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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ :: 1 > 4
Ingo Sucks
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
When I first got the 2004 DVDs, I didn't know anything about the hatred towards the SE. I was just glad I finally got the OT on DVD, and actually supported the SE. When I saw the new emperor in ESB, I though "good". I actually thought this was a change made in 1997! And then when I was coming up to the spirit scene, I was thinking "They need to replace that old guy with the new Anakin...". Then the new Anakin appears and I think "Whew! What a relief." Once again, I thought this was a change made in 1997, and thought they used a different young actor for the new Anakin. I actually thought Sebastian Shaw was the kid's name! And then I went online and my eyes were opened. I realised how many people booed Hayden in ROTJ and discovered all the hatred over the SE. So I quickly turned over the leaf and became an OOT fan, which is why I'm now part of this site. I still like the SE and think it ties in the OT better with the prequels like it should be, but I've heard the cry of the original fans, so I need to support them.
Just thought I'd share this story. Now what was your reaction?
Just thought I'd share this story. Now what was your reaction?
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Gaffer Tape
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Imagination Princess
Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
Immediate revulsion and disbelief. I printed out the news story I first read it in (I think it was CNN), and I complained to anybody who would listen.
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C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don't exist... then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks... and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming... Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
Sluggo
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
I was praying that it was just an unfunny rumor. Then the pictures popped up on the net, which everyone was hoping were fakes. Then the DVD. Then sadness.
Regardless of whether or not one likes the change or not, the big thing that bugs me about the scene is the fact that they would only change one of the characters and not all three. I certianly wouldn't like to see all 3 changed, but if George has to make the change, at least it wouldn't look so d@mned bizarre. Or atleast have 3 old versions and morph then into their young counterparts.
But I just wish they were left alone.
Regardless of whether or not one likes the change or not, the big thing that bugs me about the scene is the fact that they would only change one of the characters and not all three. I certianly wouldn't like to see all 3 changed, but if George has to make the change, at least it wouldn't look so d@mned bizarre. Or atleast have 3 old versions and morph then into their young counterparts.
But I just wish they were left alone.
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Mr Bungle
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
I didnt know, I watched Jedi as normal and I got a shock when he appeared, I will always love the OOT but I didnt mind the 97 SE or the 2004 DVDs despite a few changes I wasnt keen on too much, really til that point, this was when I finally had enough.
Blackjack
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
This was my first reaction when I saw the leaked video
"that can't be the final version."
but when it was, my new reaction was "LUCAS, YOU SON OF A BITCH!"
"that can't be the final version."
but when it was, my new reaction was "LUCAS, YOU SON OF A BITCH!"
canofhumdingers
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
My reaction to finding out about this and the other changes (& more importantly, the complete lack of the OOT) was to hop on ebay, purchase a double-sided laserdisc player & the Definitive Collection, and boycott all DVD releases of the "special" editions. (I must confess, i do own the prequels on dvd, & i just may pick up this newest release for the bonus discs, but i haven't made up my mind yet).
Scruffy
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
Shaw's is the face behind the mask of Vader. Except for David Prowse, who is actually the face behind the mask, but you know what I mean. Seeing that face restored, happy, approving of his son, in communion with his mentor ... there's a lot of strong feelings there. He has been in a dark place for twenty years, but he's found his way home, and his friends were waiting for him.
Hayden's is the face of pride, resentment, and foolishness. The prequel trilogy spent four hours linking these attributes with that face, prepping us to dislike him. When I look into that face in Jedi, I don't know what he's thinking or feeling. He has no camaraderie with the geriatrics he's hanging out with, that's for sure; he's more like a bad child who avoided a scolding by flashing his puppy-dog eyes at his parents.
To answer your question, I think Ronnie summed it up pretty well: "There he goes again."
Hayden's is the face of pride, resentment, and foolishness. The prequel trilogy spent four hours linking these attributes with that face, prepping us to dislike him. When I look into that face in Jedi, I don't know what he's thinking or feeling. He has no camaraderie with the geriatrics he's hanging out with, that's for sure; he's more like a bad child who avoided a scolding by flashing his puppy-dog eyes at his parents.
To answer your question, I think Ronnie summed it up pretty well: "There he goes again."
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Darth_Evil
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
Originally posted by: Scruffy
Shaw's is the face behind the mask of Vader. Except for David Prowse, who is actually the face behind the mask, but you know what I mean. Seeing that face restored, happy, approving of his son, in communion with his mentor ... there's a lot of strong feelings there. He has been in a dark place for twenty years, but he's found his way home, and his friends were waiting for him.
Hayden's is the face of pride, resentment, and foolishness. The prequel trilogy spent four hours linking these attributes with that face, prepping us to dislike him. When I look into that face in Jedi, I don't know what he's thinking or feeling. He has no camaraderie with the geriatrics he's hanging out with, that's for sure; he's more like a bad child who avoided a scolding by flashing his puppy-dog eyes at his parents.
To answer your question, I think Ronnie summed it up pretty well: "There he goes again."
Shaw's is the face behind the mask of Vader. Except for David Prowse, who is actually the face behind the mask, but you know what I mean. Seeing that face restored, happy, approving of his son, in communion with his mentor ... there's a lot of strong feelings there. He has been in a dark place for twenty years, but he's found his way home, and his friends were waiting for him.
Hayden's is the face of pride, resentment, and foolishness. The prequel trilogy spent four hours linking these attributes with that face, prepping us to dislike him. When I look into that face in Jedi, I don't know what he's thinking or feeling. He has no camaraderie with the geriatrics he's hanging out with, that's for sure; he's more like a bad child who avoided a scolding by flashing his puppy-dog eyes at his parents.
To answer your question, I think Ronnie summed it up pretty well: "There he goes again."
Right you are. You can see that, through all the turmoil he went through, Anakin could finally be the man he was meant to be in the end of ROTJ. He achieved old age along with his friends, and was proud of Luke like everyone else. That's why Hayden being there was so stupid. He looks nervous, or like he's a little preocupied, while the other two look proudly at Luke, saying "Thank you" silently. And when Shaw was in that see, you could just see the gratitude and proudness flowing out of him. Not with Hayden. He almost looks like he's laughing at it all.
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Gaffer Tape
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Imagination Princess
Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
Yeah, they did use some weird footage of Hayden. I mean, there's the embarrassed grin and then looking down at his shoes, and then off in the opposite direction. Yeah, I really feel like he's a part of this scene. Whereas, originally, Sebastian shared a look with Obi-Wan, which does the heart good, and then he beams proudly at his son. No comparison.
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C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don't exist... then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks... and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming... Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
ADigitalMan
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
I was creeped out, frankly. Absolutely creeped out.
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BigBlueRig
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
It bothered me seeing it just because it was pointless.
It didnt need to be done....but it was.
It didnt need to be done....but it was.
ESHBG
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
Well I too heard about it and saw the pics but I thought it was merely a rumor....a sick, twisted rumor. But I didn't open my '04 set until I got confirmation, and once I did and found out it was totally true (sadly), I marched it right back to the store and returned it for a full refund. I haven't purchased anything with the '04 SEs in it since, including the 09/12 release....nor will I ever unless it contains a PROPER OUT version.
To be honest, I could've stomached all of the other changes. Would I of rather had the OUT? Of course! But Hayden at the end of ROTJ totally ended it for me, and put the final nail in the coffin. Not only was it totally pointless but IMO, it completely disrespects Shaw as an actor. He didn't have much screen time, but what he had he made great and BELIEVABLE; something Hayden could not pull off.
(but in all fairness to Hayden, he could not control how exactly they put his head on someone else's body)
To be honest, I could've stomached all of the other changes. Would I of rather had the OUT? Of course! But Hayden at the end of ROTJ totally ended it for me, and put the final nail in the coffin. Not only was it totally pointless but IMO, it completely disrespects Shaw as an actor. He didn't have much screen time, but what he had he made great and BELIEVABLE; something Hayden could not pull off.
(but in all fairness to Hayden, he could not control how exactly they put his head on someone else's body)
grifter
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Padawan Learner
Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
I was already pissed that the dvds were only the SEs, but the new modifications and the ghosts scene were the final insult from Lucas.
It's from there that i re-bought a LD player and became a full "anti- Lucas/prelogy/SE" guy.
It's from there that i re-bought a LD player and became a full "anti- Lucas/prelogy/SE" guy.
Sebastian Shaw = the real Anakin!
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boris
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
Originally posted by: Ingo Sucks
I actually thought this was a change made in 1997! And then when I was coming up to the spirit scene, I was thinking "They need to replace that old guy with the new Anakin...". Then the new Anakin appears and I think "Whew! What a relief."
Many SE fans actually like that change. There's no argument that Shaw was way too old to be anakin... he was older then Alec Guinness, who is supposedly 15 or so years older then anakin!
I actually thought this was a change made in 1997! And then when I was coming up to the spirit scene, I was thinking "They need to replace that old guy with the new Anakin...". Then the new Anakin appears and I think "Whew! What a relief."
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<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith
You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked
None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith
You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked
None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
canofhumdingers
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Padawan Learner
Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
yeah, but it doesn't really matter how old the actor is, it's how old he looks/is portrayed for the character. In that final shot in ROTJ, i would never know that Sebastian Shaw was older than Alec Guinness just by looking, so why does it matter? by that point Anakin would've been an older gray man just like Obi-wan anyway, so it looked fine to me & i'm willing to accept that Obi-wan was the older of the two in the movie.
BigBlueRig
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
Besides, we wouldnt know approximate ages if it werent for the prequels anyways...and thats the thing that many of us are trying to forget.
ESHBG
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
Another thing I want to add is Lucas' excuses for doing that, and how silly they are. You know, the whole, "Darth Vader was no longer Anakin" thing. DUMB! It makes MORE sense for Shaw to be at the end because it shows that as Vader was aging, so was his good, human side and that is how Luke was able to help him redeem himself. The whole, "...there is still good in you..." thing.
Or we could just use the logical answer that says since Anakin was human and only part machine, his human side would age normally.
No matter, it is hands down one of the dumbest changes in all of the SEs.
Or we could just use the logical answer that says since Anakin was human and only part machine, his human side would age normally.
No matter, it is hands down one of the dumbest changes in all of the SEs.
Darth Lars
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
The first time I saw the screenshots of the new Emperor and Anakin at the end of ROTJ, I believed them both to be just "photoshopped" pics made by fans, either as hoaxes, silly speculation or some fanboyish/fangirlish wishes.
I thought the Emperor pic must have been a fan in a rubber mask, as it did not look enough like the Emperor in ROTJ.
I thought the Emperor pic must have been a fan in a rubber mask, as it did not look enough like the Emperor in ROTJ.
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
This question tugs at me on many levels. First, it is wrong that someone would take a classic work of art and change it 20 years later. That's why I resent the SE... it represents an artistically repulsive act. Second, I don't think that the prequels are very good movies, so modifying the OT to make it fit better with the prequels is - backwards! It's like repainting your Porsche to make it match the color of your Ford Gremlin. He ought to go back and redo the prequels so they flow better with the OT (and so they're less silly, but that's another issue).
Frankly, I think the whole problem started when he decided to make Vader be Luke's father. Too coincidental, and too complicated. From that point on, the only way to make sense of everything is to make changes. And in the process, the original Star Wars ends up being changed into a movie that just isn't as good as it was originally.
Now, that said, I watched the SE movies three times in the theatre, each. I didn't like the changes - it was all too painfully clear why the restored bits had been left on the cutting room floor by a younger and more visionary Lucas. But I went again and again because, in spite of that, it's still fun seeing Star Wars on the big screen again after all these years, and being a high school kid again.
Frankly, I think the whole problem started when he decided to make Vader be Luke's father. Too coincidental, and too complicated. From that point on, the only way to make sense of everything is to make changes. And in the process, the original Star Wars ends up being changed into a movie that just isn't as good as it was originally.
Now, that said, I watched the SE movies three times in the theatre, each. I didn't like the changes - it was all too painfully clear why the restored bits had been left on the cutting room floor by a younger and more visionary Lucas. But I went again and again because, in spite of that, it's still fun seeing Star Wars on the big screen again after all these years, and being a high school kid again.
bomma
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
This pretty much sums it up.
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Number20
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
Originally posted by: Darth Lars
The first time I saw the screenshots of the new Emperor and Anakin at the end of ROTJ, I believed them both to be just "photoshopped" pics made by fans, either as hoaxes, silly speculation or some fanboyish/fangirlish wishes.
I thought the Emperor pic must have been a fan in a rubber mask, as it did not look enough like the Emperor in ROTJ.
The first time I saw the screenshots of the new Emperor and Anakin at the end of ROTJ, I believed them both to be just "photoshopped" pics made by fans, either as hoaxes, silly speculation or some fanboyish/fangirlish wishes.
I thought the Emperor pic must have been a fan in a rubber mask, as it did not look enough like the Emperor in ROTJ.
Everyone talks about the Anakin at the end of ROTJ, but it seems like the new emperor in ESB is forgotten about. Why did they do such a lousy job with him? Did the make-up artist ever even see ROTJ? The emperor in the new ESB scene (and ROTS) looks nothing like he does in ROTJ.
Mielr
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Jedi Knight
Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
My first reaction to Hayden was- 
I mean, the SE ROTJ ending was ruined anyway with the new-age music and the multi-planet celebrations, he just put the nail in the coffin with Hayden. I had actually heard rumors about it before I saw the DVD, but I couldn't believe it when I actually saw it in front of me.
I mean, the SE ROTJ ending was ruined anyway with the new-age music and the multi-planet celebrations, he just put the nail in the coffin with Hayden. I had actually heard rumors about it before I saw the DVD, but I couldn't believe it when I actually saw it in front of me.
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BigBlueRig
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
Originally posted by: Number20
Everyone talks about the Anakin at the end of ROTJ, but it seems like the new emperor in ESB is forgotten about. Why did they do such a lousy job with him? Did the make-up artist ever even see ROTJ? The emperor in the new ESB scene (and ROTS) looks nothing like he does in ROTJ.
Originally posted by: Darth Lars
The first time I saw the screenshots of the new Emperor and Anakin at the end of ROTJ, I believed them both to be just "photoshopped" pics made by fans, either as hoaxes, silly speculation or some fanboyish/fangirlish wishes.
I thought the Emperor pic must have been a fan in a rubber mask, as it did not look enough like the Emperor in ROTJ.
The first time I saw the screenshots of the new Emperor and Anakin at the end of ROTJ, I believed them both to be just "photoshopped" pics made by fans, either as hoaxes, silly speculation or some fanboyish/fangirlish wishes.
I thought the Emperor pic must have been a fan in a rubber mask, as it did not look enough like the Emperor in ROTJ.
Everyone talks about the Anakin at the end of ROTJ, but it seems like the new emperor in ESB is forgotten about. Why did they do such a lousy job with him? Did the make-up artist ever even see ROTJ? The emperor in the new ESB scene (and ROTS) looks nothing like he does in ROTJ.
quoted for truth
ESHBG
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
Originally posted by: Mielr
I mean, the SE ROTJ ending was ruined anyway with the new-age music and the multi-planet celebrations, he just put the nail in the coffin with Hayden. I had actually heard rumors about it before I saw the DVD, but I couldn't believe it when I actually saw it in front of me.
I mean, the SE ROTJ ending was ruined anyway with the new-age music and the multi-planet celebrations, he just put the nail in the coffin with Hayden. I had actually heard rumors about it before I saw the DVD, but I couldn't believe it when I actually saw it in front of me.
"Nub Nub" will always be my favorite of course, but I have to say, I really liked the new ending music when I heard it in '97 and still do; I think John Williams did a great job and it seems very fitting to me....one of the changes I actually didn't mind at all.
Now the planet celebrations, that was another story entirely....many of them made very little sense IMO.
darkhelmet
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
When I heard the rumor, I hoped beyond hope that it wasn't true. When the rumor was confirmed, I was disgusted and not even morbidly curious; I didn't see the footage until this year, which looked completely out of place in visual tone and with HC doing that stupid "I'm-a-tough-guy-looking-out-from-under-his-brow" thing; ughh! Lucas couldn't direct traffic! 
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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ
Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ