stupid to begin with.
He could've been able to shield himself from easy detection, or maybe play tricks on people here and there, but that's fucking it.
Bingowings
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Magister Pontifex MaximusHow else is he supposed to hide in plain sight from the Knights of Temple Anthrax?
He is one they are many.
If he wasn't really, really good at what he did one of them at least would have uncovered the truth (which is why I like the JasonN style edits where Dooku has but nobody will believe him because Palpatine has already defamed the company he keeps).
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twooffour
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Um, I said he can shield himself from detection, and play a trick here and there - anything but this horrible "universal telepathic manipulation of everyone in the whole galaxy" plot device they went with.
Also should've toned down the whole "all events in this movie were his plan all long" part a bit - should've made it a bit of a struggle for him! Show some parts where the good guys could've succeeded in stopping him, but somehow didn't - that would've also added some additional layers to the Hitler parallel.
I mean, the guy who got thrown down the shaft by a giant robot, because he was so mad and angry at Luke for a couple of minutes? That guy had been the screenwriter of the universe for decades?
Please. Make him very powerful, but not God-like - that only creates problems.
Bingowings
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Magister Pontifex MaximusThat again is why I like the idea of Dooku being a Cassandra.
If the Jedi had listened to him they could have defeated Palpatine but they chose to fight him.
In the current version it wouldn't have mattered which side had won.
Palpatine would win or Sidious would win which sounds kind of fun on paper but ultimately is a bit of a damp squib if you take the saga as a single text, with tragic roads not taken.
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twooffour
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That would've been cool.
Although in terms of edting and "slight" alterations, probably less like Cassandra, and more like Kiefer Sutherland from Dark City... you know... trying to warn against the bad guy, but then turning around and doing his bidding whenever he's watched :)
Bingowings
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Magister Pontifex MaximusI really prefer him trying to warn the good guys but they are manipulated into not believing him.
It seems more tragic.
The relationship you describe would be even easier to edit as he would basically be pretending to be a Sith until he could find a way to expose the truth while his 'Master' was pretending to go along with it which essentially the relationship they have already but taken down a notch.
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twooffour
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Well yea, and his credibility ALSO sinks by him behaving like a bad guy all the time ;)
But there are many possibilities.
ToscheStation
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TV's Frink said:
twooffour said:
It's worthy to note, however, that the Windu vs. Palpatine duel had next to no acrobatics (only one short frame of CG Palps doing some frog flip against a desk), and it was one of the most tense, intense duels in the prequels.
All of Palpatine's terrible facial expressions would like a "word" with you.
lol.
TV's Frink said: "The Titanic would like a word with you."
make that two "would like a word with you" references.......
....hmmm, sounds familiar.
lordsidi
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The whole "clouding minds" idea was stupid to begin with.
He could've been able to shield himself from easy detection, or maybe play tricks on people here and there, but that's fucking it....excuse me,but I remember well in the ROTJ novel where the say after the Emperor's death,the Imperial Fleet lost it's cohesiveness and without his extreme will focused on his forces they were routed. I would say that if he had the power to influence his fleet he would be able to cloud the jedi from knowing who he really was.
ToscheStation
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lordsidi said:
The whole "clouding minds" idea was stupid to begin with.
He could've been able to shield himself from easy detection, or maybe play tricks on people here and there, but that's fucking it....excuse me,but I remember well in the ROTJ novel where the say after the Emperor's death,the Imperial Fleet lost it's cohesiveness and without his extreme will focused on his forces they were routed. I would say that if he had the power to influence his fleet he would be able to cloud the jedi from knowing who he really was.
his "fleet" = "regular joes" aka non-Jedi
vs.
Jedi
the "cloud equation" does not compute
lordsidi
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What Palpatine/Sidious did in the PT was "disguise" his true self and motives from the Jedi,who by the way had their hands pretty full with the Clone wars,even with that in AOTC I believe Yoda felt an uneasiness with the chancellor,and in ROTS before Anakin tells Mace that Palpatine WAS a Sith Lord,Mace said "the dark side of the force surrounds the chancellor." The dark side's power gives different abilities than the light side...ex. Force Lightning and in the case of sith lord Sidious,powerful mind manipulation.
TV's Frink
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Ointment Flytwooffour said:
TV's Frink said:
twooffour said:
It's worthy to note, however, that the Windu vs. Palpatine duel had next to no acrobatics (only one short frame of CG Palps doing some frog flip against a desk), and it was one of the most tense, intense duels in the prequels.
All of Palpatine's terrible facial expressions would like a "word" with you.
Ironically, I had this very same exchange at the RLM boards, where I brought up how I liked the duel, and then someone increduously posted a series of silly facial expressions from both actors :D
My opinion is that they don't look terrible or silly when in the movie - you could say that about Palpatine, but he looks so damn evil and threatening at the same time, that it kinda stops mattering :)
My opinion is that it looks terrible in motion too.
TV's Frink
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Ointment FlyToscheStation said:
TV's Frink said:
twooffour said:
It's worthy to note, however, that the Windu vs. Palpatine duel had next to no acrobatics (only one short frame of CG Palps doing some frog flip against a desk), and it was one of the most tense, intense duels in the prequels.
All of Palpatine's terrible facial expressions would like a "word" with you.
lol.
TV's Frink said: "The Titanic would like a word with you."
make that two "would like a word with you" references.......
....hmmm, sounds familiar.
I never claimed I don't recycle jokes.
twooffour
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TV's Frink said:
twooffour said:
TV's Frink said:
twooffour said:
It's worthy to note, however, that the Windu vs. Palpatine duel had next to no acrobatics (only one short frame of CG Palps doing some frog flip against a desk), and it was one of the most tense, intense duels in the prequels.
All of Palpatine's terrible facial expressions would like a "word" with you.
Ironically, I had this very same exchange at the RLM boards, where I brought up how I liked the duel, and then someone increduously posted a series of silly facial expressions from both actors :D
My opinion is that they don't look terrible or silly when in the movie - you could say that about Palpatine, but he looks so damn evil and threatening at the same time, that it kinda stops mattering :)My opinion is that it looks terrible in motion too.
Well mine isn't ;)
Bingowings
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Magister Pontifex MaximusPlease (and I don't care who is reading this) could you please put the vendetta posts on the Off Topic forum where we can enjoy them in one place.
All this Star Wars Discussion stuff is spoiling the fun and making it more difficult to track the hilarious internet slapstick.
It's a bit like watching a PT style lightsaber duel, when you want to see an OT style one instead :-)
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TV's Frink
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Ointment FlyI know what you are saying, Bingo. But just to be clear, I really do hate the faces McDirmind (sp?) makes during that duel. It gets even worse when he's fighting Yoda in the Senate chamber.
twooffour
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TV's Frink said:
I know what you are saying, Bingo. But just to be clear, I really do hate the faces McDirmind (sp?) makes during that duel. It gets even worse when he's fighting Yoda in the Senate chamber.
Heh, to me that's where the real awesome begins :D
canofhumdingers
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Doesn't know how to handle his new-found fametwooffour said:
With regard to the swordfighting clips here, can I ask those with some knowledge a question: could it be that, basically, the fights in movies go on for longer without injury because... it's an idealized world and everyone there is simply MILES BETTER than most, or anyone, in real life?
They can actually deflect all the fast moves and tricks without getting injured... the guys in the first clip can't last a second because, ultimately, they couldn't foresee or react to at least one move.
While I suppose that's possible, it's not really all that believable. The guys in the video are literally some of THE very best in the world. It's really impossible to describe just how insanely good they are without actually training in the sport and practicing with someone who's at that level. And, yes, those guys ARE capable of stopping/deflecting many attacks and tricks & are using many tricks of their own. Even so, the fights still usually only last for a few seconds before someone gets cut badly. You've got to remeber that japanese fighting, in praticular, is essentially people facing off with 3 foot long razor blades... It's not going to take long for someone to get cut, no matter how good they are... In my mind, lightsabers would be even MORE dangerous than a katana. I mean, they don't even have the most basic of handguard....
And if you consider that the guys in the video are modern sportsmen who no longer live & die by the sword, and then consider how much better real samurai must've been when their life depended on it day in & day out, and then consider the history that most real fights ended just as quickly as modern kendo boughts (often with the result of both parties maimed or dead), then the argument that the people in the movies are "just so much better than the guys in the real world" starts to fall apart (at least for me).
It becomes a point of just how far can you suspend your disbelief? I would relate it to jumping ability of the Jedi. In ESB & ROTJ, we see that Luke, as he progresses in his jedi training, gains the ability to jump higher, farther, and faster than normal humans. He has become superhuman. But it's not "MILES" farther... It's enough to clearly be beyond the ability of real people, but not so much that it becomes totally unbelievable. Cut to the prequels where we now have Jedi jumping like frogs so far and high that it becomes utterly laughable. They pushed the boundaries too far & it results in destroying the credibility of anything on screen. I submit that the sword fights suffer the same problem.
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anothe example of lucas changing things to appeal to a new generation lightsaber dueling styles of OT vs PT