zombie84 said:

 Which "original" vision are people talking about? His original vision when he first started it? It was called Flash Gordon, and it eventually was released in 1980 from another director. Or how about his vision when he first wrote a story called The Star Wars? In that case, it's an outer space remake of Hidden Fortress. Or how about his first screenplay? That would be a combination of the two previous remakes, with Han as a green alien with gills, Luke Skywalker a 60-year old General, and Princess Leia a 14 year old girl, with a human General Darth Vader and an Emperor Cos Dashit. Or do they mean some arbitrary other screenplay down the line--perhaps the second or third drafts from 1975? Or do they mean his "original vision" at the time of the start of photography--well, that was released in 1977, faithful to the screenplay and with Lucas having final cut. Actually, scratch that, he re-wrote during filming--the "original vision" version would have to change the last name of Luke to Starkiller and have Ben Kenobi survive, thus necessitating removing his ghost from the sequels and explaining where he went after Episode IV. He'd have to overdub all mentions of "Skywalker" in the prequels and sequels as well, since that wasn't his original vision. And hmm, doesn't Vader have his helmet off in a conference scene in the shooting script, guess he wasn't all scared up from lava at that time, have to re-film ROTS' ending.

Ironically, the "vision" that 1997 and 2004 (and 2011/etc.) Special Editions represent are not "original" in any sort of pre-release sense. It's actually the complete opposite of original. If you want to see the film Lucas originally envisioned, you can't, because it was never made. If you want to see the film Lucas originally made, go watch the GOUT. This nonesense about an "original vision" Special Edition is total double-speak.

Sir, I've never made any secret of my great respect for your work.  With that in mind;  the statement above may be one of my favorite things you've ever written. 

It very clearly and succinctly gets to the heart of what I dislike even more than not being able to own a great version of the original 1977 film.  That would be the now largely accepted myth of Lucas having an Original Vision. 

It's bullshit. We all know it's bullshit, it can easily be proven with past interviews as bullshit, and the constantly & still changing releases prove it's bullshit.  Yet it's still somehow being touted as fact by people who, for reasons beyond my understanding, want it to be true. How many times does it have to be proven to be a lie before they accept the fact that it's a lie?

I've been working on a topic\post asking for help from the board with regard to a TFN(ish) co-worker who has bought the lies.  A link to your post will be sent to her email soon. She's open to the truth, by the way, so my post asking for advice is soon to be made.

zombie84 said:

Which "original" vision are people talking about? His original vision when he first started it? It was called Flash Gordon, and it eventually was released in 1980 from another director. Or how about his vision when he first wrote a story called The Star Wars? In that case, it's an outer space remake of Hidden Fortress. Or how about his first screenplay? That would be a combination of the two previous remakes, with Han as a green alien with gills, Luke Skywalker a 60-year old General, and Princess Leia a 14 year old girl, with a human General Darth Vader and an Emperor Cos Dashit. Or do they mean some arbitrary other screenplay down the line--perhaps the second or third drafts from 1975? Or do they mean his "original vision" at the time of the start of photography--well, that was released in 1977, faithful to the screenplay and with Lucas having final cut. Actually, scratch that, he re-wrote during filming--the "original vision" version would have to change the last name of Luke to Starkiller and have Ben Kenobi survive, thus necessitating removing his ghost from the sequels and explaining where he went after Episode IV. He'd have to overdub all mentions of "Skywalker" in the prequels and sequels as well, since that wasn't his original vision. And hmm, doesn't Vader have his helmet off in a conference scene in the shooting script, guess he wasn't all scared up from lava at that time, have to re-film ROTS' ending.

Ironically, the "vision" that 1997 and 2004 (and 2011/etc.) Special Editions represent are not "original" in any sort of pre-release sense. It's actually the complete opposite of original. If you want to see the film Lucas originally envisioned, you can't, because it was never made. If you want to see the film Lucas originally made, go watch the GOUT. This nonsense about an "original vision" Special Edition is total double-speak.

I am sooo putting that on a T-shirt

greenpenguino said:

zombie84 said:

Which "original" vision are people talking about? His original vision when he first started it? It was called Flash Gordon, and it eventually was released in 1980 from another director. Or how about his vision when he first wrote a story called The Star Wars? In that case, it's an outer space remake of Hidden Fortress. Or how about his first screenplay? That would be a combination of the two previous remakes, with Han as a green alien with gills, Luke Skywalker a 60-year old General, and Princess Leia a 14 year old girl, with a human General Darth Vader and an Emperor Cos Dashit. Or do they mean some arbitrary other screenplay down the line--perhaps the second or third drafts from 1975? Or do they mean his "original vision" at the time of the start of photography--well, that was released in 1977, faithful to the screenplay and with Lucas having final cut. Actually, scratch that, he re-wrote during filming--the "original vision" version would have to change the last name of Luke to Starkiller and have Ben Kenobi survive, thus necessitating removing his ghost from the sequels and explaining where he went after Episode IV. He'd have to overdub all mentions of "Skywalker" in the prequels and sequels as well, since that wasn't his original vision. And hmm, doesn't Vader have his helmet off in a conference scene in the shooting script, guess he wasn't all scared up from lava at that time, have to re-film ROTS' ending.

Ironically, the "vision" that 1997 and 2004 (and 2011/etc.) Special Editions represent are not "original" in any sort of pre-release sense. It's actually the complete opposite of original. If you want to see the film Lucas originally envisioned, you can't, because it was never made. If you want to see the film Lucas originally made, go watch the GOUT. This nonsense about an "original vision" Special Edition is total double-speak.

I am sooo putting that on a T-shirt

Better use an XXXXXL ;-)

TV's Frink said:

greenpenguino said:

zombie84 said:

Which "original" vision are people talking about? His original vision when he first started it? It was called Flash Gordon, and it eventually was released in 1980 from another director. Or how about his vision when he first wrote a story called The Star Wars? In that case, it's an outer space remake of Hidden Fortress. Or how about his first screenplay? That would be a combination of the two previous remakes, with Han as a green alien with gills, Luke Skywalker a 60-year old General, and Princess Leia a 14 year old girl, with a human General Darth Vader and an Emperor Cos Dashit. Or do they mean some arbitrary other screenplay down the line--perhaps the second or third drafts from 1975? Or do they mean his "original vision" at the time of the start of photography--well, that was released in 1977, faithful to the screenplay and with Lucas having final cut. Actually, scratch that, he re-wrote during filming--the "original vision" version would have to change the last name of Luke to Starkiller and have Ben Kenobi survive, thus necessitating removing his ghost from the sequels and explaining where he went after Episode IV. He'd have to overdub all mentions of "Skywalker" in the prequels and sequels as well, since that wasn't his original vision. And hmm, doesn't Vader have his helmet off in a conference scene in the shooting script, guess he wasn't all scared up from lava at that time, have to re-film ROTS' ending.

Ironically, the "vision" that 1997 and 2004 (and 2011/etc.) Special Editions represent are not "original" in any sort of pre-release sense. It's actually the complete opposite of original. If you want to see the film Lucas originally envisioned, you can't, because it was never made. If you want to see the film Lucas originally made, go watch the GOUT. This nonsense about an "original vision" Special Edition is total double-speak.

I am sooo putting that on a T-shirt

Better use an XXXXXL ;-)

Oh.

I see what you did there...

Maybe sometime someone will document Lucas destruction and burying of the oot over time, in a documentary or in writing.

I personally no longer care, and don't have the time or credibility to do so.

Yet you had time to type a post about it?

Adium said:

CP3S said:

greenpenguino said:

This is true. I did kinda do this on the train home. My ringtone used to be Mark Hamil's line 'It's lucky you don't taste very good' (I had it because of a joke some friends and I made when talking about SEs.) Then two young kids (Not little kids, they were 12-13) came up to me recognizing Hamil's voice and asked me where it was from. When I told them it was from empire they laughed, telling me I was an idiot because that line wasn't in empire because they knew every line or something. They talked about 'Lucas' Vision' and the prequels being amazing because of Yoda's Light-sabre fights.

I then (kinda angrily, I don't like being called an idiot, certainly not by ignorant prequelite children) 'told' them that I was a film student (which I am), about the O-OT, problems with SE and the stupidity of the prequels .etc. Long story short, I made one of them cry and they ran off.

(I don't mean to sound like a horrible ass-hole on the train that picks fights with kids, but the two children were so unpleasant and their views so 'warped' that I felt an obligation to 'correct' them.)

 

 

(Sorry if I sound like a complete asshole)

This makes me makes me think of the "Mortal Kombat is the best game ever!" scene in Billy Madison. Hehe, good stuff.

"I disagree. It is a very good game, but I think Donkey Kong is the best game ever."

The best game ever is Bala Kerplunk!

Get my pal Bala drunk enough to foolishly fall asleep in your house and then take turns to assemble an elaborate structure of small loose objects around and over him (including Star Wars items to remain on topic) trying not to wake him.

If he wakes up he will knock the whole towering edifice down in startled bewilderment.

For 2 or more players, Bala not included.

Battletoads FTW.

CP3S said:

Hmm, so looking back earlier in this thread to the link regarding Lucas's speech before congress... does anyone else ever get an ever so slight and unrealistic suspicion that Lucas is really on our side and is just dead set on taking this thing as far as he can to prove what can happen when there are no safeguards to prevent films from alterations?

I like to think he plans on continually adding more and more changes to the films waiting for some sensible cry of "Wait a minute!" coming from more than just the tiny voices in the distance that nobody cares about. I like to think he reads TF.n and dies a little inside each time, maybe he has even been banned from TF.n several times when he breaks down and can't hold in his true feelings any longer and expresses himself behind the anonymity of the internet. I like to think he has some extremely well preserved and remastered versions of the originals, the ones he makes his kids watch, locked safely away in a vault waiting for the day when the fecal matter hits the air conditioner and he can say, "Hey, told you so!" and release them...

Why yes, I do have a very active imagination. Why do you ask?

I guess Katie Lucas wouldn't like me very much...  :(

EDIT:  Welp, I guess I'll just have to get over that!

CP3S said:

Brainwashed Bitch.

Fixed.

What, did you expect her to not be annoyed when people bug her about her dad's work?

Careful though, or she might get her older sister to come by and beat the shit out of you. She's MMA.

Tobar said:

I wish that were true. I couldn't find it, twitter doesn't keep tweets for very long,

twister111 tweeted:

http://twitter.com/#!/thetwist111/status/27575040338

@YouControlTV @tristancouvares few days watcher first time tweeter. Complete tweet n00b. Hope it's right. I spam voted Dove for you tristan!

Are people actually bugging her personally about it, or she just hates hearing about it in general? Context is everything.

People really ought to leave George's kids out of this mess in any case. Katie's work on the Clone Wars is the only thing that could be considered "fair game".

CP3S said:

Bitch.

Wait, is she the one who could kick my ass?

Edit:

zombie84 said:

Careful though, or she might get her older sister to come by and beat the shit out of you. She's MMA.

I guess not.

Tobar said:

CP3S said:

I like to think he has some extremely well preserved and remastered versions of the originals, the ones he makes his kids watch

I wish that were true. I couldn't find it, twitter doesn't keep tweets for very long, but a few months back Katie Lucas actually tweeted how angry she gets when she hears fans say that Han shot first.